Armagh v Cavan - Ulster Semi-final and Replay

MrMaguire2002

Well-Known Member
Interesting looking at the player ratings in the Irish News.

Four players got 8. Clarke, O'Neill, Campbell and Grimley. Everyone sees things differently but I don't think Grimley merited an 8.

The ratings were:
Hughes 6.5
Shields 7
Burns 6
Morgan 7
Hughes 7
Kennedy 6.5
Forker 6.5
Burns 6
Grimley 8
Nugent 6
Vernon 6
Hall 7
O'Neill 8
Clarke 8
Murnin 6

Subs
Campbell 8
McKay 6
Grugan 7
Crealey 6
Rafferty 6
 

armaghtimmy

Well-Known Member
Interesting looking at the player ratings in the Irish News.

Four players got 8. Clarke, O'Neill, Campbell and Grimley. Everyone sees things differently but I don't think Grimley merited an 8.

The ratings were:
Hughes 6.5
Shields 7
Burns 6
Morgan 7
Hughes 7
Kennedy 6.5
Forker 6.5
Burns 6
Grimley 8
Nugent 6
Vernon 6
Hall 7
O'Neill 8
Clarke 8
Murnin 6

Subs
Campbell 8
McKay 6
Grugan 7
Crealey 6
Rafferty 6

Wouldn't argue with much of that,7 for Grimley, 5.5 for Vernon, 7.5 for Morgan maybe. Glad Rafferty got a run and made a great mark, he'll feel a little better if nothing else
 

Jamie's Coffee

Active Member
Disappointing but we are not far off being a good team..... even a very good team.
There are a few tweaks needed no doubt, not least of which are mindsets. I think the team collectively could play with more confidence its obvious that confidence is lacking otherwise we wouldn't have lost so many leads over the last number of seasons and especially this year. I'm not going to bash management but it appears they may have reached a plateau with this squad and an injection of new ideas and energy could do wonders. Monaghan will be a massive test.
 

Seamy

Well-Known Member
Gutted about yesterday, most people on here should probably sleep on a result before coming on to spout which for the most part is rubbish.
My brief thoughts on the game were the best team won, not a 6 point better team but more like 2 or 3 without ever being in danger.

Negatives;
Forker was poor after such a good game last week, captaincy really doesn't sit well with him, lost the ball in good positions 3 times in the first half.
Ruthlessness is clearly lacking in front of goal, this is top level football and when you miss 4 one on ones you will struggle to win any semi final regardless of level or opposition. Even hand passes that should be drilled to chest were dropping short/bouncing... these one and two second delays are the difference, its all about the 1 percenters and we aren't sharp enough in this area, Donegal are experts at it, everything goes to hand and shot selection is nearly always inside the zone were you have a much higher chance of scoring.
We done have one single defender we can trust to man mark a danger man. That's a huge worry with McManus to come in 2 weeks time. I hate to say it as I dislike negative football, but we may need to drop a forward back and double team him, who I don't no.
Not big on kicking management, they pick the team based on what they see etc, just on the changes I thought Vernon got 5 mins too long on the pitch and Nugent should have been given to half time. He had to pass that goal chance to Andy for a simple punch to the net.
I could go on but.....

Positives;
Campbell was great, Grugan had a bit of aggression and its more game time in the legs for Andy/Burns. That can only be a good thing
Donaghy will come back in refreshed, and Burns will be ready next day
Fair play to Morgan, lot of haters on here but had a very good game yesterday, just needs to repeat the dose against Monaghan.
Clarke was superb, carried the fight alone, gliding past men like old, could watch him all day in that form.
Monaghan are at the weakest they have been in about 6 years, we can take them if we get the match ups right. I think if we get on top early they could implode.

Finally well done to Cavan, excellent shooting yesterday and over the two games just come out on top, Donegal will win the final by 6 or more I think however, the difference in pace between how they break and how yesterdays teams break is frightening.

Beat Monaghan and a day later Donegal hammer Cavan, we will all be on here saying it was a blessing in disguise losing yesterday.

Hard to disagree with anything here. Soupy looked to have great energy in the legs and his penetrating runs were great to see, something we nearly need to see a bit more of from around the MF area.

Jarly Og still a bit naive and headless. Runs in to a lot of traffic with the ball and goes to ground then. Made one Hollywood fetch in the second half but didn't contribute otherwise. That being said, he obviously wasn't 100% and is still 21. The media coverage and calls for him to be a captain etc were a bit overwhelming no doubt, particularly after 2 USFC appearances.

Worst game Aidan has played in a long time, decision making was extremely questionable at times. But again, he'll learn from it.

Murnin and Paddy Burns have vital minutes in the legs and if we're to progress this year, they'll be vital. Burns was our standout Corner Back 9 months ago and was lauded as the next Andy Mallon, one average game on Cavan's star man and his thrown on the scrap heap. Some serious rose tinted glasses and short sightedness from some quarters. Having watched The Sunday Game, that last ball seemed to get caught under his feet rather than shying out.


Gutted about yesterday, most people on here should probably sleep on a result before coming on to spout which for the most part is rubbish.
My brief thoughts on the game were the best team won, not a 6 point better team but more like 2 or 3 without ever being in danger.

Negatives;
Forker was poor after such a good game last week, captaincy really doesn't sit well with him, lost the ball in good positions 3 times in the first half.
Ruthlessness is clearly lacking in front of goal, this is top level football and when you miss 4 one on ones you will struggle to win any semi final regardless of level or opposition. Even hand passes that should be drilled to chest were dropping short/bouncing... these one and two second delays are the difference, its all about the 1 percenters and we aren't sharp enough in this area, Donegal are experts at it, everything goes to hand and shot selection is nearly always inside the zone were you have a much higher chance of scoring.
We done have one single defender we can trust to man mark a danger man. That's a huge worry with McManus to come in 2 weeks time. I hate to say it as I dislike negative football, but we may need to drop a forward back and double team him, who I don't no.
Not big on kicking management, they pick the team based on what they see etc, just on the changes I thought Vernon got 5 mins too long on the pitch and Nugent should have been given to half time. He had to pass that goal chance to Andy for a simple punch to the net.
I could go on but.....

Positives;
Campbell was great, Grugan had a bit of aggression and its more game time in the legs for Andy/Burns. That can only be a good thing
Donaghy will come back in refreshed, and Burns will be ready next day
Fair play to Morgan, lot of haters on here but had a very good game yesterday, just needs to repeat the dose against Monaghan.
Clarke was superb, carried the fight alone, gliding past men like old, could watch him all day in that form.
Monaghan are at the weakest they have been in about 6 years, we can take them if we get the match ups right. I think if we get on top early they could implode.

Finally well done to Cavan, excellent shooting yesterday and over the two games just come out on top, Donegal will win the final by 6 or more I think however, the difference in pace between how they break and how yesterdays teams break is frightening.

Beat Monaghan and a day later Donegal hammer Cavan, we will all be on here saying it was a blessing in disguise losing yesterday.

Really good and accurate reflection on yesterday's game.

Aidan Forker had his worst game in an Armagh jersey. Decision making was poor and probably cost us 3 scores. That being said, he'll be hungry the next day which can only be a positive.

Soupy looked very strong, and his penetrating runs caused serious damage. Would like to see a bit more powerful running from around midfield from Half Forwards and Mid Fielders too.

Jarly Og struggled badly and showed naivety at times. Tended to run in to the tackle and get smothered when in possession, ultimately ending up on the deck. Made on Hollywood fetch however. Clearly wasn't right on the day and the media coverage and calls for captaincy for a 21 year old with 2 USFC appearances are a bit premature and probably didn't help mentally.

Great to get key minutes in the legs of Andy Murnin and Paddy Burns. Murnin did show glimpses of what he's capable of with a nice flick down in the 2nd half and will have only improved after yesterday. Burns had an average day when marking Cavan's Star Man. Made some good dispossessions but was gotten the better of on the day. 9 months ago he was our best defenfer and was being lauded as the next Andy Mallon. 1 National League appearance didn't help his cause but it's extremely short sighted to throw him on the scrap heap after one average performance. On The Sunday Game, that ball at the end seems to get caught underfoot and ended in a Cavan score at a vital time, mistakes happen.

Donaghy was a huge loss and his return will be vital, he's a calming influence on the younger lads on the team and his maturity can't be underestimated.

Blaine, like I said yesterday, is struggling. A good lad and trying hard but just finding it difficult. Would be great to have a recognised keeper at 16 even to put some pressure on him at training, without competition for places it definitely leads to a sense of complacency which is good for nobody.

I think we've a good chance against a weather beaten, aging Monaghan team and both players and Management will want this one badly. Keep the Faith.
 

William Of Orange

Well-Known Member
Hard to disagree with anything here. Soupy looked to have great energy in the legs and his penetrating runs were great to see, something we nearly need to see a bit more of from around the MF area.

Jarly Og still a bit naive and headless. Runs in to a lot of traffic with the ball and goes to ground then. Made one Hollywood fetch in the second half but didn't contribute otherwise. That being said, he obviously wasn't 100% and is still 21. The media coverage and calls for him to be a captain etc were a bit overwhelming no doubt, particularly after 2 USFC appearances.

Worst game Aidan has played in a long time, decision making was extremely questionable at times. But again, he'll learn from it.

Murnin and Paddy Burns have vital minutes in the legs and if we're to progress this year, they'll be vital. Burns was our standout Corner Back 9 months ago and was lauded as the next Andy Mallon, one average game on Cavan's star man and his thrown on the scrap heap. Some serious rose tinted glasses and short sightedness from some quarters. Having watched The Sunday Game, that last ball seemed to get caught under his feet rather than shying out.




Really good and accurate reflection on yesterday's game.

Aidan Forker had his worst game in an Armagh jersey. Decision making was poor and probably cost us 3 scores. That being said, he'll be hungry the next day which can only be a positive.

Soupy looked very strong, and his penetrating runs caused serious damage. Would like to see a bit more powerful running from around midfield from Half Forwards and Mid Fielders too.

Jarly Og struggled badly and showed naivety at times. Tended to run in to the tackle and get smothered when in possession, ultimately ending up on the deck. Made on Hollywood fetch however. Clearly wasn't right on the day and the media coverage and calls for captaincy for a 21 year old with 2 USFC appearances are a bit premature and probably didn't help mentally.

Great to get key minutes in the legs of Andy Murnin and Paddy Burns. Murnin did show glimpses of what he's capable of with a nice flick down in the 2nd half and will have only improved after yesterday. Burns had an average day when marking Cavan's Star Man. Made some good dispossessions but was gotten the better of on the day. 9 months ago he was our best defenfer and was being lauded as the next Andy Mallon. 1 National League appearance didn't help his cause but it's extremely short sighted to throw him on the scrap heap after one average performance. On The Sunday Game, that ball at the end seems to get caught underfoot and ended in a Cavan score at a vital time, mistakes happen.

Donaghy was a huge loss and his return will be vital, he's a calming influence on the younger lads on the team and his maturity can't be underestimated.

Blaine, like I said yesterday, is struggling. A good lad and trying hard but just finding it difficult. Would be great to have a recognised keeper at 16 even to put some pressure on him at training, without competition for places it definitely leads to a sense of complacency which is good for nobody.

I think we've a good chance against a weather beaten, aging Monaghan team and both players and Management will want this one badly. Keep the Faith.

I don't think anyone doubts P Burns ability and your right he was the best defender we had last year , he was outstanding in Mullingar but he needs to stop the mouthing at opponents , I noticed it a number of times and I have very rarely called out a player on here over the years , but I hate to see it especially a player wearing our jersey .
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
Hard to disagree with anything here. Soupy looked to have great energy in the legs and his penetrating runs were great to see, something we nearly need to see a bit more of from around the MF area.

Jarly Og still a bit naive and headless. Runs in to a lot of traffic with the ball and goes to ground then. Made one Hollywood fetch in the second half but didn't contribute otherwise. That being said, he obviously wasn't 100% and is still 21. The media coverage and calls for him to be a captain etc were a bit overwhelming no doubt, particularly after 2 USFC appearances.

Worst game Aidan has played in a long time, decision making was extremely questionable at times. But again, he'll learn from it.

Murnin and Paddy Burns have vital minutes in the legs and if we're to progress this year, they'll be vital. Burns was our standout Corner Back 9 months ago and was lauded as the next Andy Mallon, one average game on Cavan's star man and his thrown on the scrap heap. Some serious rose tinted glasses and short sightedness from some quarters. Having watched The Sunday Game, that last ball seemed to get caught under his feet rather than shying out.




Really good and accurate reflection on yesterday's game.

Aidan Forker had his worst game in an Armagh jersey. Decision making was poor and probably cost us 3 scores. That being said, he'll be hungry the next day which can only be a positive.

Soupy looked very strong, and his penetrating runs caused serious damage. Would like to see a bit more powerful running from around midfield from Half Forwards and Mid Fielders too.

Jarly Og struggled badly and showed naivety at times. Tended to run in to the tackle and get smothered when in possession, ultimately ending up on the deck. Made on Hollywood fetch however. Clearly wasn't right on the day and the media coverage and calls for captaincy for a 21 year old with 2 USFC appearances are a bit premature and probably didn't help mentally.

Great to get key minutes in the legs of Andy Murnin and Paddy Burns. Murnin did show glimpses of what he's capable of with a nice flick down in the 2nd half and will have only improved after yesterday. Burns had an average day when marking Cavan's Star Man. Made some good dispossessions but was gotten the better of on the day. 9 months ago he was our best defenfer and was being lauded as the next Andy Mallon. 1 National League appearance didn't help his cause but it's extremely short sighted to throw him on the scrap heap after one average performance. On The Sunday Game, that ball at the end seems to get caught underfoot and ended in a Cavan score at a vital time, mistakes happen.

Donaghy was a huge loss and his return will be vital, he's a calming influence on the younger lads on the team and his maturity can't be underestimated.

Blaine, like I said yesterday, is struggling. A good lad and trying hard but just finding it difficult. Would be great to have a recognised keeper at 16 even to put some pressure on him at training, without competition for places it definitely leads to a sense of complacency which is good for nobody.

I think we've a good chance against a weather beaten, aging Monaghan team and both players and Management will want this one badly. Keep the Faith.
The ball might have got caught under his foot. Before that he hesitated on going for it. He pulled out of it and that’s poor from him
 

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
All said and covered except I think (and it's only an opinion so don't shoot me) it's time we chased the management team and got a fantasy management that supposedly won't take on the role under the leadership of the current county board executives and because they won't get paid enough and that's not a rumour! We also need to get the county chairman to do a Rumba on to the field in front of the team as they come out of the tunnel with cheerleaders and dancers - male and female, straight and gay/other of course to entertain all before the games so we do.

Management need to be publicly flogged and those saying to back off the management haven't a clue what they're talking about, so they don't.

We only scored 17 points yesterday which is an absolute disgrace and if only the management had of let the players shoot more we might not have missed as many so we mightn't.

We only had 15 players on the field at any given time yesterday and that was a complete disgrace for which the management should hang their head in shame. They should have sent another 7 or 8 players on and argued with the officials at all times so they didn't notice. Completely inept so they are!

We didn't have a fight with Cavan at the start behind the band to disrupt their game plan and for that the management should hang their heads in shame and resign immediately. They have no bottle so they haven't.

Management only spent 42.11672134% of the game actually on the line and only 23.2241782% of that time communicating with them selves or someone else. Again severe flogging required so they do.

And as for this leaving the field at the end of the game! What the hell was that about? Could they not have stayed there all evening just for amusement like?

Overall 9.5 out of 10 for something so it is!
 

POINTMAN

Well-Known Member
Disappointing but we are not far off being a good team..... even a very good team.
There are a few tweaks needed no doubt, not least of which are mindsets. I think the team collectively could play with more confidence its obvious that confidence is lacking otherwise we wouldn't have lost so many leads over the last number of seasons and especially this year. I'm not going to bash management but it appears they may have reached a plateau with this squad and an injection of new ideas and energy could do wonders. Monaghan will be a massive test.
Senseless talking about any management changes mid way through the season but as said above, a plateau may have been reached in our case. Geezer has had a few years now and we have won o Ulster championship match and returned to division 2.
I honestly believe that he lacks the ability to read a game during it and yo make the necessary changes quickly enough. I also think he is too conservative in his style of play and too reticent to let go or drop certain players.
With the squad we have, particularly from midfield upwards, we should be playing to our strengths and be more attack minded. A better tactical manager would mix this up along with a better defensive formation and kick out strategies (at both ends).
Let's give the qualifiers a real blast and then have an honest non-rose tinted review of where we are and what we could and should be doing.
 

MrMaguire2002

Well-Known Member
Senseless talking about any management changes mid way through the season but as said above, a plateau may have been reached in our case. Geezer has had a few years now and we have won o Ulster championship match and returned to division 2.
I honestly believe that he lacks the ability to read a game during it and yo make the necessary changes quickly enough. I also think he is too conservative in his style of play and too reticent to let go or drop certain players.

I don't think he was conservative yesterday. I do think he was in the previous two games but yesterday it was almost as if he told the players no matter what we conceded we will out score them. The tactics McGeeney employed in the first two games were absent yesterday.

Yesterday Armagh kicked 17 points had ten wides and 4 goal chances. They played Cavan in a shoot out in many ways. This was possibly a change in mind-set because we fell so far behind in the early stages. But we were certainly not conservative yesterday.
 

William Of Orange

Well-Known Member
Armagh statement on Jarly Og Burns:

"We can confirm that following yesterday's game Jarly Og Burns was taken to hospital. He was discharged shortly after arrival and returned home last night. Our experienced medical team will continue to assess and monitor Jarly Og".
 

KilleavyGael

Active Member
Hard to disagree with anything here. Soupy looked to have great energy in the legs and his penetrating runs were great to see, something we nearly need to see a bit more of from around the MF area.

Jarly Og still a bit naive and headless. Runs in to a lot of traffic with the ball and goes to ground then. Made one Hollywood fetch in the second half but didn't contribute otherwise. That being said, he obviously wasn't 100% and is still 21. The media coverage and calls for him to be a captain etc were a bit overwhelming no doubt, particularly after 2 USFC appearances.

Worst game Aidan has played in a long time, decision making was extremely questionable at times. But again, he'll learn from it.

Murnin and Paddy Burns have vital minutes in the legs and if we're to progress this year, they'll be vital. Burns was our standout Corner Back 9 months ago and was lauded as the next Andy Mallon, one average game on Cavan's star man and his thrown on the scrap heap. Some serious rose tinted glasses and short sightedness from some quarters. Having watched The Sunday Game, that last ball seemed to get caught under his feet rather than shying out.




Really good and accurate reflection on yesterday's game.

Aidan Forker had his worst game in an Armagh jersey. Decision making was poor and probably cost us 3 scores. That being said, he'll be hungry the next day which can only be a positive.

Soupy looked very strong, and his penetrating runs caused serious damage. Would like to see a bit more powerful running from around midfield from Half Forwards and Mid Fielders too.

Jarly Og struggled badly and showed naivety at times. Tended to run in to the tackle and get smothered when in possession, ultimately ending up on the deck. Made on Hollywood fetch however. Clearly wasn't right on the day and the media coverage and calls for captaincy for a 21 year old with 2 USFC appearances are a bit premature and probably didn't help mentally.

Great to get key minutes in the legs of Andy Murnin and Paddy Burns. Murnin did show glimpses of what he's capable of with a nice flick down in the 2nd half and will have only improved after yesterday. Burns had an average day when marking Cavan's Star Man. Made some good dispossessions but was gotten the better of on the day. 9 months ago he was our best defenfer and was being lauded as the next Andy Mallon. 1 National League appearance didn't help his cause but it's extremely short sighted to throw him on the scrap heap after one average performance. On The Sunday Game, that ball at the end seems to get caught underfoot and ended in a Cavan score at a vital time, mistakes happen.

Donaghy was a huge loss and his return will be vital, he's a calming influence on the younger lads on the team and his maturity can't be underestimated.

Blaine, like I said yesterday, is struggling. A good lad and trying hard but just finding it difficult. Would be great to have a recognised keeper at 16 even to put some pressure on him at training, without competition for places it definitely leads to a sense of complacency which is good for nobody.

I think we've a good chance against a weather beaten, aging Monaghan team and both players and Management will want this one badly. Keep the Faith.

On Blaine's competition - Sean ohanlon from my own club left the panel a number of weeks ago. I didn't hear his reasons and I don't know if there are other keepers there. It wasn't Oisin O'Neill warming up with Blaine yesterday, was it kearney from Ogs?
 
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