Allianz Football League 2022 Division 1

Armagh_paul

Well-Known Member
Is it not the CCC that does this?

Whatever the outcome, the GAA needs to become far, far more transparent and come out stating exactly who is being punished, what the evidence is and what exact rule they are being punished for breaking.

The whole thing as it is is a total joke.

I am not sure, they have a range of different functions. Looking at it from a legal standpoint - you have McHugh who is very biased proposing punishments on a team his county plays against in less than 3 weeks. Hardly a fair trial so to speak. I would hope Armagh are lawyering up on this, players have got off on suspensions for worse incidents than O'Neills.
 

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
Folks whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation we find ourselves in, I know for a fact the sensible heads will put the annoyance to one side and realise that Martin McHugh will have had no part in citing Rian O'Neill. It's dead simple even in legal terms. If he did it would be quite easy to prove HIS county was involved and the outcome would favour HIS county. That would be seriously easy to unpick by even those not with a legal brain or training. HQ wouldn't be able to defend their position and arbitration would have to be sneaky clean. That simply because all counties have serious amounts of cash involved each year.

Seriously folks. Imagine for a second the legal action and harm it would do to the association with the likes of w*nker Watson getting his grin into that one. Jeez the press would have a field day. Even the northern biased RTE would choke on themselves to cover the story (I genuinely don't think they have a bias against the 6, but do play to their licence paying clients first though)

Lets talk about this all we want and I am enjoying the points being made for and against, but stay real and don't get sucked into stupidity - it's what most of you have said our lads should have done after the game in Letterkenny, yet you're doing exactly the same on a public forum.
 

Peter grimes

Well-Known Member
Paul
I have been involved in dra cases so know the process !
It’s run as a court case
The ccc decision seems flawed and therefore inequitable .
Let’s see how ccc deal with how they reached their decision over other instances
The appeal on all three initial matters is as you would appreciate based on the rationale that we may get 1 off, although I believe that’s remote
Your involvement in DRA cases will tell you that you can appeal the verdict or the sentence. If you have been given the minimum sentence it has to be the verdict that you appeal ie the innocence of your player.

Any appeal should be based upon our firm belief that our player is innocent. I don’t have a problem with the ONeill appeal as the evidence is very marginal. I have no idea what the appeal on the Campbell and Nugent is based on as I don’t know what the charge is and what the evidence is. But given that we did appeal the Macklin suspension I would have concerns.

General chat of flaws or inequity will, you will know from experience get you nowhere. We are not there to review the disciplinary process or the punishment of Donegal. Just the innocence or guilt of our players.
 

Naka

Active Member
my belief is that armagh appealed the 3 in the hope that say one would get off.
going to the dra will be on the o neill matter ( the appeal will be on the process around the decison making )
 

Peter grimes

Well-Known Member
my belief is that armagh appealed the 3 in the hope that say one would get off.

I really hope that is not true. A proper review of disciplinary processes should include a strong deterrent against this type of appealing.
going to the dra will be on the o neill matter ( the appeal will be on the process around the decison making )

I acknowledge that the DRA comment is specific to ONeill.

What is the procedural error that we are raising? I understood that the video evidence from an approved broadcaster was admissible.
 

Armaghball

Well-Known Member
I really hope that is not true. A proper review of disciplinary processes should include a strong deterrent against this type of appealing.


I acknowledge that the DRA comment is specific to ONeill.

What is the procedural error that we are raising? I understood that the video evidence from an approved broadcaster was admissible.
Surely that footage is ambiguous enough for O’Neill to argue he was breaking up the row rather than trying to strike.
 

Peter grimes

Well-Known Member
Surely that footage is ambiguous enough for O’Neill to argue he was breaking up the row rather than trying to strike.
I agree. I have no problem with a first stage review of the ONeill suspension on a innocence vs guilt call.

But DRA based on process? What is the flaw in the process that we are talking about?
 

Armaghball

Well-Known Member
I agree. I have no problem with a first stage review of the ONeill suspension on a innocence vs guilt call.

But DRA based on process? What is the flaw in the process that we are talking about?
Honestly don’t have an answer for you and probably none of us have as we are clueless as to what is really going on! Needs to be far more transparency all round.
 

Naka

Active Member
I agree. I have no problem with a first stage review of the ONeill suspension on a innocence vs guilt call.

But DRA based on process? What is the flaw in the process that we are talking about?
process would be why having seen the footage
1 was chosen (and what is the charge) when video can show 3/4 similiar instances, why was this incident deemed more worthy of sanction given the referee hadn`t made reference to it, so CC deemed this as wothy of a further sanction over and above the referees report
what was the decision making process around it

regarding the 3 and contributing to a melee( can`t see this going any further than an appeal), having been at the match, an argument re nugent was that he was subject to an unsolicited strike which can be seen, how could he be contributing if he was actually a victim
 
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Peter grimes

Well-Known Member
process would be why having seen the footage
1 was chosen (and what is the charge) when video can show 3/4 similiar instances,
I find it very difficult to believe that Armagh and Rian O’Neill have not been told what the charge is. Have you any evidence that this is the case?

Unless you want an appeal based on “you” not being told what the charge, evidence, process etc is??

The challenge that you describe is essentially not an appeal of Rian’s sentence but a demand that others are punished. Is there a precedent for this?
why was this incident deemed more worthy of sanction given the referee hadn`t made reference to it, so CC deemed this as wothy of a further sanction over and above the referees report
what was the decision making process around it

The default assumption is that the referee didn’t report it because he didn’t see it. That is the assumption we make on all matches and all reports. Have you a reason for not making that assumption here?

The process for looking at video evidence has been detailed elsewhere and with your experience of appeals I am surprised you haven’t picked up on it.
regarding the 3 and contributing to a melee( can`t see this going any further than an appeal), having been at the match, an argument re nugent was that he was subject to an unsolicited strike which can be seen, how could he be contributing if he was actually a victim
I wasn’t at the match and so have no personal view but I can quite understand that you can be attacked and then go on to contribute to a melee. An example being some one gives you a dig, knocks you to the ground, a melee ensues and goes on for several minutes, you pick yourself up and reenter the fray and land a punch. Any self defence case having been eroded in the intervening time.

Like I say, I wasn’t there. As a team, management and Board we are keeping schtum on this one. Quite right. That means most of us don’t know all that happened, don’t know the details of the charges or the evidence. But the assumptions being made by many fans that all gaps in the information must be filled by a version of events least friendly to us and that having made those assumptions that it can be construed as fact and the basis of appeals is troubling.

I draw your attention to an earlier post by Rufus. He might well be frustrated but he differentiates between what he knows and what he suspects/fears. We could all learn a lesson from that.

I hope we have 3 merited successful appeals. If they are not merited they should be thrown out. If they have been lodged speculatively then we should get our wrists slapped. I am embarrassed the 4th was ever submitted. Never again can we say to another county that they should take their medicine.
 

Armaghball

Well-Known Member
I find it very difficult to believe that Armagh and Rian O’Neill have not been told what the charge is. Have you any evidence that this is the case?

Unless you want an appeal based on “you” not being told what the charge, evidence, process etc is??

The challenge that you describe is essentially not an appeal of Rian’s sentence but a demand that others are punished. Is there a precedent for this?


The default assumption is that the referee didn’t report it because he didn’t see it. That is the assumption we make on all matches and all reports. Have you a reason for not making that assumption here?

The process for looking at video evidence has been detailed elsewhere and with your experience of appeals I am surprised you haven’t picked up on it.

I wasn’t at the match and so have no personal view but I can quite understand that you can be attacked and then go on to contribute to a melee. An example being some one gives you a dig, knocks you to the ground, a melee ensues and goes on for several minutes, you pick yourself up and reenter the fray and land a punch. Any self defence case having been eroded in the intervening time.

Like I say, I wasn’t there. As a team, management and Board we are keeping schtum on this one. Quite right. That means most of us don’t know all that happened, don’t know the details of the charges or the evidence. But the assumptions being made by many fans that all gaps in the information must be filled by a version of events least friendly to us and that having made those assumptions that it can be construed as fact and the basis of appeals is troubling.

I draw your attention to an earlier post by Rufus. He might well be frustrated but he differentiates between what he knows and what he suspects/fears. We could all learn a lesson from that.

I hope we have 3 merited successful appeals. If they are not merited they should be thrown out. If they have been lodged speculatively then we should get our wrists slapped. I am embarrassed the 4th was ever submitted. Never again can we say to another county that they should take their medicine.
Which was the 4th? Why was it embarassing?
 

Naka

Active Member
I find it very difficult to believe that Armagh and Rian O’Neill have not been told what the charge is. Have you any evidence that this is the case?

Unless you want an appeal based on “you” not being told what the charge, evidence, process etc is??

The challenge that you describe is essentially not an appeal of Rian’s sentence but a demand that others are punished. Is there a precedent for this?


The default assumption is that the referee didn’t report it because he didn’t see it. That is the assumption we make on all matches and all reports. Have you a reason for not making that assumption here?

The process for looking at video evidence has been detailed elsewhere and with your experience of appeals I am surprised you haven’t picked up on it.

I wasn’t at the match and so have no personal view but I can quite understand that you can be attacked and then go on to contribute to a melee. An example being some one gives you a dig, knocks you to the ground, a melee ensues and goes on for several minutes, you pick yourself up and reenter the fray and land a punch. Any self defence case having been eroded in the intervening time.

Like I say, I wasn’t there. As a team, management and Board we are keeping schtum on this one. Quite right. That means most of us don’t know all that happened, don’t know the details of the charges or the evidence. But the assumptions being made by many fans that all gaps in the information must be filled by a version of events least friendly to us and that having made those assumptions that it can be construed as fact and the basis of appeals is troubling.

I draw your attention to an earlier post by Rufus. He might well be frustrated but he differentiates between what he knows and what he suspects/fears. We could all learn a lesson from that.

I hope we have 3 merited successful appeals. If they are not merited they should be thrown out. If they have been lodged speculatively then we should get our wrists slapped. I am embarrassed the 4th was ever submitted. Never again can we say to another county that they should take their medicine.
cases to the dra are not appeals, they are arguments that the process has not been followed through correctly in making a decision. i have never said that rians case if it goes to the dra would be an appeal, like the diarmuid Connollly matterl in 2015 before the dra when he got off for the all ireland it was based on ensuring fair procedures in the disciplinary investigative and decision making process.
armagh will have received the paperwork etc so if they decide not to proceed then everything around the process would have been in order.
lets see how it pans out ...
lets leave it at that
 

Diarmi

Well-Known Member
Just thinking folks, these things have a way of evening themselves out in the long run. Be it karma or whatever you might believe in, Donegal will pay the price in the end and we will have the last laugh.
Let's hold our heads high, remain above the Tyrones and Donegals of this world (not that it would be very difficult to do that) and prove all the doubters wrong.
We all know how Geezer played football, tough and fair and he coaches the same way. People have caught on to Tyrone's cheating and they will do the same with the goat shaggers.
We are Armagh, we are better than this shit.
 

Peter grimes

Well-Known Member
Just thinking folks, these things have a way of evening themselves out in the long run. Be it karma or whatever you might believe in, Donegal will pay the price in the end and we will have the last laugh.
Let's hold our heads high, remain above the Tyrones and Donegals of this world (not that it would be very difficult to do that) and prove all the doubters wrong.
We all know how Geezer played football, tough and fair and he coaches the same way. People have caught on to Tyrone's cheating and they will do the same with the goat shaggers.
We are Armagh, we are better than this shit.
Not how I would have phrased it (especially not to the Donegal Missus) but otherwise hear hear
 

Muckser

Well-Known Member
When will appeal outcomes be known? Mackin I hope makes a swift recovery from what sounds a horrible injury. He's played a great part this year
 
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