National Football League 2023

pablo · Mar 27, 2023

gael_force_orchard said:
Truth be told, and it's likely for a thread of its own, underage structures, mentality, coaching, resources, competitiveness levels, are all going to have to be addressed long term for the senior team to be success.

This isn't a negative post, throughout the thread here and in other sections these points have been alluded to, as have the structures of the senior, intermediate and junior club formats.

We have spent 3 years in Division 1. How many times has that happened over the last number of decades in Armagh. Last time in Division 1 we lasted 2 seasons. We won our only all Ireland from division 2.

We need competive club structures and competitive underage with a safety net to also catch and develop players who mature to county standard at a later age. There is a lot of good work done in the county, it's just about harnessing it that bit better to give us the extra 10% we need. Schools have to come into the equation here as well.

Agree. There have been a few posts bringing up our inability to close out tight games. I'm going to repeat something that I have posted on before-we can argue that our tendency to 'wobble' in the final stretch of a game is due to manager and coaching. But I think that mentality predominantly arises from a deeper problem that reflects the poor state of football within the county and the lack of players coming into the senior set up from a winning background. That is not an attack on the courage, committment or skill of our players; but our underage teams have had an abysmal for years and our club teams-at every level, rarely get past the first round of Ulster championship. Our recent schools record also is not much to get excited about. We have talented and whole-hearted players, but not many coming in with any prior experience of being on a team that has had success at a provincial or national level (apart the 09 class). Our players would run through a brick wall for the jersey-they are not cowards but in their development they have had little taste of success and winning anything outside the county. I genuinely feel this manifests in those final minutes as indecisiveness and overcautiousness. We need the county to be producing winning teams that can get past the first round of their respective championships.
I would echo the earlier post from Seamy in his opinion/assessment of McGeeney and go maybe further- I sincerely believe the county needs him involved in some capacity and to send him packing could be disasterous. I recognize his weaknesses in strategy, tactics and puzzling selections. At times I get as frustrated as that expressed by many on here. But the bigger picture is that McGeeney has set up an environment that brings in players to the senior set up and allows them to play at a level competitive at a higher national stage-seriously, despite the set back this weekend, we are not that far away and this has been achieved in spite of the poor level of football within the county. Other counties are working with a system of strong clubs, good underage and winning schools-all interlinked. McGeeney has not had that luxury. Of course he has limitations and I feel he needs a strong tactical team around him. Maybe his role is better as a director of football developement type role-but for the county to totally loss McGeeney, I honestly feel that could leave us in a truly bad position

Wee man · Mar 27, 2023

William Of Orange said:
I thought Jemar had a good game yesterday reviewing the match , was very busy , good score and showed well . Might have been different view from the side of the pitch but .

Seemed like he was ear marked by Tyrone for special attention was hit hard on several times

Wee man · Mar 27, 2023

F

pablo said:
Agree. There have been a few posts bringing up our inability to close out tight games. I'm going to repeat something that I have posted on before-we can argue that our tendency to 'wobble' in the final stretch of a game is due to manager and coaching. But I think that mentality predominantly arises from a deeper problem that reflects the poor state of football within the county and the lack of players coming into the senior set up from a winning background. That is not an attack on the courage, committment or skill of our players; but our underage teams have had an abysmal for years and our club teams-at every level, rarely get past the first round of Ulster championship. Our recent schools record also is not much to get excited about. We have talented and whole-hearted players, but not many coming in with any prior experience of being on a team that has had success at a provincial or national level (apart the 09 class). Our players would run through a brick wall for the jersey-they are not cowards but in their development they have had little taste of success and winning anything outside the county. I genuinely feel this manifests in those final minutes as indecisiveness and overcautiousness. We need the county to be producing winning teams that can get past the first round of their respective championships.
I would echo the earlier post from Seamy in his opinion/assessment of McGeeney and go maybe further- I sincerely believe the county needs him involved in some capacity and to send him packing could be disasterous. I recognize his weaknesses in strategy, tactics and puzzling selections. At times I get as frustrated as that expressed by many on here. But the bigger picture is that McGeeney has set up an environment that brings in players to the senior set up and allows them to play at a level competitive at a higher national stage-seriously, despite the set back this weekend, we are not that away and this has been achieved in spite of the poor level of football within the county. Other counties are working with a system of strong clubs, good underage and winning schools-all interlinked. McGeeney has not had that luxury. Of course he has limitations and I feel he needs a strong tactical team around him. Maybe his role is better as a director of football developement type role-but for the county to totally loss McGeeney, I honestly feel that could leave us in a truly bad position

The team lacks the belief that they can win tight games but I think it would come if they could string a couple of wins together.

William Of Orange · Mar 27, 2023

Ouch It’s Francie said:
No point in me adding anything about the game other than it was a fine game of football.

I thought I’d have to take a lot of medicine from these hoors up here in Divingmidgetland but in fairness it could have been a lot worse. As one fairly big midget (holds a record for being sent off for two different clubs in two different senior championship finals - in the one day!! ) said -“ youse have been one kick of a ball away from victory in every game ffs - wait for the click”. There’s a begrudging respect for what we’ve become. I’d bet there’s not a single county manager who would choose to face Armagh. It’s of course disappointing to be relegated as I believe you have to play to best in order to beat the best, but this upcoming AI series is where it’s at, not the provincials IMO. In the last 4 years the needle has moved to the right. We are a more hardened bunch. Let’s see how this translates to dealing with opposition in the red heat of the championship? I also am interested to see how Derry and indeed Dublin deals with Div 1 outfits?

Anyways……. (fecking midgets)

It looked like a good game of Football to be at , however some amount of mistakes made also by both sets of players , which in turn led to most of the scores for the opposition .

William Of Orange · Mar 27, 2023

pablo said:
Agree. There have been a few posts bringing up our inability to close out tight games. I'm going to repeat something that I have posted on before-we can argue that our tendency to 'wobble' in the final stretch of a game is due to manager and coaching. But I think that mentality predominantly arises from a deeper problem that reflects the poor state of football within the county and the lack of players coming into the senior set up from a winning background. That is not an attack on the courage, committment or skill of our players; but our underage teams have had an abysmal for years and our club teams-at every level, rarely get past the first round of Ulster championship. Our recent schools record also is not much to get excited about. We have talented and whole-hearted players, but not many coming in with any prior experience of being on a team that has had success at a provincial or national level (apart the 09 class). Our players would run through a brick wall for the jersey-they are not cowards but in their development they have had little taste of success and winning anything outside the county. I genuinely feel this manifests in those final minutes as indecisiveness and overcautiousness. We need the county to be producing winning teams that can get past the first round of their respective championships.
I would echo the earlier post from Seamy in his opinion/assessment of McGeeney and go maybe further- I sincerely believe the county needs him involved in some capacity and to send him packing could be disasterous. I recognize his weaknesses in strategy, tactics and puzzling selections. At times I get as frustrated as that expressed by many on here. But the bigger picture is that McGeeney has set up an environment that brings in players to the senior set up and allows them to play at a level competitive at a higher national stage-seriously, despite the set back this weekend, we are not that far away and this has been achieved in spite of the poor level of football within the county. Other counties are working with a system of strong clubs, good underage and winning schools-all interlinked. McGeeney has not had that luxury. Of course he has limitations and I feel he needs a strong tactical team around him. Maybe his role is better as a director of football developement type role-but for the county to totally loss McGeeney, I honestly feel that could leave us in a truly bad position

He had a massive impact when he came in as no 2 to PG , again that motivational side is unquestioned , I think like Mr Harte has done with Louth , he can definitely lift a team and maximise their potential but the points on the weaknesses are also key, this can also be the difference between winning and losing .

Ouch It’s Francie · Mar 27, 2023

William Of Orange said:
It looked like a good game of Football to be at , however some amount of mistakes made also by both sets of players , which in turn led to most of the scores for the opposition .

Bang on! It never felt like a championship game however. It’s March and this new format has many’s a head scratching. I think we all need to breathe a little. I understand the frustrations but what’s won or lost in March means nothing in August.

bcb1 · Mar 27, 2023

Now is not the time for the analysis of what needs to be done as the season is ongoing but I’ve been saying for years there has to be a top down and bottom review of why the county as a whole is failing. I will hold my powder dry on my feelings on some of it but have always said the quality in schools, and that includes primary, generally will reflect the future position of the underage and senior teams. I always use my own club as a template. The 2 AI winning groups (97-2000) and then the 2007-2012 can be traced directly back to McGreevey cup winning teams in the primary school in Cross. It is no coincidence. The quality from Cross then going onto the 2 Newry schools in particular raised that grammar school level up. There is a failing I believe at the very bottom level which is then further run backwards as it goes further on. That is why I believe there needs to be bottom up and top down

Wide ball · Mar 27, 2023

bcb1 said:
Now is not the time for the analysis of what needs to be done as the season is ongoing but I’ve been saying for years there has to be a top down and bottom review of why the county as a whole is failing. I will hold my powder dry on my feelings on some of it but have always said the quality in schools, and that includes primary, generally will reflect the future position of the underage and senior teams. I always use my own club as a template. The 2 AI winning groups (97-2000) and then the 2007-2012 can be traced directly back to McGreevey cup winning teams in the primary school in Cross. It is no coincidence. The quality from Cross then going onto the 2 Newry schools in particular raised that grammar school level up. There is a failing I believe at the very bottom level which is then further run backwards as it goes further on. That is why I believe there needs to be bottom up and top down

Good post by you and Pablo. Agree with it all

ragingbull · Mar 27, 2023

niall1980 said:
The women won

That's it I'm following the women from now on

William Of Orange · Mar 27, 2023

ragingbull said:
That's it I'm following the women from now on

Did that not get you into trouble before ..

Wee man · Mar 27, 2023

bcb1 said:
Now is not the time for the analysis of what needs to be done as the season is ongoing but I’ve been saying for years there has to be a top down and bottom review of why the county as a whole is failing. I will hold my powder dry on my feelings on some of it but have always said the quality in schools, and that includes primary, generally will reflect the future position of the underage and senior teams. I always use my own club as a template. The 2 AI winning groups (97-2000) and then the 2007-2012 can be traced directly back to McGreevey cup winning teams in the primary school in Cross. It is no coincidence. The quality from Cross then going onto the 2 Newry schools in particular raised that grammar school level up. There is a failing I believe at the very bottom level which is then further run backwards as it goes further on. That is why I believe there needs to be bottom up and top down

Full time coaches routinely (at least weekly) attending primary schools should be a minimum.
As far as I’m aware this is now happening but only in the last year or two.

pablo · Mar 27, 2023

William Of Orange said:
It looked like a good game of Football to be at , however some amount of mistakes made also by both sets of players , which in turn led to most of the scores for the opposition .

I think what he brings goes beyond motivational but also professional like structurea, player development, funding. I think he genuinely has managed to create a set up comprising a competitive talented panel, with very little to work with. Thats reflective of the panel itself-no club or previous underage cohort dominate and its draws on a spread of junior, intermediate and senior clubs across all the county. He had no real choice. I note a poster on another forum expressing the fear that this is a team 'build on a house of sand'. That is exactly my concern. I wouldn't go as far to say that McGeeney has overachieved-mistakes on the sideline etc, but he has created a senior set up that can compete at the highest level for a county that has no feeder system. The state of football in the county means that there is little to work with-we do manage to come up with some indvidual gems but they have little experience of playing on provincial or national winning teams
Having said that, we are not that far away. As OIFrancie mentions-even the Tyronies are wary that very soon it may all click for us and we could be off and flying.

ragingbull · Mar 27, 2023

GAA football league final fixtures in Croke Park this weekend:

Sat
Div 4: Sligo v Wicklow, 5pm.
Div 3: Cavan v Fermanagh, 7.15pm.

Sun
Div 2: Dublin v Derry, 1.45pm.
Div 1: Galway v Mayo, 4pm.

Wide ball · Mar 27, 2023

Wee man said:
Full time coaches routinely (at least weekly) attending primary schools should be a minimum.
As far as I’m aware this is now happening but only in the last year or two.

Good to know it's happening now and that will pay dividends in the future

PatMustard · Mar 27, 2023

bcb1 said:
Now is not the time for the analysis of what needs to be done as the season is ongoing but I’ve been saying for years there has to be a top down and bottom review of why the county as a whole is failing. I will hold my powder dry on my feelings on some of it but have always said the quality in schools, and that includes primary, generally will reflect the future position of the underage and senior teams. I always use my own club as a template. The 2 AI winning groups (97-2000) and then the 2007-2012 can be traced directly back to McGreevey cup winning teams in the primary school in Cross. It is no coincidence. The quality from Cross then going onto the 2 Newry schools in particular raised that grammar school level up. There is a failing I believe at the very bottom level which is then further run backwards as it goes further on. That is why I believe there needs to be bottom up and top down

Coaching, structures, schools etc are important definitely. But do things go deeper than that?

Modern society is a factor too. I notice changes with kids now to when I was a kid (in the 50’s)...

Housing developments with no green areas. That’s where you hone your skills really. Hours and hours spent after school and weekend.

Both parents working and kids sent to childminders/after school clubs instead of out playing. In the past, probably more mothers at home, so the kids came from school, grabbed the ball, and away outside.

Technology is an absolutely massive problem (yes, I understand I’m on a technology typing this). Near us, I’ve noticed kids out playing all the time. Once they hit secondary school, the phones appear and you never see them again. Kids getting gadgets younger and younger, instead of being thrown a ball or hurl and told to get outside.

Smaller families. If a kid is an only child, less likely to get involved. Heard lots of stories of a bigger family and the lads (and girls) cutting the sh1te out of each other in the garden, night and day. I think the Mackin girls had a similar upbringing with their brothers.

Two stories spring to mind. Peter Canavan and Roy Keane. Heard it said neither rarely had a ball out of their hands. Toe tapping the ball walking to school/shop/calling for friends. Kicking balls against gable walls annoying the neighbours. Honing their skills constantly.

Armaghball · Mar 27, 2023

PatMustard said:
Coaching, structures, schools etc are important definitely. But do things go deeper than that?

Modern society is a factor too. I notice changes with kids now to when I was a kid (in the 50’s)...

Housing developments with no green areas. That’s where you hone your skills really. Hours and hours spent after school and weekend.

Both parents working and kids sent to childminders/after school clubs instead of out playing. In the past, probably more mothers at home, so the kids came from school, grabbed the ball, and away outside.

Technology is an absolutely massive problem (yes, I understand I’m on a technology typing this). Near us, I’ve noticed kids out playing all the time. Once they hit secondary school, the phones appear and you never see them again. Kids getting gadgets younger and younger, instead of being thrown a ball or hurl and told to get outside.

Smaller families. If a kid is an only child, less likely to get involved. Heard lots of stories of a bigger family and the lads (and girls) cutting the sh1te out of each other in the garden, night and day. I think the Mackin girls had a similar upbringing with their brothers.

Two stories spring to mind. Peter Canavan and Roy Keane. Heard it said neither rarely had a ball out of their hands. Toe tapping the ball walking to school/shop/calling for friends. Kicking balls against gable walls annoying the neighbours. Honing their skills constantly.

All completely right Pat and valid points that are obviously wider societal issues that impact everyone not just Armagh!

Depressing thoughts of a Monday afternoon!

Wee man · Mar 27, 2023

Wide ball said:
Good to know it's happening now and that will pay dividends in the future

Again, I don’t know how it is financed, perhaps someone in the know could explain, but I imagine it will only happen for as long as the funds are there to pay the coaches.
I think it is something that should be promoted.
If the county board is funding coaches, IMO they should be shouting it from the rooftops and inviting sponsorship for same. Ensure there is adequate funding to sustain it long term rather than do it for a couple of years until the pot runs dry.

JoeH · Mar 27, 2023

Wee man said:
Full time coaches routinely (at least weekly) attending primary schools should be a minimum.
As far as I’m aware this is now happening but only in the last year or two.

Thing called COVID happened a bit before that

Wee man · Mar 27, 2023

JoeH said:
Thing called COVID happened a bit before that

It did, and I’m only referring to my own local primary, but there was no structured coaching in primary schools for a long period before covid.

Don’t get me wrong, im not being critical here, if this has been put in place the CB deserves a Pat on the back.

Big Jim · Mar 27, 2023

William Of Orange said:
Get live GAA scores with ScoreBeo:

Apple: https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/score-beo/id1564496962

Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ie.scorebeo.app

Best of luck to the lads today , can’t make Omagh due to the fact every time I get within a 20 km radius I break out on a rash .

Seriously but I’ve to work and I will also be geo blocked from the iplayer so will be watching on the above app .

Any updates on team news etc from people at the match will be appreciated.

Should that not have finished "can’t make Omagh due to the fact every time I get within a 20 km radius I break my restraining order!!! ???????

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