Armagh v Cavan - Ulster Semi-final and Replay
- Thread starter Rufus T Firefly
- Start date
Armagh_paul
Well-Known Member
So these are the referees already in action this weekend
Maurice Deegan
Fergal Kelly
Paddy Neilan
Ciaran Branagan
Joe McQuillan
Conor Lane
Noel Mooney
Barry Cassidy
Anthony Nolan
Martin McNally
David Gough
That potentially leaves us with
Breandan Cawley (Kildare)
David Coldrick (Meath)
Niall Cullen (Fermanagh)
Jerome Henry (Mayo)
Sean Hurson (Tyrone)
Fergal Kelly (Longford)
James Molloy (Galway)
Derek O'Mahoney (Tipperary)
Could we get the same referee?
Maurice Deegan
Fergal Kelly
Paddy Neilan
Ciaran Branagan
Joe McQuillan
Conor Lane
Noel Mooney
Barry Cassidy
Anthony Nolan
Martin McNally
David Gough
That potentially leaves us with
Breandan Cawley (Kildare)
David Coldrick (Meath)
Niall Cullen (Fermanagh)
Jerome Henry (Mayo)
Sean Hurson (Tyrone)
Fergal Kelly (Longford)
James Molloy (Galway)
Derek O'Mahoney (Tipperary)
Could we get the same referee?
Hopefully not
Mickey Gormley
Active Member
Was Donaghy 2 yellows? Will he be back?
Straight red
armaghtimmy
Well-Known Member
Having slept on it, still not sure how I feel. Did we throw it away or get out of jail, a bit of both really. I guess at 4 points up and a man up with just over 10 mins to play you have to side on the threw it away. I though the ref was decent, a few iffy calls on both sides but if anything I felt he slightly favoured us. Could have easily sent Grimley off for a wild pull, fair play to the big Cavan man for not making a meal of it. Mc Veety was very good but by god goes down easily, Morgan was never going to be able to handle him with the way he plays. Forker had his best game in a long time, shields, hughes, burns, hall also very impressive. Rian never shys away and is already a leader. Would love if we left 3 up top, that would leave Cavan having to keep 5 back which would make it so much easier to break out at speed, or if they went man to man we would have options to deliver long ball in from or own 45. The transition is still much to slow and frustrating to watch. It felt very much like two teams who didn't want to lose more than wanting to win. When we take the handbrake off we play exciting stuff. Hopefully Burns is ok for the next day, huge player. Rafferty is a mile off the pace of county football, full forward maybe the only place he could play and we already have 2 great options there with Andy and Rian so I cant see him getting much more game time. Grugan should be dropped, perhaps Grimley to half forward line and Crealey to start giving us 3 midfielders to aim at with kick out. Very surprised Cavan didn't pump high balls in. Anyways, we are still there and go again next Sunday, I assume this wont be live on tv??
The Sideline Eye
Active Member
Check out our match report from yesterday's game!
https://thesidelineeye.com/2019/06/03/cavan-comeback-confirms-replay/
https://thesidelineeye.com/2019/06/03/cavan-comeback-confirms-replay/
PatMustard
Well-Known Member
Us passing the ball back and forth, I think because scores were hard to come by, and it was safety first. Plus in ET, we were knackered, and one score could have won it for Cavan. So, as frustrating as it was, we didn’t lose it.
Ethan going on and off - was he injured? It’ll do the lads confidence no good if he was just hauled off.
Must mention Ben Crealey. Came on in both games, and I don’t think he wasted one ball. Caught, laid off and linked the play. Very assured play for a young fella.
Re: Donaghy sending off. The ref definitely did produce a second yellow, then red. Even though that was a red card offence, will he get off because the ref did produce two yellows?
Ethan going on and off - was he injured? It’ll do the lads confidence no good if he was just hauled off.
Must mention Ben Crealey. Came on in both games, and I don’t think he wasted one ball. Caught, laid off and linked the play. Very assured play for a young fella.
Re: Donaghy sending off. The ref definitely did produce a second yellow, then red. Even though that was a red card offence, will he get off because the ref did produce two yellows?
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
As long as it's not McGoldrick
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
That's next club games on Friday & Saturday again
PatMustard
Well-Known Member
A good summary - I agree with most of what you say. Neither team deserved to lose or to win. But we were 4 points up and could not close it out.
Next day we need to keep our scoring forwards in the danger areas and then we have targets to hit when we come out of defence. Cavan are certainly beatable.
What chances for Oisin O'Neill and Murnin being fit to start?
The Big Easy
Active Member
Some people just can't wait to put the boot in. At the start of the year, his win rate rate in the Ulster Championship was zero! His lost rate was 100%. Now his win rate is 17% and his lost rate is reduced to 67% (because of the draw). Stats don't lie - they show, in this case, an improvement. An upward curve!!!! Lies, damn lies and statistics.
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
haha they must be related some wayEddie?
Agree that would like to see crealy in from the start/earlier as a sub. Thought forker did an immense job on Martin Reilly, who didn’t get a sniff all day. Watching the match on tv last night thought grugan was better than he has been this year, not up to his high standards of last year but better nonetheless. Overall I thought our defending was very impressive, at the end of the day Cavan are a division 1 team who competed very well in the league this year, to only concede 1 point in extra time is significant.
Crealy had a bad miss.
The ref didn’t produce a yellow then red. He went to flash the red it got caught in his pocket so flashed it again
William Of Orange
Well-Known Member
Adian O Rourke on The RTE Website
In any dynamic field sport, momentum and the flow of a game are lifeblood for teams as they pursue victory.
Particularly when opponents are evenly matched, the ability to control how a game is played at crucial times is fundamental to achieving a desired outcome. As a rule of thumb, pace, energy and space are your friend only when you are in possession. When you are not, killing those things subtly is a focus for habitual winners.
In the dying embers of the 2017 All Ireland Football final, with Dublin and Mayo deadlocked at 1-16 apiece, Diarmuid Connolly drew a scorable free about 40 yards from goal and left of centre. Dean Rock might have selected the patch of turf Connolly did if he had been given a free hand in any case. As the referee’s whistle signalled Dublin’s decisive opportunity there were 90 seconds of injury time to play.
By the time Rock subsequently strikes the ball, the entirety of injury time has somehow elapsed and Dublin’s clear objective - having squeezed in front - is to close down any playing time the referee thinks he may additionally add for the original injury time wasted.
Before the kick out can be struck, Rock has barged into the back of Chris Barrett and Ciaran Kilkenny has pinned Lee Keegan in a mount position. Joe McQuillan and his linesmen have plenty to sort out to get play resumed and ultimately Cormac Costello - who arrived to the fray as a timewasting substitute - absorbs a yellow card.
Mayhem ensues everywhere, like a barfight spilling onto the street in a spaghetti western. Kilkenny is next for "punishment" as he ignores then half acknowledges the receipt of a black card. As Joe McQuillan tries to usher him off the pitch Kilkenny stands his ground, taking the opportunity to orchestrate teammates towards further resistance to the restart of the game.
With frustration at boiling point and well over another minute elapsed before Mayo can restart the game, David Clarke tries to force a sliced delivery to the wing and clears the sideline. The champions have to keep the possession that has been gifted back to them but ultimately the game is over.
From the moment Joe McQuillan’s whistle went for a scorable free, Dublin were in control of the destiny of the game because they knew through instinct, trial, error and experience exactly what had to happen to close the game out.
Days of lament followed, cursing rules and conventions that reward cynicism. In fact, what was mostly missed was that this was a masterclass in game management.
Game management
Not unlike leadership or composure under pressure, it is often said that 'game management' is a set of skills that takes a considerable amount of time and experience to master. That's not always the case. Preparation and on-field influencers who can identify opposition strengths and weaknesses can create a culture in any team that enables collective manipulation of a game’s patterns.
To control the flow of a game, an effective team have three areas to manage effectively:
In practice
Over the weekend an emerging Armagh team met a resurgent Cavan with an Ulster final appearance - scarce recently for either side - at stake. Neither team hit the heights they would have hoped for in terms of performance. Semi-finals are rarely pretty and for both teams the result trumps aesthetics.
After 60 minutes of concentration, pressing and chasing scoring opportunities it looked like Armagh had done enough. Three points up, with Cavan reduced to 14 men and 10 minutes on the clock is a game management test to be passed.
Naturally, chasing the game, Cavan had abandoned their cover out of desperation. Most of the day, Armagh had protected their full-back line well and the Breffni men had stopped looking for ball inside. Every Cavan attack was now measured and through the hands to try to create shooting space inside the 45.
This scenario meant that the Cavan threat to be managed was clear and, with an extra man to deploy, that should have been achievable. More crucially, the opportunity Cavan’s desperation presented was the key to victory. If Armagh could get some share of quick ball forward into a 2 v 2 scenario, their attacking quality would do the rest.
Two key game-management elements were clear: Firstly, meet the Cavan build up play in the middle third before they get within shooting range and take momentum off them (tactically foul, Dublin-style). Secondly, rather than try to preserve the lead by maintaining possession, use the gaps Cavan were leaving by chasing against them and kick early ball into the forward line.
Essentially, go for the throat with possession because Cavan had to play without protection. Losing the ball in the forward line with the opportunity to add to the lead was eminently more preferable to getting turned over carrying the ball through the middle, where their opponents were pressing. One more point in this period would have won the game.
End game
Two patterns emerged over the remainder of play. Cavan worked runners into space to kick four more points in normal time and a later equaliser and on each occasion the score was kicked from 40 yards with an Armagh cover player sitting deep to no effect.
Additionally, Armagh failed to create a single kicked attack for the remainder of normal time. It would seem that panic reigned when you consider alongside that statistic that Andrew Murnin - arguably the most effective ball-winning target man in the country - was part of the equation for the closing period at full forward.
Armagh - like Dublin in the 2017 All Ireland final - occupied a winning position and had the tools to control the game’s momentum over a prolonged period of time. They should have closed it out.
Armagh manager Kieran McGeeney (L) and Cavan boss Mickey Graham after their sides drew in Clones
Leading the way
Before any team can set about improving and mastering how they collectively attack, defend and manipulate the officials and opposition, they have to understand the importance of evolving with a game’s environment.
Rarely will the same approach remain effective over the full course of a contest and so they must adapt.How and why are the key questions and those are answered by leaders on the pitch.
It is no coincidence that Dublin have consistently eked out results from claustrophobic positions when it counts over the four-in-a-row run. It is in no small part due to the game smarts and leadership they possess in every area of the field.
Game intelligence is an area often overlooked in the evolution of any team but it is a fundamental 'winning' characteristic that can often be a glass ceiling to limit progress if it is lacking.
Many teams aspire to Dublin’s athleticism, playing style and standards but what really sets them apart form the pack is their game management. The list of teams that do so many things right but lack latter characteristic grows by the weekend.
In any dynamic field sport, momentum and the flow of a game are lifeblood for teams as they pursue victory.
Particularly when opponents are evenly matched, the ability to control how a game is played at crucial times is fundamental to achieving a desired outcome. As a rule of thumb, pace, energy and space are your friend only when you are in possession. When you are not, killing those things subtly is a focus for habitual winners.
In the dying embers of the 2017 All Ireland Football final, with Dublin and Mayo deadlocked at 1-16 apiece, Diarmuid Connolly drew a scorable free about 40 yards from goal and left of centre. Dean Rock might have selected the patch of turf Connolly did if he had been given a free hand in any case. As the referee’s whistle signalled Dublin’s decisive opportunity there were 90 seconds of injury time to play.
By the time Rock subsequently strikes the ball, the entirety of injury time has somehow elapsed and Dublin’s clear objective - having squeezed in front - is to close down any playing time the referee thinks he may additionally add for the original injury time wasted.
Before the kick out can be struck, Rock has barged into the back of Chris Barrett and Ciaran Kilkenny has pinned Lee Keegan in a mount position. Joe McQuillan and his linesmen have plenty to sort out to get play resumed and ultimately Cormac Costello - who arrived to the fray as a timewasting substitute - absorbs a yellow card.
Mayhem ensues everywhere, like a barfight spilling onto the street in a spaghetti western. Kilkenny is next for "punishment" as he ignores then half acknowledges the receipt of a black card. As Joe McQuillan tries to usher him off the pitch Kilkenny stands his ground, taking the opportunity to orchestrate teammates towards further resistance to the restart of the game.
With frustration at boiling point and well over another minute elapsed before Mayo can restart the game, David Clarke tries to force a sliced delivery to the wing and clears the sideline. The champions have to keep the possession that has been gifted back to them but ultimately the game is over.
From the moment Joe McQuillan’s whistle went for a scorable free, Dublin were in control of the destiny of the game because they knew through instinct, trial, error and experience exactly what had to happen to close the game out.
Days of lament followed, cursing rules and conventions that reward cynicism. In fact, what was mostly missed was that this was a masterclass in game management.
Game management
Not unlike leadership or composure under pressure, it is often said that 'game management' is a set of skills that takes a considerable amount of time and experience to master. That's not always the case. Preparation and on-field influencers who can identify opposition strengths and weaknesses can create a culture in any team that enables collective manipulation of a game’s patterns.
To control the flow of a game, an effective team have three areas to manage effectively:
- 1) The officials
- 2) Their opponents
- 3) Their own skill set
In practice
Over the weekend an emerging Armagh team met a resurgent Cavan with an Ulster final appearance - scarce recently for either side - at stake. Neither team hit the heights they would have hoped for in terms of performance. Semi-finals are rarely pretty and for both teams the result trumps aesthetics.
After 60 minutes of concentration, pressing and chasing scoring opportunities it looked like Armagh had done enough. Three points up, with Cavan reduced to 14 men and 10 minutes on the clock is a game management test to be passed.
Naturally, chasing the game, Cavan had abandoned their cover out of desperation. Most of the day, Armagh had protected their full-back line well and the Breffni men had stopped looking for ball inside. Every Cavan attack was now measured and through the hands to try to create shooting space inside the 45.
This scenario meant that the Cavan threat to be managed was clear and, with an extra man to deploy, that should have been achievable. More crucially, the opportunity Cavan’s desperation presented was the key to victory. If Armagh could get some share of quick ball forward into a 2 v 2 scenario, their attacking quality would do the rest.
Two key game-management elements were clear: Firstly, meet the Cavan build up play in the middle third before they get within shooting range and take momentum off them (tactically foul, Dublin-style). Secondly, rather than try to preserve the lead by maintaining possession, use the gaps Cavan were leaving by chasing against them and kick early ball into the forward line.
Essentially, go for the throat with possession because Cavan had to play without protection. Losing the ball in the forward line with the opportunity to add to the lead was eminently more preferable to getting turned over carrying the ball through the middle, where their opponents were pressing. One more point in this period would have won the game.
End game
Two patterns emerged over the remainder of play. Cavan worked runners into space to kick four more points in normal time and a later equaliser and on each occasion the score was kicked from 40 yards with an Armagh cover player sitting deep to no effect.
Additionally, Armagh failed to create a single kicked attack for the remainder of normal time. It would seem that panic reigned when you consider alongside that statistic that Andrew Murnin - arguably the most effective ball-winning target man in the country - was part of the equation for the closing period at full forward.
Armagh - like Dublin in the 2017 All Ireland final - occupied a winning position and had the tools to control the game’s momentum over a prolonged period of time. They should have closed it out.
Armagh manager Kieran McGeeney (L) and Cavan boss Mickey Graham after their sides drew in Clones
Leading the way
Before any team can set about improving and mastering how they collectively attack, defend and manipulate the officials and opposition, they have to understand the importance of evolving with a game’s environment.
Rarely will the same approach remain effective over the full course of a contest and so they must adapt.How and why are the key questions and those are answered by leaders on the pitch.
It is no coincidence that Dublin have consistently eked out results from claustrophobic positions when it counts over the four-in-a-row run. It is in no small part due to the game smarts and leadership they possess in every area of the field.
Game intelligence is an area often overlooked in the evolution of any team but it is a fundamental 'winning' characteristic that can often be a glass ceiling to limit progress if it is lacking.
Many teams aspire to Dublin’s athleticism, playing style and standards but what really sets them apart form the pack is their game management. The list of teams that do so many things right but lack latter characteristic grows by the weekend.
Agreed. I’m not that annoyed at that. Failing to close it out when they went a man down was more irritating.
The Big Easy
Active Member
We are much too negative; i don't understand having O'Neill away out the field all the time. I don't mind it as a tactic now and again but not for 70 mins. He's dangerous and can take a score - he needs to play at 11 i think. I'd really like to see his brother get 10 mins. Him and Murnin at the edge of the square last 10 mins in a game and go direct.
Our transition play is too slow. The times when we kicked it quick, we caused serious problems for Cavan. Usually the Cross men kicking it too - we need to transition far quicker the next day. This lateral hand-passing would do my nut in.
We tried to run a 4 min clock down in extra time which was crazy. Cavan had pushed up and there was loads of space in front of Murnin - didn't understand why we didn't try to get it in to him and go for it.
I feel we may have learned a bit more out of the game than Cavan. Their 11 is a class act and we need someone on him (NOT MORGAN!). It's another day out and another week where Murnin and Oision O'Neill are getting closer to fitness.
B. Hughes - 3 or 4 dodgy kickouts. Better than the Down game but Cavan smell blood when he has to go long.
Morgan - Jesus, he just can't tackle. When a man beats you to the ball - stand him up - don't run over him like a steam roller.
Brendy - stupid red card. Played well all day and a few important interceptions. Charlie (who i thought did very well when he was introduced) will start the next day now.
Forker - great game - never gave Reilly a sniff
Jemar - serious workrate but was banjaxed towards end of normal time. Surely McCabe could have come in there?
Burns - one word - outstanding.
Grimley - not his best day - i expect more from him to be honest.
Grugan - just slows the whole game down - he's a very frustrating player this year - he rarely breaks the line now and won't deliver those lovely balls into the forward line that he was doing last year and year before. Decision time on him i feel. I heard he was a bit petulant to the management in extra time - did anyone see this? Apparently he was like an U10 asking if he could go back on.
Jamie - Jamie put in one hell of a shift. Won almost every ball kicked to him and worked tirelessly back. I'd rather see him stay up front with O'Neill rather than Grugan ending up at full-forward at times (what was that like - Grugan is no full-forward).
Soup - thought he was decent - think there's more in him though.
Nugent - very impressed with this lad. He's not afraid to shoot.
Shields - excellent until Morgan had to go off then became a man marker. We need Shields with that license to go and create over laps. He's unmarkable when he does that.
Our transition play is too slow. The times when we kicked it quick, we caused serious problems for Cavan. Usually the Cross men kicking it too - we need to transition far quicker the next day. This lateral hand-passing would do my nut in.
We tried to run a 4 min clock down in extra time which was crazy. Cavan had pushed up and there was loads of space in front of Murnin - didn't understand why we didn't try to get it in to him and go for it.
I feel we may have learned a bit more out of the game than Cavan. Their 11 is a class act and we need someone on him (NOT MORGAN!). It's another day out and another week where Murnin and Oision O'Neill are getting closer to fitness.
B. Hughes - 3 or 4 dodgy kickouts. Better than the Down game but Cavan smell blood when he has to go long.
Morgan - Jesus, he just can't tackle. When a man beats you to the ball - stand him up - don't run over him like a steam roller.
Brendy - stupid red card. Played well all day and a few important interceptions. Charlie (who i thought did very well when he was introduced) will start the next day now.
Forker - great game - never gave Reilly a sniff
Jemar - serious workrate but was banjaxed towards end of normal time. Surely McCabe could have come in there?
Burns - one word - outstanding.
Grimley - not his best day - i expect more from him to be honest.
Grugan - just slows the whole game down - he's a very frustrating player this year - he rarely breaks the line now and won't deliver those lovely balls into the forward line that he was doing last year and year before. Decision time on him i feel. I heard he was a bit petulant to the management in extra time - did anyone see this? Apparently he was like an U10 asking if he could go back on.
Jamie - Jamie put in one hell of a shift. Won almost every ball kicked to him and worked tirelessly back. I'd rather see him stay up front with O'Neill rather than Grugan ending up at full-forward at times (what was that like - Grugan is no full-forward).
Soup - thought he was decent - think there's more in him though.
Nugent - very impressed with this lad. He's not afraid to shoot.
Shields - excellent until Morgan had to go off then became a man marker. We need Shields with that license to go and create over laps. He's unmarkable when he does that.