Is it time to consider new management?

Naka

Active Member
clarke i would hope will be like Harrison, play footie in london but line out for the county.
he was unfortunate this year in two games regarding the goal chances but his last 3 games in the jersey were superlative.
 

cailín beag88

Well-Known Member
I'm all for him staying..can't see the sense changing management team now we seem to be steadily building and surely changing the management will undo all this..we are making progress..
Kildare players always speak very high of Mcgenney and this speaks volumes.
We might not have much success yet but lets face it asides from a great period in 99 and early 00s we not always being successful..as my dad always says he is 30 years older than me and has seeing not to many more Ulster than me and near enough the same numbers trips to croke park
 

Eireogatron

Well-Known Member
Im not saying I want him out at all because the progress this year has been visible but I think Kildares players backing of Geezer can be taken with a slight pinch of salt. The reason being that he got them the best of everything in terms of expenses, food etc which in turn almost bankrupted the county. The players will have a skewed view of him because of this IMO. I know a lot of people dont want to believe/admit this but he is earning 70k at the minute, it is what it is and this would need to be taken into consideration, again this is only my opinion (not the monetary figure, thats genuine)
 

DooReg

Active Member
I believe Monaghan are in the hunt for Tony Mac.. would be great if Armagh could get him snapped up first
Now that would be some appointment. Imagine Tony going into that. A team that is definitely re-building. He’d earn his stripes there I can tell ya.

It would be great if Armagh snapped him up first along with Geezer. But can you really see that happening? You cross men should know more then us mere mortals.
 

DooReg

Active Member
Im not saying I want him out at all because the progress this year has been visible but I think Kildares players backing of Geezer can be taken with a slight pinch of salt. The reason being that he got them the best of everything in terms of expenses, food etc which in turn almost bankrupted the county. The players will have a skewed view of him because of this IMO. I know a lot of people dont want to believe/admit this but he is earning 70k at the minute, it is what it is and this would need to be taken into consideration, again this is only my opinion (not the monetary figure, thats genuine)
How the hell would you (or anyone else on here) know he’s on £70k? Speculation again to fuel the witch-hunt. The only people that know what he’s on is the county executive. I take it you aren’t on it or you wouldn’t be spouting crap on here.

Sure get the two McEntees in - they’ll do it for nothing
 

h754136

Active Member
Grugan, Campbell, Murnin, Morgan, Forker all 27/28 have at least 5 years left. Clarke just turned 30 on saturday he will have 3/4 years left, only problem will he stay about next year. hopefully he does

Your figures are wildly optimistic. Most players are on the decline by about 32, such is the demand of modern day intercounty football. There's the odd exception, like Brendan Donaghy, maintaining standards, but it is not realistic to expect a team with a significant number of players north of 30 to continue to develop. This current group has no more than three seasons left before men start to drift away and/ or standards begin to slip. That's just the current reality of intercounty football these days - it's a very young man's game.
 
How the hell would you (or anyone else on here) know he’s on £70k? Speculation again to fuel the witch-hunt. The only people that know what he’s on is the county executive. I take it you aren’t on it or you wouldn’t be spouting crap on here.

Sure get the two McEntees in - they’ll do it for nothing
Wouldnt mind paying the McEntees 70k each if it means we dont have to look at the puke we have been watching over the last number of years..
 

Eireogatron

Well-Known Member
How the hell would you (or anyone else on here) know he’s on £70k? Speculation again to fuel the witch-hunt. The only people that know what he’s on is the county executive. I take it you aren’t on it or you wouldn’t be spouting crap on here.

Sure get the two McEntees in - they’ll do it for nothing
Its not speculation at all, dont get your knickers in a twist because somebody knows something you dont, or something you dont want to hear. You also omitted the first part of my post where I said I wasnt advocating getting rid of him. At no point did I say to get either McEntee in (or what money they would command for that matter) and at no point did I say he should get the road because of the figures quoted, just that finance should be considered.
 
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bcb1

Well-Known Member
On what happened up to the Mayo game continuity is probably the best thing in that there should be a core of the current management retained. What that core is would be up for debate but I would suggest that having McCorry there has made a difference. I would suggest that there would be need for fresh ideas around that. I still would be concerned though as I think some people may get carried away with the Qualifier run and think we have had a good year. I personally think we have had an improving year but there are still big question marks. I question the fact that Oisin O Neill was not used. People are saying he has played very little football but so has Ethan Rafferty and lets face it so has Jamie Clarke up to the point of the championship seeing as he hasn't played a single club game. I know that Oisin was fit and raring to go. With respect to Ethan he had very limited impact on Saturday.

The reality is we were closer to relegation to Division 3 than promotion to Division 1, we struggled against a poor enough Division 3 Down team and nearly threw the game away twice, we struggled against Cavan, played well against a Monaghan team on it's last legs and put in a good performance against Mayo but still lost. I think the bare minimum next season is promotion and a run to Ulster, draw dependent. If we got to Division 1 and got to an Ulster Final or close to Super 8's then you have progress. It depends a lot on the draw for championship so I would suggest that the league is a better barometer of where the team is going and taking all sentiment out of it if we don't get to Division 1 I think the team is not progressing. That to me would require a change at the top.
 

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
@bcb1 I was just talking to a guy in the local shop that does a lot of work within the county and he was saying he heard over the weekend that there had been discontent in Monaghan for a number of weeks between players and management with a rumour that some players didn't want to play for the management. Have you heard any similar rumours or is it just that, a rumour with no foundation?
 

armaghtimmy

Well-Known Member
I think talk of division one is a little bit over optimistic. Whether some care to admit it,we are probably about 12-15th in the pecking order based on championship results and last years league table, we were closer to playing in div 3 next year as we were in div 1. We are certainly not a top 8 team..........yet. Personally I would much prefer to reach an Ulster Final and the super 8s than play in div 1. I still like the idea that the league is used as an opportunity to try different tactics and players and hold a few older ones back whilst the ground is heavy, in order to survive in div 1 we would need to be going full tilt with a full team every game.... even then that may not be enough to survive which could be detrimental to the team come the summer time. We are on an upward curve and hopefully we will land a kind draw for ulster next year. I would be more than happy to finish the league in mid div 2 if it meant the likes of these highly rated u20 players we have heard so much about get game time, experience, and are ready to compete seriously for a starting role come the ulster 1st round. Its a long slog taking the scenic route to the super 8s, so each ulster win is vital and a strong competitive squad are key.

But in keeping with the thread title, I would give Geezer another 2 years with the option to exercise a third. Hopefully all the lads stick around also
 

Armagh_paul

Well-Known Member
I don't think Tony Mc will take the Monaghan job. There is going to be a lot of rebuilding to do for Monaghan over the next few years.

Now would be the perfect opportunity for him to step into a role in the Armagh county management as an assistant to McGeeney. Give McGeeney another two years as manager with Tony Mc as assistant and if all isn't going well Tony get his crack at the team.
 
If you call that puke what we seen on Saturday then you are way off the mark fella. Let’s face it, it’s a cross man or no-one with you lot.
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Cross. I have said before on this forum the fact that McEntee and O'Neill were overlooked for the county management after having such success with Cross is beyond me. Can get my head around it. Would be a no brainer for any other county in Ireland. Great opportunity now to approach Tony Mac who has been successful as a manager, has gained experience at the top level with Mayo.
 

bcb1

Well-Known Member
@bcb1 I was just talking to a guy in the local shop that does a lot of work within the county and he was saying he heard over the weekend that there had been discontent in Monaghan for a number of weeks between players and management with a rumour that some players didn't want to play for the management. Have you heard any similar rumours or is it just that, a rumour with no foundation?


had heard the same but passed it off as men pissed off that they weren't getting their place. Like everything there is a limited life cycle for a manager within a group and I think this group had reached the natural end.

I don't think it is unrealistic to aim for Division 1. The best way to improve is to play with and against players playing at a high level. I genuinely think that there is the raw talent there more or less to get to Division 1. Build on the tail end of this season, bring in fresh faces and returning ones from injury, a new voice within the current structure, you just never know.
 

Armagh_paul

Well-Known Member
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Cross. I have said before on this forum the fact that McEntee and O'Neill were overlooked for the county management after having such success with Cross is beyond me. Can get my head around it. Would be a no brainer for any other county in Ireland. Great opportunity now to approach Tony Mac who has been successful as a manager, has gained experience at the top level with Mayo.

Cross have developed some of the finest players Armagh have had since 1998. Some of the most successful club managers in Armagh and Ireland are from Cross. It comes as no surprise that a lot of people would like a few Cross men in the management setup.
 

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
Im not saying I want him out at all because the progress this year has been visible but I think Kildares players backing of Geezer can be taken with a slight pinch of salt. The reason being that he got them the best of everything in terms of expenses, food etc which in turn almost bankrupted the county. The players will have a skewed view of him because of this IMO. I know a lot of people dont want to believe/admit this but he is earning 70k at the minute, it is what it is and this would need to be taken into consideration, again this is only my opinion (not the monetary figure, thats genuine)
Firstly you will know I won't pick an argument and agree almost entirely with you when posting, but I'd question the validity of your absolute assertion of the £70k. Now for the record, it may well be true, I really don't know, but if it is, there's serious trouble ahead for someone and possible major legal implications for county board officers. In particular, the secretary, treasurer and chairperson. There has been no notification of payment of that type or size within the county accounts in the last few years and I've been to a couple of conventions, including the most recent.

If it is true then serious fraud and/or cover up has been committed and I'm not sure if anyone is aware just how serious that is. Along with legal implications, Croke Park will become involved, taking control of the county and all things it does. It's not unprecedented as they are overseeing Cork and appointed the former head of finance from Ulster to get the books sorted over the county ground redevelopment.

I'm honestly not saying you're wrong, but I really hope you are. It would also mean that there really was no excuse for not exploring the options of Tony McEntee based on the funds not being available.

I had always been told that he was self funding, in that he secured sponsorship for his wages/expenses or whatever you want to call them. If that is the case then it's entirely down to him what level he negotiates and if he earned a couple of million, who cares? It isn't costing us anything.

As for leaving Kildare almost bankrupted, that I can completely refute as their accounts show a completely different picture (all county accounts are available and published by Croke Park in line with anti laundering regulations if anyone cares to research it). He had set a plan in place to fund raise for the redevelopment of Newbridge which is due to start shortly, something an almost bankrupt organisation would not be able to do. He also helped fund their state of the art centre of excellence with about 500 pitches (ok so that's an exaggeration as it's maybe 300)

Since taking the role in Armagh, we as a county have gone from being in serious financial trouble where bills were not being paid, to a county back in the black and financially secure, looking positive going forward. That's not his sole doing and a lot of others have had a hand in it, but he does have a role to play.

None of that means he should be kept around, just to keep the finances good. I was one at the end of last year that did wobble over whether he was right for the job or not. After another year, I believe we have improved, but I hate these "get the manager out and get "X" in because they will do so much better" comments, simply because you can neither prove nor disprove those comments so neither argument is valid. They are the same things that were said when Paul Grimley was in charge and Geezer became available. I thought sticking with Paul would have been better and less disruptive to the plans in place at that time. I do think Jim McCorry has made s difference, but wonder what value Denis actually has. Is he really any good? I have no idea except that he seems a great co-ordinator for the county underage structures, but then again there are a lot of bodies involved there too. Does he have to be part of the set up as a paid employee? Is Paddy McKeever effective? I like Paddy and he's another passionate man, but what does he offer? @Throwball mentioned we have a goalkeeping coach for warm ups and therefore possibly training too. That to me is better because it goes on without a deal of fuss. I didn't realise he was even there. We also seem to be heavy on analysts and stats people. I know every team has those now, but again as they get paid are they value for money. What's wrong with the management sitting down and actually managing by breaking down the video and watching what the team is doing? - not saying they don't, just again no idea if they do. The girl that was there in '02 and is part of the backroom (forget her name) maybe as strength coach, is she worth her money? Is that another area we should look at refreshing. I hate referencing them'uns, but St. Mick has regularly changed his team over the last 16 years. Yes it is possible for the same person to be in charge for that long.

Because we seem to have improved, I'd be keen that Geezer stayed, just for continuity, but with a shake up or addition to the backroom. Who that would be is obviously up for debate and like picking the best 15, everyone will have an opinion and not all necessarily the same. None are correct, neither are any of those opinions incorrect. They are opinions.
 

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
Progress to division 1 would be desirable, but finishing 3rd and missing out by a single point or score difference wouldn't worry me too much if we gave it our all. Division two won't be a pushover next season either. An Ulster final appearance would be the next step after this year and getting to the semi-final stage. I don't think however this should be draw dependant and all efforts should be focused on that aim. Anything after that is "back in bonus territory" and hopefully a longer summer.
 
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