Is it time to consider new management?

JoeH

Well-Known Member
Its not speculation at all, dont get your knickers in a twist because somebody knows something you dont, or something you dont want to hear. You also omitted the first part of my post where I said I wasnt advocating getting rid of him. At no point did I say to get either McEntee in (or what money they would command for that matter) and at no point did I say he should get the road because of the figures quoted, just that finance should be considered.
If it's not speculation then spit it out. You didn't answer @DooReg query.
We can all have an opinion on style of football and so on but to make such a statement without facts is not needed at this or anytime.
There can only be one person ever in charge of a team - the rest may have roles but if two or more are in charge then the issue of following directions becomes a problem.
 

DooReg

Active Member
Its not speculation at all, dont get your knickers in a twist because somebody knows something you dont, or something you dont want to hear. You also omitted the first part of my post where I said I wasnt advocating getting rid of him. At no point did I say to get either McEntee in (or what money they would command for that matter) and at no point did I say he should get the road because of the figures quoted, just that finance should be considered.
You don’t know. You heard of a fella who heard of someone else likely. If you’ve got the evidence publish it - otherwise it’s hearsay and speculation.

Finances are critically important to any senior team, whether you are Dublin or Leitrim. One thing about McGeeney - he will get of his arse and get the money in. Would others do the same??
 

DooReg

Active Member
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Cross. I have said before on this forum the fact that McEntee and O'Neill were overlooked for the county management after having such success with Cross is beyond me. Can get my head around it. Would be a no brainer for any other county in Ireland. Great opportunity now to approach Tony Mac who has been successful as a manager, has gained experience at the top level with Mayo.
Is that experience at the top table with a team that is on its last legs (as people referred to yesterday) or top table in a quality team????? How did that inter-county experience go??

Geezer was lambasted for his poor record with Kildare and now you are advocating a guy with a worse inter-county record. Tony was drafted in to help add something to Mayo to get them across the line. That didn’t happen. So let’s all take a moment to reflect.

Don’t get me wrong - I do believe McEntee has a lot to offer the county set-up, but for me it’s as a number 2 at this time, earn your county management stripes and be there to take this team on in a few years. But, we all know that won’t happen. Tony has as big an ego as Geezer - otherwise the two men would settle their differences.
 

Onlooker

Active Member
To answer this thread.

no.

Armagh could easily have gotten to the Super 8's with abit more luck of the green in games, with the draws and possibly have gotten a referee that can count time better than Mauric Deegan..We would have won that game on saturday by 2-3 points if there was 5 more mins without a doubt! Blaming Geezer is easy. I hope he stays on, the work he has done with the players is phenomenal.
 

Eireogatron

Well-Known Member
If it's not speculation then spit it out. You didn't answer @DooReg query.
We can all have an opinion on style of football and so on but to make such a statement without facts is not needed at this or anytime.
There can only be one person ever in charge of a team - the rest may have roles but if two or more are in charge then the issue of following directions becomes a problem.
answer what question? Again, read my statement, I didnt advocate anybody else coming into the management team, or even suggest Geezer be removed from the position.

Additionally, you want me to blurt out names of people on an anonymous forum? Not happening, if you dont believe me thats fine but its the truth.

If you read through my posts of this year I have in no way criticised Geezer, quite the contrary I have continually said that the team is going in the right direction and continually backed him in the constant Oisin O'Neill / Ross McQuillan arguments so I have no problem with him leading this county whatsoever.
 

JIMMY MAC

Member
Your figures are wildly optimistic. Most players are on the decline by about 32, such is the demand of modern day intercounty football. There's the odd exception, like Brendan Donaghy, maintaining standards, but it is not realistic to expect a team with a significant number of players north of 30 to continue to develop. This current group has no more than three seasons left before men start to drift away and/ or standards begin to slip. That's just the current reality of intercounty football these days - it's a very young man's game.


Aye your right mayo players been useless since they hit 30, Monaghan players on the older side got to all Ireland semi final. Did you look at Dublin age of players they seem to be doing ok.

PADDY ANDREWS 30
KEVIN MCMANAMON 32
MICHAEL DARRAGH MACAULEY 32
CIAN O’SULLIVAN 31
PHILLY MCMAHON 31

Maybe it is just trying to pick faults in players? If you fit enough without injuries it is possible to play to 33/34
 

Eireogatron

Well-Known Member
You don’t know. You heard of a fella who heard of someone else likely. If you’ve got the evidence publish it - otherwise it’s hearsay and speculation.

Finances are critically important to any senior team, whether you are Dublin or Leitrim. One thing about McGeeney - he will get of his arse and get the money in. Would others do the same??
I didnt hear from a fella who heard from a fella. I've been given solid, reliable information from someone involved with the county from a long time. I'm not going to publish this on an anonymous, unofficial forum.

Again (yet again as you cant seem to grasp this) I'm not advocating the removal of the manager.
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
On what happened up to the Mayo game continuity is probably the best thing in that there should be a core of the current management retained. What that core is would be up for debate but I would suggest that having McCorry there has made a difference. I would suggest that there would be need for fresh ideas around that. I still would be concerned though as I think some people may get carried away with the Qualifier run and think we have had a good year. I personally think we have had an improving year but there are still big question marks. I question the fact that Oisin O Neill was not used. People are saying he has played very little football but so has Ethan Rafferty and lets face it so has Jamie Clarke up to the point of the championship seeing as he hasn't played a single club game. I know that Oisin was fit and raring to go. With respect to Ethan he had very limited impact on Saturday.

The reality is we were closer to relegation to Division 3 than promotion to Division 1, we struggled against a poor enough Division 3 Down team and nearly threw the game away twice, we struggled against Cavan, played well against a Monaghan team on it's last legs and put in a good performance against Mayo but still lost. I think the bare minimum next season is promotion and a run to Ulster, draw dependent. If we got to Division 1 and got to an Ulster Final or close to Super 8's then you have progress. It depends a lot on the draw for championship so I would suggest that the league is a better barometer of where the team is going and taking all sentiment out of it if we don't get to Division 1 I think the team is not progressing. That to me would require a change at the top.

Regarding Clarke he at least played the league.
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
I didnt hear from a fella who heard from a fella. I've been given solid, reliable information from someone involved with the county from a long time. I'm not going to publish this on an anonymous, unofficial forum.

Again (yet again as you cant seem to grasp this) I'm not advocating the removal of the manager.
With respect I have heard this from a few people who have been given this solid and reliable Information. The difference is the number. You say 70k. Others have said 60-90. Completely understand you not saying where you get your info and not would I ask you to. But you do understand why people would be sceptical
 
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Peter grimes

Well-Known Member
I think the management position should be reviewed and kept under annual review. Some reviews result in continuity, some in minor change and some in a full change. But the review should still take place.

Management themselves should look at what they got wrong, what they have learned, what developments they have seen in other sides and matches etc

The lead manager should assess his management team and whether they give him what he needs for the year ahead.

And finally the county itself (through a committee or a commissioned individual) should undertake a review and hold the manager to account. This should only be done after the manager completed the first 2 elements.

This is just good governance and nothing to do with McGeeney or his management team.

Personally I have seen improvements in style of play and greater trust in young players. I don’t buy the language that McGeeney has “discovered” Jarlath or Rian (any more than I believe they are the “product” of the Academy). But still improvements. I will give credit for Nugent being pushed forward into the match day 15.

I think there needs to further improvement on our attacking game plan and we need to seriously look how our county teams are trained to tackle and how the tackle is policed in club football.

But critically we need whatever management we have to seriously address our own and opposition kick outs. If we had addressed this one issue we would still be in the championship (by beating Cavan in the first game).

The reservations I still do have about the current management team are encapsulated in this issue
 

Armagh_paul

Well-Known Member
Progress to division 1 would be desirable, but finishing 3rd and missing out by a single point or score difference wouldn't worry me too much if we gave it our all. Division two won't be a pushover next season either. An Ulster final appearance would be the next step after this year and getting to the semi-final stage. I don't think however this should be draw dependant and all efforts should be focused on that aim. Anything after that is "back in bonus territory" and hopefully a longer summer.

I think playing in Division 1 is essential in today's game. There is a reason why some teams take it more seriously than us so it must count for something.

I have said it before, it is no longer viable to peak during the championship, we have to peak for our first game. We can all agree that as the championship progressed Armagh did get better. However, if we played closer to our full potential we could have made a final appearance.

The qualifiers can sometimes be kind to teams and sometimes it is not but any team not at their peak will be found out before R4. In the provincials we know who we could be potentially up against and somewhat prepare - not possible in the qualifiers.

I have a question for forum posters - just curious to see your POV. Would you say any of McGeeneys management team would be better than him overall? I know everyone brings their own special attributes.

Edit: I should word that better. Is there anyone on the current management team that makes McGeeney a better manager with their presence?
 
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niall1980

Well-Known Member
I think playing in Division 1 is essential in today's game. There is a reason why some teams take it more seriously than us so it must count for something.

I have said it before, it is no longer viable to peak during the championship, we have to peak for our first game. We can all agree that as the championship progressed Armagh did get better. However, if we played closer to our full potential we could have made a final appearance.

The qualifiers can sometimes be kind to teams and sometimes it is not but any team not at their peak will be found out before R4. In the provincials we know who we could be potentially up against and somewhat prepare - not possible in the qualifiers.

I have a question for forum posters - just curious to see your POV. Would you say any of McGeeneys management team would be better than him overall? I know everyone brings their own special attributes.

Edit: I should word that better. Is there anyone on the current management team that makes McGeeney a better manager with their presence?
For your last paragraph I would at McCorry.
What role does McKeever and Hollywood have? Who else is on the management team
 

DooReg

Active Member
answer what question? Again, read my statement, I didnt advocate anybody else coming into the management team, or even suggest Geezer be removed from the position.

Additionally, you want me to blurt out names of people on an anonymous forum? Not happening, if you dont believe me thats fine but its the truth.

If you read through my posts of this year I have in no way criticised Geezer, quite the contrary I have continually said that the team is going in the right direction and continually backed him in the constant Oisin O'Neill / Ross McQuillan arguments so I have no problem with him leading this county whatsoever.
I heard he was on £150k - telling you, it's the truth. Right, so who is right then.........
 

Nab14

Active Member
2 year contract with review to see progress. Squad play for geezer (barely any players opted out) and trust him. In likes of Roscommon (mcstay) and Fermanagh (McGrath) players have forced managers out, but Kildare players rave about geezer an Armagh players seem to respect him.

Would like to see Tony mcentee in, do cross lot think he would accept? Also Aidan o’rourke but obviously he left after 2016. Mcgeeney entitled to pick his own, people who he trusts and share same vision for style of play etc

The amount of fundraising he has done for Kildare and Armagh is immense, and doesn’t just go into his pocket, for example the performance centre being built. With the work he does behind the scenes and management, if he was on 70k a year I’m not one bit bothered.

Quote from Aidan o’rourke:
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/armagh-s-orchard-is-blossoming-nicely/
“Kieran has always said from the outset that he wanted to leave Armagh in a more sustainable and better place and that probably the next man in would get the full benefit of the work he wanted to do, he said that from Day One,” - this doesn’t sound like the dictator/money grabber people seem to portray him as.
 

h754136

Active Member
Aye your right mayo players been useless since they hit 30, Monaghan players on the older side got to all Ireland semi final. Did you look at Dublin age of players they seem to be doing ok.

PADDY ANDREWS 30
KEVIN MCMANAMON 32
MICHAEL DARRAGH MACAULEY 32
CIAN O’SULLIVAN 31
PHILLY MCMAHON 31

Maybe it is just trying to pick faults in players? If you fit enough without injuries it is possible to play to 33/34

Sorry Jimmy, but this reply is very strange. If anything, you help to prove my point.

This Mayo team are unquestionably in decline - the perfect illustration of why you can't expect a side with a significant number of 30+ players to remain competitive at the top level. No Connacht titles in four years and a failure to make the last eight in 2018. They will also very possibly bow out before the Super 8s again this year.

The Monaghan side that started last year's All Ireland semi-final had maybe two players in their thirties - Corey and Mone. The rest of their side aren't much older than our current side. Conor McManus and Darren Hughes are the same age as Jamie Clarke and Mark Shields. Colin Walshe, Keiran Hughes, Dermot Malone and Keiran Duffy all played minor football the year before our 2009 minor group. Rory Beggan, Ryan Wylie, Ryan McAnespie are younger still. Despite a lot of men only touching their thirties, this Monaghan team are already look past their best.

And of the five Dublin men you name, only two start regularly. The others are bit part players, already replaced in the starting team by younger models (although McManamon nor Andrews never really held down starting places). If anything, Dublin are the prime example of the importance of youth in the modern game. They continually refresh their side with younger players so that they don't have to rely on men into the twilight of their careers.

I'm not really trying to pick faults here, I'd love it if Jamie Clarke and Stefan Campbell are still kicking three or four points a game at 34. But realistically, that is unlikely. I thought it was important to highlight the age profile of the current side in this discussion, particular in light of many of the comments here and elsewhere in recent days made by those who seemed to be under the impression that we have a young team with most players a few years away from their peak. That's just not the case.
 

ragingbull

Well-Known Member
It's what McGeeney does on the side line not what he does behind the scenes that matters to Armagh Supporters
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
Sorry Jimmy, but this reply is very strange. If anything, you help to prove my point.

This Mayo team are unquestionably in decline - the perfect illustration of why you can't expect a side with a significant number of 30+ players to remain competitive at the top level. No Connacht titles in four years and a failure to make the last eight in 2018. They will also very possibly bow out before the Super 8s again this year.

The Monaghan side that started last year's All Ireland semi-final had maybe two players in their thirties - Corey and Mone. The rest of their side aren't much older than our current side. Conor McManus and Darren Hughes are the same age as Jamie Clarke and Mark Shields. Colin Walshe, Keiran Hughes, Dermot Malone and Keiran Duffy all played minor football the year before our 2009 minor group. Rory Beggan, Ryan Wylie, Ryan McAnespie are younger still. Despite a lot of men only touching their thirties, this Monaghan team are already look past their best.

And of the five Dublin men you name, only two start regularly. The others are bit part players, already replaced in the starting team by younger models (although McManamon nor Andrews never really held down starting places). If anything, Dublin are the prime example of the importance of youth in the modern game. They continually refresh their side with younger players so that they don't have to rely on men into the twilight of their careers.

I'm not really trying to pick faults here, I'd love it if Jamie Clarke and Stefan Campbell are still kicking three or four points a game at 34. But realistically, that is unlikely. I thought it was important to highlight the age profile of the current side in this discussion, particular in light of many of the comments here and elsewhere in recent days made by those who seemed to be under the impression that we have a young team with most players a few years away from their peak. That's just not the case.
Dublin rely very much on one particular golden oldie and when he goes we will see just how much he was relied upon
 
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