Is it time to consider new management?

On the Blaine debate - he’s a good keeper lads. Was unlucky for the first goal. Let’s blame him rather than the marking - but yes he should have done better but it went through the legs. It’s one of those. Second one Mayo man just threw the foot at it and looped over him. He didn’t mean that.

Hi kickouts I thought we’re generally very good. One really bad one - one over the line but second half were excellent.

I’d stick with him but I agree healthy competition wouldn’t do any harm.

Geezer’s main aim over the next few months is to see as many keepers as he can and let’s get a solid number 2.

Suil eile. said:

Geezer has been trying to get Tony Mc on board for years! I can't comment why he has declined the opportunity.

Click to expand...

Can’t comment as in you don’t know why or prefer not to comment? Intriguing.

I heard the two men don’t see eye to eye so I can’t believe Geezer would approach him. But let’s face it, if Carlsberg did a management team it would be those two. Sort it out lads and there’s a team there that could win stuff.

ragingbull said:

https://twitter.com/irishnewssport/status/1146521469905702912?s=19 anyone know who the former player is

Click to expand...

Don’t let @DooReg read it anyway, he end up suffering a stroke

Rufus T Firefly said:

If this is the case, and the Irish News knows the name of the individual, then I think they should have told said former player that unless you're willing to put your name to it, forget it.

A former player publicly stating he wants Geezer out, but wants to remain anonymous whilst doing so, does not reflect well on the character of said individual.

Click to expand...

Yeah, the article means nothing if there is no name printed.

Sure anyone of us could send a letter saying we are a disgruntled ex-county player and want McGeeney gone.

Eireogatron said:

I work with a Derrynoose fella and I think the keepers talents have been embellished slightly. He says he has a great kickout but shot stopping and high ball arent great. Not sure on age. Also, with all due respect to the junior league (we're going there next year after all) the margin between the top 5 and the rest is so big that half-decent goalies can look phenomenal, kickouts-wise. That said, I am also going on second hand information.

In the last couple of years the lad who does nets for Middletown really impressed me. Good shot stopper, high ball and also takes most of their free kicks. Very good keeper

Click to expand...

Now no harm Eireog that’s just down right snobbery. You hear all the time if your good enough you are old enough - now you want to cast aside any junior player because of the league they play in. I do recall a Clady Fella playing in the 02 and 03 team (Philip Loughran). Thank god Big Joe looked at ability rather than the league he was playing in.

I’m not saying rush in and try the Derrynoose keeper (he’s only starting in that position a few years but he’s no bad keeper) but surely when as a county we don’t have a sub-keeper, there is a need to get around the county and nail one down. If Blaine picks up an injury there would be a hundred messages on her why we don’t have sub-keeper.

As for Ethan - two things. He probably isn’t interested and I’m told he’s as blind as a bat and doesn’t (or can’t) wear contacts!

The Big Easy said:

Now no harm Eireog that’s just down right snobbery. You hear all the time if your good enough you are old enough - now you want to cast aside any junior player because of the league they play in. I do recall a Clady Fella playing in the 02 and 03 team (Philip Loughran). Thank god Big Joe looked at ability rather than the league he was playing in.

I’m not saying rush in and try the Derrynoose keeper (he’s only starting in that position a few years but he’s no bad keeper) but surely when as a county we don’t have a sub-keeper, there is a need to get around the county and nail one down. If Blaine picks up an injury there would be a hundred messages on her why we don’t have sub-keeper.

As for Ethan - two things. He probably isn’t interested and I’m told he’s as blind as a bat and doesn’t (or can’t) wear contacts!

Click to expand...

whoa whoa whoa, that comment is absolutely incorrect - how am I being a snob? We are going to be playing in the Junior next year for a start. And secondly, I didnt say not to try the guy out, just that I was told he has a good restart but the fundamentals need work. Keepers for the bigger/better teams in the Junior generally have an easier job - that is from my own personal experience of the division. And I'm in no way suggesting players from the junior shouldnt be considered, if you read back a few comments I praise Geezer for bringing the likes of Jemar Hall (a junior player currently) in and sticking with him. I also think you misinterpret me, when I said "not sure on age", I meant I dont know what age he is. Finally I caveated my response by saying I was admittedly going on second hand info.

Furthermore, I also recommended the Middletown keeper who will be in Intermediate B (division 4 technically) next year.

It may be legit and it makes a lot of valid points but the fact that the 'author' has refused to add his name to it leaves it a bit worthless and the IN should have had the balls to insist upon the name going on it or not print at all. I have been openly critical of a number of matters over the years about the county on here and on the GAABoard but I will stand over what I say. I have openly said to people involved with the county set up where I see problems....I actually do not believe that Geezer is that issue....rather the back room is. McCorry has made a difference this year. I believe that the 'author' of the letter has the right idea of what Geezer should be, a director of football. I have always said he should be retained in such a capacity, similar to what Clive Woodward was in the English Rugby set up that won the World Cup. An organizer, a facilitator, a manager of coaches. Leave the coaching to the people that can coach.

A PROMINENT former Armagh player has called on the Orchard county board to “be ruthless and make a change at the top ‘by getting rid of manager Kieran McGeeney’

In a letter to the Irish News, the former Orchard star, who did not wish to be named, said that while McGeeney had been “a great leader” as a player, his loyalty to those in the current Armagh setup had become a fault.

“It can be hard to put your finger on what exactly has gone wrong but one thing is clear, his time has run out,” said the letter.

“At the time of his appointment many thought Geezer would use the opportunity to bring in a new backroom team. He didn’t. It seems he is a seriously loyal man but his tenure shows he has been loyal to a fault.

“Had he freshened up his support staff maybe he would have had success at an earlier stage, maybe a coach and a fitness expert whom the players respected, but he stuck with the people he trusted.

“He also laboured with players who were loyal to him, putting them on before those who were better than they were. It was only when us supporters were roaring on to the pitch that he reluctantly dropped them. This loyalty served neither him nor the players.”

The former player also hit out at Geezer’s post-match interview following the weekend’s narrow defeat in Mayo, where McGeeney questioned the referee’s decision to only add four minutes of stoppage time at the end of the game.

Maurice Deegan’s performance has been a major talking point across the board since last Saturday, but the former player believes blaming referees has been an ongoing narrative of McGeeney’s reign.

“The post-match interview to Sky Sports was most revealing. What grinds me down is the hard luck stories.

“’Oh the referee was against us’, ‘we couldn’t buy a free’, etc, as if it the game wasn’t riddled with mistakes on and off the pitch.

“Would it not have been better to push up on the Mayo kickouts when we had them on the rack? Or to change up the system of play to keep Mayo thinking, rather than counting the number of times that the referee got it wrong?”

A role as a director of football would have been more suitable for McGeeney, believes the ex-Orchard star.

“The penny finally dropped with me when in that Sky interview ‘Geezer’ said the county board are ‘in the black’ now and he went on to talk about a failed development structure which has only recently undergone a restructuring.

“When have you ever heard of a manager talking about the county’s finances as if it was a priority for them? This statement epitomises what has been Geezers strengths within his time as senior manager.

“His strengths have been in the role of football director where he has been involved in restructuring the county board, the development squads, the finances, and so on.

“His one glaring omission has been a lack of absolute focus on the senior team, which I feel should have been his only priority.

“The county board need to be mature about the next decision they make. Don’t hide behind loyalty or suggest that the clubs make the final call; it is the county board that makes the recommendation.

“Time to be ruthless and to make a change at the top. This team is capable of winning if they are properly guided.

“I want Armagh to be successful in 2020, not to be more of the same.”

What difference does it make who wrote the letter? the points are either valid or not, that’s like saying anyone who writes something negative on here should be made publish their name. Don’t let the mystery of who wrote it distract from the content.

Eireogatron said:

whoa whoa whoa, that comment is absolutely incorrect - how am I being a snob? We are going to be playing in the Junior next year for a start. And secondly, I didnt say not to try the guy out, just that I was told he has a good restart but the fundamentals need work. Keepers for the bigger/better teams in the Junior generally have an easier job - that is from my own personal experience of the division. And I'm in no way suggesting players from the junior shouldnt be considered, if you read back a few comments I praise Geezer for bringing the likes of Jemar Hall (a junior player currently) in and sticking with him. I also think you misinterpret me, when I said "not sure on age", I meant I dont know what age he is. Finally I caveated my response by saying I was admittedly going on second hand info.

Furthermore, I also recommended the Middletown keeper who will be in Intermediate B (division 4 technically) next year.

Click to expand...

There were two other keepers on the panel this year, Sean OHanlon from my own club and Ryan Kearney from Pearse Ogs, who is excellent whenever I've seen him. Seems the lads were told that it was management's opinion that a dedicated sub keeper wasn't needed and that the 16 jersey afforded an opportunity for an extra outfielder. I know Sean OH (sub keeper for the league) walked shortly afterwards and Kearney seems to have stayed on as he has been warming Blaine up before the Down, Cavan, Monaghan and Mayo games.

Wouldn’t put it past the Irish news to approach a former player (likely someone irrelevant that people wouldn’t take seriously) and ask them to write this letter. Whoever the player is, consider them to have lost my respect for them due to this cowardly act. At the end of the day the current players opinion matters more than former players.

Apologies for the post length, I am not that busy in work this morning. I would have a number of reservations about appointing McGeeney again for next season. Whilst we have had a few outings in the championship this season, we have beaten a down team that is still in Division 3 next season (we were a man up and nearly threw it away twice), and beaten a Monaghan team whom all will agree had tired legs and were out on their feet. The same Monaghan team has also been subject to rumours of discontent all year. No one on the forum in my limited time back seems surprised that we ran Mayo close and could have won, nor am I surprised. It was not a Mayo team at its peak and was shorn of a lot of talent through injury, albeit we had our own concerns with Murnin & Morgan. To put this in perspective, we got beaten by Cavan after a replay after we had contrived to lose 2 winning positons. This screams tactical naivety.

We seem to be at a similar precipice to 2014 after a narrow one point defeat to a higher level of opposition (Donegal). Into 2015 we transitioned and went backwards. We lost a number of starting players after the all-Ireland Quarter Final and we changed system. We never stayed more than one season in Division 2 and indeed had back to back campaigns in Div 3. I say this because this is not a young Armagh team, there are players who have been around for a while and who will enter the twilight of their career if they are not their already.

The major problem that still exists with Armagh football is an ability to break down defensively minded opposition. It comes as no surprise that in games we have won and played well in but come up short, we have been playing against teams who like to play football. We beat a Kildare team in Croke Park that allows teams to play (we subsequently got hammered by Tyrone in a quarter final). We beat Clare last year on a scorching day as they allowed us to play football. We played well against a Roscommon team who allowed us to play football (Roscommon were subsequently found out).

Whether we as supporters like it or not there will be some change in the panel next season as various players will be added and some will leave. Division 2 in my opinion was much weaker this season that it will be next season. We threw away 2 leads this year in division 2, and when on top against Meath and looking likely, we reverted to type. We lost a dead rubber against Cork that meant nothing.

I believe a massive part of the tactical naivety of this team is on opposition kick outs, with the players we have and the style of play we are trying to implement then we cannot concede possession at most opposition kick outs. It is putting us under too much pressure and we have been undisciplined in our defence with the concession of numerous scoring frees per game, soft or not, I believe our backline concede too many frees as they tackle on the boundaries of the rules and we get punished accordingly. This to me would suggest that more work needs to be done on the manner in which we tackle and the tenacity, timing and areas of the pitch we tackle in as well. This has been an ongoing problem for years and has not been addressed.

Personally I also think we are too slow to transition from defence to attack, we labour with the ball with lateral handpassing when a quicker and more direct opportunity is available. This post is long and I apologise, however it is purely football related and hopefully it will help focus the debate to more tactical and systemic issues. I’m not a negative person at all, but my optimism for the future is nuanced ny the fact that I believe we still have serious underlying issues that have not been addressed by any management team in the best part of 6 or 7 years.

Nab14 said:

Wouldn’t put it past the Irish news to approach a former player (likely someone irrelevant that people wouldn’t take seriously) and ask them to write this letter. .

Click to expand...

I can guarantee you that would not have happened.

Reading the forums and talking to gaels throughout the year we need to wake up to the fact there is an agenda at play in Armagh. I'm unsure if it was an "ex player" who wrote the article but I can guess whoever did send the article is pushing pressure onto the county board to consider another option.

Lets not be naive we know who some parts of the county want as manager who I happen to think will be a great Armagh manager in time. Every Armagh person can see the potential of Armagh over the next 5 years and some are desperate to open up this opportunity to their favoured candidiate.

What I would say is Geezer has been there through 5 very hard years and should not be stepping aside now! The groundwork is almost compete so why should he hand over his hard work at this stage for someone to reap the benefits that has probably happened previous managers.

Thankfully the vast majority of Armagh gaels and players will support Geezer getting another term which I think will happen with Geezer deciding on his background team and then this being reviewes after his new terms finishes.

McCoyDromintee said:

I can guarantee you that would not have happened.

Click to expand...

Can you really?
And tell us why they wouldn’t publish the name

Going back to the Derrynoose keeper, the lad destroyed us with his kickouts when we played them in Granemore last month. He can kick them on his left and right quickly if required. Made a great save when the game was in the melting pot and made a run out the field that resulted in Derrynoose getting a penalty (that was saved by our keeper).

Blaine is good but his kickouts crucify armagh.

niall1980 said:

A PROMINENT former Armagh player has called on the Orchard county board to “be ruthless and make a change at the top ‘by getting rid of manager Kieran McGeeney’

In a letter to the Irish News, the former Orchard star, who did not wish to be named, said that while McGeeney had been “a great leader” as a player, his loyalty to those in the current Armagh setup had become a fault.

“It can be hard to put your finger on what exactly has gone wrong but one thing is clear, his time has run out,” said the letter.

“At the time of his appointment many thought Geezer would use the opportunity to bring in a new backroom team. He didn’t. It seems he is a seriously loyal man but his tenure shows he has been loyal to a fault.

“Had he freshened up his support staff maybe he would have had success at an earlier stage, maybe a coach and a fitness expert whom the players respected, but he stuck with the people he trusted.

“He also laboured with players who were loyal to him, putting them on before those who were better than they were. It was only when us supporters were roaring on to the pitch that he reluctantly dropped them. This loyalty served neither him nor the players.”

The former player also hit out at Geezer’s post-match interview following the weekend’s narrow defeat in Mayo, where McGeeney questioned the referee’s decision to only add four minutes of stoppage time at the end of the game.

Maurice Deegan’s performance has been a major talking point across the board since last Saturday, but the former player believes blaming referees has been an ongoing narrative of McGeeney’s reign.

“The post-match interview to Sky Sports was most revealing. What grinds me down is the hard luck stories.

“’Oh the referee was against us’, ‘we couldn’t buy a free’, etc, as if it the game wasn’t riddled with mistakes on and off the pitch.

“Would it not have been better to push up on the Mayo kickouts when we had them on the rack? Or to change up the system of play to keep Mayo thinking, rather than counting the number of times that the referee got it wrong?”

A role as a director of football would have been more suitable for McGeeney, believes the ex-Orchard star.

“The penny finally dropped with me when in that Sky interview ‘Geezer’ said the county board are ‘in the black’ now and he went on to talk about a failed development structure which has only recently undergone a restructuring.

“When have you ever heard of a manager talking about the county’s finances as if it was a priority for them? This statement epitomises what has been Geezers strengths within his time as senior manager.

“His strengths have been in the role of football director where he has been involved in restructuring the county board, the development squads, the finances, and so on.

“His one glaring omission has been a lack of absolute focus on the senior team, which I feel should have been his only priority.

“The county board need to be mature about the next decision they make. Don’t hide behind loyalty or suggest that the clubs make the final call; it is the county board that makes the recommendation.

“Time to be ruthless and to make a change at the top. This team is capable of winning if they are properly guided.

“I want Armagh to be successful in 2020, not to be more of the same.”

Click to expand...

Two sides to this.
1) It is very irresponsible of the newspaper to publish this as a back page story-especially when it concerns a currently in-post manager who may be considering his options at this moment. This should belong in the letters section or the 'on the fence' platform they used to run (I don't read the IN often enough to know if this is still a feature). It makes you wonder why the Irish News did this? Would they or have they ever made a back page story out of a letter from an unnamed source concerning any other manager?
2) While there are many points I disagree-there are a few points that are not entirely off the mark. I want Geezer to stay-I think if he was to leave the set up entirely it would be a loss to the county. But....I think there needs to be a honest appraisal of what he does well and not so well and an even more forensic examination of the current structures and backroom. For those that want Geezer out-it would be naïve to think that simply replacing the man will fix things; the 'issues' lie further than him alone and manifest themselves in the backroom coaching and development structures. I have no doubt that the people involved are honest and hardworking, but are what they doing working? In my opinion no. The idea of Geezer as a Director of Football is a good one-but loyalty to backroom team should be replaced by a hard pragmatism.

niall1980 said:

Can you really?
And tell us why they wouldn’t publish the name

Click to expand...

Yes I can.

As far as not printing the name, it’s not uncommon for that to happen on letters pages if a name and address is supplied to the editor. There’s the debate, should it have been made into a story. In my opinion definitely not.

However, as I say, I can guarantee you the Irish News did not approach a former player to write a letter.

ShiftYa said:

What difference does it make who wrote the letter? the points are either valid or not, that’s like saying anyone who writes something negative on here should be made publish their name. Don’t let the mystery of who wrote it distract from the content.

Click to expand...

Allow me to explain. The reference to a 'former Armagh player' gives the letter a degree of weight that means it is now on the back page of a national daily and will generate pressure on those impacted, where it might not otherwise be. As an example, you equated this issue with posters here being asked to reveal their name because the content of their post is negative. However remind me, if you would, of the last time that an anonymous poster's opinion on this site generated a story in the Irish News?

If the letter had a positive, it was that it enlightened me personally as to the sheer heights that irony can reach, when our anonymous friend, in advising the County Board on the next course of action, stated "Don’t hide...".

Indeed. 'Physician, heal thyself'.

Rufus T Firefly said:

Allow me to explain. The reference to a 'former Armagh player' gives the letter a degree of weight that means it is now on the back page of a national daily and will generate pressure on those impacted, where it might not otherwise be. As an example, you equated this issue with posters here being asked to reveal their name because the content of their post is negative. However remind me, if you would, of the last time that an anonymous poster's opinion on this site generated a story in the Irish News?

If the letter had a positive, it was that it enlightened me personally as to the sheer heights that irony can reach, when our anonymous friend, in advising the County Board on the next course of action, stated "Don’t hide...".

Indeed. 'Physician, heal thyself'.

Click to expand...

Well it all comes down to do you think this particular newspaper would fabricate a source of not.

Given the recent suspicions of late that the Russians may be melding in the appointment of important positions such as that of the White House, is it possible they’ve went one step further in an attempt to influence the appointment of the Armagh senior manager? And this letter was ordered to be fabricated and sent to the IN by Putin himself?