Is it time to consider new management?

Mickey Gormley

Active Member
In the late 90’s early 00’s TNN, Keady, Ballyhegan and Madden were regularly playing Senior football. I played against all of them in senior league and played championship against Ballyhegan and Madden, with Madden making the final in 1998 I believe. I used to hate playing TNN in Garvaghey as it was always a war. The reality is the first 15 of the 2002 team were all either current senior club players or high end intermediate with 9 of the starters or subs from ourselves, Mullaghbawn (or Na Fianna in Geezers case) and Clans. In Clarke and AOR you had 2 players from the next best club teams in the county. Paul McGrane was a once in a generation player who was one of the most consistent MFs of the time, bettered only by Darragh O Sé in my opinion. McKeever, Toal and Andy Mc were great talents who would have been on any team at the time more or less and then you have Stevie Mc, one of the finest forwards in the game.

2002 was built from a team of winners at the highest level and unreal players. The current bunch are not there yet. I genuinely believe that a breakthrough at club level at Ulster and AI, not being arrogant but most likely by us, will bring an arrogance to the team. To assist with that I really think there needs to be a Cross man on the sideline but I don’t see that happening

I actually agree. With this I dont particularly like the arrogance of cross but I guess they have delivered so I cant knock it. I think the only way we will move to the next level is with a Cross man at the helm as I dont think they truly commit until this is the case. Listen I could be wrong but I think Tony McEntee is a winner and has won a lot more at managment than Kieran Mc Geeney and that is a fact albeit club level. I really hope he doesnt go to another county and we really regret it. PS if McGeeney stays I wont be too bothered but would like to see Tony Mc if it was possible as I think he could get more top players in the higher divisions. There is bound to be players from Senior League who for some reason isnt playing intercounty for Armagh
 

JoeH

Well-Known Member
I actually agree. With this I dont particularly like the arrogance of cross but I guess they have delivered so I cant knock it. I think the only way we will move to the next level is with a Cross man at the helm as I dont think they truly commit until this is the case. Listen I could be wrong but I think Tony McEntee is a winner and has won a lot more at managment than Kieran Mc Geeney and that is a fact albeit club level. I really hope he doesnt go to another county and we really regret it. PS if McGeeney stays I wont be too bothered but would like to see Tony Mc if it was possible as I think he could get more top players in the higher divisions. There is bound to be players from Senior League who for some reason isnt playing intercounty for Armagh
Who are these players?
 

Mickey Gormley

Active Member
Who are these players?
So do you think that everyone currently on the panel is the strongest in Armagh? There couldnt possibly be any stronger players in Senior Level? Im just saying that it needs freshened up 6 years is along time and I think Tony could do that.
 

M18

Active Member
If we look at Tyr**e - where is the majority of their squad made up from? They are maybe different as play very few games without county men so as someone mentioned. Teams being relegated without county men available makes things look different - like Forkhill


I am not wanting change but from senior league who arent in squad

Decky McKenna
Gavin mcpartlan
Kyle Carrager
Karl Loughran
Stephen Morris
James Lavery
Oisin McKeever
 

JoeH

Well-Known Member
So do you think that everyone currently on the panel is the strongest in Armagh? There couldnt possibly be any stronger players in Senior Level? Im just saying that it needs freshened up 6 years is along time and I think Tony could do that.
You wrote about players not being involved so just thought you knew some names.
Ask Kilkenny about Cody
 

Eireogatron

Well-Known Member
I honestly dont see the big deal with Intermediate/Junior club members making up the county squad. Virtually all will play little to no club games apart from championship anyway and at that, I dont see that improving their game. The obvious exception are the Cross boys 97-07, but we're talking about the most successful side in history there. Cross won the AI in 11 & 12 with a number of players in the county panel and Armagh won nothing. Most of the county guys will also have played top level colleges as well as being in county panels thoughout their footballing lives.

The fact of the matter is that you are picking the best individuals from across the county so it really doesnt matter what level the club is - the talent could be a 2nd generation county player who's father played senior football but now the club is in junior - is that talent inherited or down to the level they play at club grade?

Senior teams will naturally have stronger players across the board, obviously, but Forkhill aside there arent too many teams outside Senior with multiple representatives in the current panel which suggests to my that "single" players are being cherry picked. Of the team that started against Mayo, 5 came from outside Senior grade - Blaine Hughes, Paddy Burns, Brendy Donaghy, Jemar Hall, Soup Campbell. In my book the only question mark there is Hughes. Other options from intermediate - Murnin, Ethan - are they not worth their place? Of course they are.

Dont get me wrong, the notion of bringing a winning club mentality a la Cross in the noughties with a Senior club side dominating Ulster, challenging for AI again and having a core of those players through the county team is the ultimate recipe for success. However those teams dont come along very often & although we have good club teams currently, we dont have that truly exceptional team to choose from so its natural that other players will get a look in. On the flip side, that success isnt always a guarantee, see Slaughtneil/Ballinderry & Derry in the last 6 years.

In terms of the Tyrone argument, it doesnt stack up in my opinion. Tyrone senior club football (in fact their club football in general) is so much more competitive than Armaghs its untrue and its that competition across the board that drives their selection process. Since 2008 there have been 7 different winners of the Tyrone championship, no team has successfully defended it. In the same period Cross have won 8 Armagh championships interspersed by wins for Harps, Maghery and Pearse Ogs (which was 10 years ago). If we want more Senior club players in the Armagh County panel then we have to have a more competitive Club Senior championship - again, only in my opinion.
 

Throwball

Well-Known Member
The main problem I have with saying we need more senior club players on county squad is why should where a player is born , or club his family took him to, determine how good a player he is? I could also add that the senior championship- until recently- wasnt very competitive!
 
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Armaghball

Well-Known Member
Im not having a dig and I cant name anyone better lol But 1 gripe I have is there is a lot of players on our squad who play at intermediate level I dont get that. Well for example when Joe Kernan came in none of us knew who Francie Bellew was and he made his debut at 27 or 28. I just think McGeeney has been very loyal to some boys and think there is men who has annoyed him for whatever reason or players have been annoyed by him and made themselves unavailable. I just think 6 years is a long time and would like to see a fresh sheet. Personally I think we only need a few tweaks. I think we could be competitive against Kerry and Donegal wouldnt have liked to been in Dublin Tyrone group though.
We could definitely have given Kerry, Donegal or Tyrone a good game in a one off game with a full deck, but we’d already came through some serious battles and the injuries were starting to mount, it would have been a massive ask of the players to have gone and played another 3 huge games in 4 weeks, although thats the standard we need to be aiming for and the experience would have stood to the lads massively
 

Eireogatron

Well-Known Member
Im not having a dig and I cant name anyone better lol But 1 gripe I have is there is a lot of players on our squad who play at intermediate level I dont get that. Well for example when Joe Kernan came in none of us knew who Francie Bellew was and he made his debut at 27 or 28. I just think McGeeney has been very loyal to some boys and think there is men who has annoyed him for whatever reason or players have been annoyed by him and made themselves unavailable. I just think 6 years is a long time and would like to see a fresh sheet. Personally I think we only need a few tweaks. I think we could be competitive against Kerry and Donegal wouldnt have liked to been in Dublin Tyrone group though.
To be fair Mickey - Bellew was coming off 3 Ulster and 3 All Irelands at centre half back for Cross
 

Armaghball

Well-Known Member
If we look at Tyr**e - where is the majority of their squad made up from? They are maybe different as play very few games without county men so as someone mentioned. Teams being relegated without county men available makes things look different - like Forkhill


I am not wanting change but from senior league who arent in squad

Decky McKenna-should definitely be on the panel
Gavin mcpartlan- was playing great stuff and left the panel for whatever reason, should definitely be there
Kyle Carrager- very good player but in fairness to him would get nowhere near our full forward line at the minute, but worth having on the panel
Karl Loughran??
Stephen Morris
James Lavery-great player as well should be on the panel
Oisin McKeever-good player but he’d been floating around the team in the McKenna cup and league for a few years and never really staked a claim
Could add Aaron Kernan to the list as theres very few players in the county even now that are anywhere near him imo, but that ship has sailed for whatever reason. Think the thing is, bar maybe one or two, theres not too many that would improve our team that haven’t been given a chance and for whatever reason aren’t playing now, bar knowing the players personally none of us have a clue why they aren’t playing and even then we’ll only hear one side of the story.

Regarding having more players from senior on the panel, yes its important to have them, especially the Cross lads but look at how important the likes of Hall, Burns and Sheridan have been for us in the past few years while playing for a lower intermediate and now junior club, not forgetting of course Brendan Donaghy who most would agree has been our most vital player for a long time now, playing for a team that has yoyoed between junior and intermediate
 

armaghtimmy

Well-Known Member
If we look at Tyr**e - where is the majority of their squad made up from? They are maybe different as play very few games without county men so as someone mentioned. Teams being relegated without county men available makes things look different - like Forkhill


I am not wanting change but from senior league who arent in squad

Decky McKenna
Gavin mcpartlan
Kyle Carrager
Karl Loughran
Stephen Morris
James Lavery
Oisin McKeever

Was on the bench for Monaghan game sir
 
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