Ulster Senior Football Championship 2021

ragingbull

Well-Known Member
This should help clear things up. Very interesting reading.



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6 years is along time in footballo_O
 

Armamike

Active Member
I have to say I was very surprised that the two counties are similar in population. I actually went in search of the information as I would have thought that Tyrone had a much larger pick but clearly not.

It's a myth that gets trotted out. The playing numbers don't back it up, neither do the population figures. But Tyrone's a bigger county in terms of how it organises itself and gets more from its resources than us. Never mind Tyrone though, our issue the past 10 years has been about getting a result against anybody in Ulster. That's not because we're playing 'bigger' counties each year! It tells us everything we need to know about how we are not using our own playing resources or pick.
 

Armamike

Active Member
That 1977 breakthrough came about from a bit of re organization initiated a few years before. We had the basic same pool of players but we got our house in order in terms of vision, belief, and set up. I read an article by Peter Makem about Armagh-Down the 1961 Ulster Final. My Dad often talks about that game also. Down were the reigning All Ireland champions but we had them on the ropes. We should have closed it out but lost out to a dubious late goal. Armagh had many quality players then but instead of building on that performance, went off and disappeared into the wilderness for ages. Historically, we just seem to go for long periods gripped by a malaise. I don't believe it is because 'we are a small county' and 'good players only come around once in a generation' but its often that we fall into that way of thinking. That diminishes our self belief, drive and willingness to shake things up when needed

History shows that things can change quickly. The 77 team were in the third division that year if I remember. Could hardly field a team just a couple of years before. We had a few men around the county at that time with vision and a determination to change things.
 

pablo

Well-Known Member
History shows that things can change quickly. The 77 team were in the third division that year if I remember. Could hardly field a team just a couple of years before. We had a few men around the county at that time with vision and a determination to change things.
Yup. I remember them winning the 3rd division title against Clare the year before. By a point after a replay.
 

Savo01

Member
Tyrone and most other counties having Garvaghy and Centre's of Excellence have helped them I am sure. What is the story with Armagh building one? Is Callanbridge still flooded for half the year?
 

Armaghball

Well-Known Member
Tyrone and most other counties having Garvaghy and Centre's of Excellence have helped them I am sure. What is the story with Armagh building one? Is Callanbridge still flooded for half the year?
There was plans released for one somewhere round Portadown direction. No idea how far on it is
 

Armaghniac

Well-Known Member
I always felt a great part of Cross's success was due to their large pick and the fact that they did not have the same drop out rate as other clubs with similar populations. Keady being the opposite although granted there is no hurling in Cross.

Simple calculation will show that Cross have about the average pick for Armagh clubs, obviously a bit more than the typical Junior club but nothing special in the Senior ranks.
 

Armaghball

Well-Known Member
Simple calculation will show that Cross have about the average pick for Armagh clubs, obviously a bit more than the typical Junior club but nothing special in the Senior ranks.
Well they’ve around 40 or so lads togging out for their second team while a lot of teams scrape together 15 at times during the league so i would imagine they have slightly above average pick…
 

bcb1

Well-Known Member
They nick the odd one from surrounding areas and smuggle a few across the border also.


Few and far between these days. I’d say if you look over all the our teams that have played in the last 25 odd years since we went on the run colm O Neill joined us at u16 as culloville had no team, John D transferred in, his home place is in Cross parish, Gareth O Neill married into the McConville family and moved to the area at the end of his career, John Murtagh transferred back to Cross from Cullyhanna having played underage, Chris Crowley transferred in to the current set up having married a cousin of mine, can’t think of anyone else of any real note. All bar big Colm have direct connections with the club.
 

bcb1

Well-Known Member
On the population thing I have been over this and over this many times. Within South Armagh Cross is surrounded by 4 clubs within a 4 mile radius, Cullyhanna, Silverbridge, Culloville and Dorsey. 2 senior, 1 upper intermediate and 1 upper junior clubs. Go a few miles further and you have Mullaghbawn, Forkhill, Newtown, Whitecross….3 intermediate and 1 solid junior. All within less than 6-7 miles radius. We have had a solid enough population of around 1300-1400 since as long as I remember. The thing we have is continuity. Families staying put, all investing in the club. Of the 15 that started the AI in 1997 you have 7 of them have sons playing in the club from senior down, not including lads who were on the sub bench that day. McConvilles, McEntees, Bellew’s, Shorts, all will be coming through over the next few years (some already have!). Francie for instance has his own kids but also has a set of triplet nephews coming through u12/14s at the minute, both McEntees have boys, Oisín has 2 sons, Jim McConville has 1 and Jarlath 1. The latter 2 are in the senior set up. Obviously the O Neill’s boys are half McConville as well and there’s 4 of them. Younger than that there’s a group of Kernan boys starting at the younger age groups. This is where our strength is. Continuity.
 

winsamsoon

Well-Known Member
On the population thing I have been over this and over this many times. Within South Armagh Cross is surrounded by 4 clubs within a 4 mile radius, Cullyhanna, Silverbridge, Culloville and Dorsey. 2 senior, 1 upper intermediate and 1 upper junior clubs. Go a few miles further and you have Mullaghbawn, Forkhill, Newtown, Whitecross….3 intermediate and 1 solid junior. All within less than 6-7 miles radius. We have had a solid enough population of around 1300-1400 since as long as I remember. The thing we have is continuity. Families staying put, all investing in the club. Of the 15 that started the AI in 1997 you have 7 of them have sons playing in the club from senior down, not including lads who were on the sub bench that day. McConvilles, McEntees, Bellew’s, Shorts, all will be coming through over the next few years (some already have!). Francie for instance has his own kids but also has a set of triplet nephews coming through u12/14s at the minute, both McEntees have boys, Oisín has 2 sons, Jim McConville has 1 and Jarlath 1. The latter 2 are in the senior set up. Obviously the O Neill’s boys are half McConville as well and there’s 4 of them. Younger than that there’s a group of Kernan boys starting at the younger age groups. This is where our strength is. Continuity.
God help any son that isn't interested in football :) Credit must be given though to keep the conveyor belt going in such a small area.
 

Savo01

Member
I actually wonder what state Armagh football would be in, if there was only one club per parish like seems to be the case in Louth and a lot of other counties. The Cooley peninsula, has 3 teams in it for example, Cooley, St. Pat's and Omeath, but anyone decent there plays for Cooley. Roche Emmets covers Faughart, Kilcurry, Fatima and Brid a'Crinn, that is a fair landmass and population for one club to have. Ardee with a population of around 5,000 is a one club town. While I know there's a lot of politics in Armagh GAA and parishes, there's too many small clubs hindering each other in the same parishes.
 

Armaghball

Well-Known Member
I actually wonder what state Armagh football would be in, if there was only one club per parish like seems to be the case in Louth and a lot of other counties. The Cooley peninsula, has 3 teams in it for example, Cooley, St. Pat's and Omeath, but anyone decent there plays for Cooley. Roche Emmets covers Faughart, Kilcurry, Fatima and Brid a'Crinn, that is a fair landmass and population for one club to have. Ardee with a population of around 5,000 is a one club town. While I know there's a lot of politics in Armagh GAA and parishes, there's too many small clubs hindering each other in the same parishes.
What happens to the other lads then? Does one club start fielding a, b and c teams? Cross and Cullyhanna both beside each other, both have first and seconds teams already (Cullyhanna I think didn’t enter one this year but Cross could possibly do the double of championships) Silverbridge and Mullaghbawn would both have big numbers and Dorsey, Forkhill and Cullovile all not too far away and none are struggling as far as I know. Look at Shanes and Cruppen, would they even be a mile apart probably less, both have big numbers at senior and underage. For the amount of teams in and around the Lurgan/portadown area, they all seem to have plenty of numbers as well.

If it ever came to a point that a few of the smaller clubs were struggling to field at senior level then amalgamations would be worth looking at, but the way things are I think we need to be giving lads as much football as possible as long as the numbers are there.

I wouldn’t mind seeing seeing how parish teams would get on though if entered into the senior championship, the pick of a few closeby junior/intermediate teams, just to see the best players from smaller clubs get the chance to play at a higher level.
 

h754136

Active Member
I actually wonder what state Armagh football would be in, if there was only one club per parish like seems to be the case in Louth and a lot of other counties. The Cooley peninsula, has 3 teams in it for example, Cooley, St. Pat's and Omeath, but anyone decent there plays for Cooley. Roche Emmets covers Faughart, Kilcurry, Fatima and Brid a'Crinn, that is a fair landmass and population for one club to have. Ardee with a population of around 5,000 is a one club town. While I know there's a lot of politics in Armagh GAA and parishes, there's too many small clubs hindering each other in the same parishes.

Well this is nonsense. St. Pat's have won 7 county championships since Cooley last won one. Anyway, Louth football is poor and it isn't a place from which we should be drawing inspiration.

On the general point, fewer clubs with more condensed talent would probably lead to more competitive club football in the county. In this situation we might also be able to produce a stronger county side.

But the GAA is about giving people a sporting and cultural outlet in their community. It's about giving as many games to as many men and women as possible. And if that means we end up with bloated, watery club football in the county then that's the way it has to be. There are several ways that we can pull together to improve the lot of our county team, but fewer clubs is never the answer.
 

Armaghniac

Well-Known Member
Well that's nonsense.

What an insightful analysis.
There are around 100,000 in the Armagh population that might be associated with the GAA. Divide that by the number of clubs then you get around 2250 per club. The statistics people give the population of the Crossmaglen super output area as 2950, this area includes all of the Culloville catchment, so say divide it 2000 to Cross and 950 to Culloville. Now the census area is missing some districts towards Creggan and that would be part of Cross catchment, but you soon run into Silverbridge on that side, and there might be a few districts towards Cullyhanna not the census district, but these are not much populated. So add in another 15% to Cross and you have 2300.
 
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