2020 league

niall1980

Well-Known Member
Problem 1 - Westmeath worked us out after 15/20 minutes and we didnt adapt out style of play
Problem 2 - Not holding any defensive shape ie centre back needs to be on the 45 as a starting position when opposition attack
Problem 3 - Kick outs - we have 4/5 big men let the ball out to them
Problem 4 - Still a lack of leadership - i think Donaghy and Morgan must start all games
Problem 5 - Jamie Clarke needs to start and play him and Rian closer to goal
Problem 6 - Need to be a little better at the dark arts !!
Def agree with the last one. All the top teams excel at this
 

PatMustard

Well-Known Member
Def agree with the last one. All the top teams excel at this

Sad to even read that, but for teams to be successful, that’s what they have to do.

The black card has done very little to curtail the dark arts. Time to include a penalty kick along with a black card. It’s the only way to go.
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
Sad to even read that, but for teams to be successful, that’s what they have to do.

The black card has done very little to curtail the dark arts. Time to include a penalty kick along with a black card. It’s the only way to go.
It’s not even the nasty dark arts. Think back to the meath game. When we weee coming back they started to lie down over the pitch to break up our momentum. We never do anything like that
 

green flag

Active Member
I think it might be a good time to take stock of where the county team are at, have we improved any over the past three years? I believe we have not. The only consistent thing about Armagh is their inconsistency, this has been a trait of this group for some time the frustrating thing is that those in charge do not seem to have successfully addressed this aspect of the team's performance and I would assume they have tried. As a constant follower of the team I cannot see what system or structure or game plan the players are expected to follow, does one exist? If we go back to the great Crossmaglen team, or observe the present Kilcoo team both these teams had a definite plan where every player is aware of his role, this gives a team a much better chance of success than some of the aimless efforts we have witnessed from Armagh. One of the concerns I would have is that without a proper structure the undoubted talent of many of this panel will not be utilized to the maximum, maybe the team management should step back and readjust.
 

Ard Mhacha 13

Well-Known Member
I think it might be a good time to take stock of where the county team are at, have we improved any over the past three years? I believe we have not. The only consistent thing about Armagh is their inconsistency, this has been a trait of this group for some time the frustrating thing is that those in charge do not seem to have successfully addressed this aspect of the team's performance and I would assume they have tried. As a constant follower of the team I cannot see what system or structure or game plan the players are expected to follow, does one exist? If we go back to the great Crossmaglen team, or observe the present Kilcoo team both these teams had a definite plan where every player is aware of his role, this gives a team a much better chance of success than some of the aimless efforts we have witnessed from Armagh. One of the concerns I would have is that without a proper structure the undoubted talent of many of this panel will not be utilized to the maximum, maybe the team management should step back and readjust.

Maybe the end of the league might be a better time to take stock of where we're currently at. Every game is different as has been proven in the league to date, which match has provided a true reflection of our county team? Our hammering of Cavan (who are now top of Division 2), our poor performance & loss against Laois (who are 5th, although on the same points as us), our disciplined performance against Kildare (a side tipped for promotion but languishing at the bottom of the table) or finally our 1st or 2nd half against Westmeath.?!? While I fully understand & to a certain extent agree with your assessment & realise you are basing it on the last few seasons not just our current league performances, I'm still not convinced by the timing of your assessment.

Getting away from your point I have to say I think we are really missing Jemar from the side, a player who wins a lot of breaking/dirty ball, excellent pace & hard to stop when bursting forward which can often result in a free or a score.

My other observation is that given we have players like Oisin & Rian O'Neill, Jarlath Og & even Soupy, all very capable of winning high ball I don't feel we are taking full advantage of the offensive mark & think it is certainly something we should be utilising more often.
 

PatMustard

Well-Known Member
It’s not even the nasty dark arts. Think back to the meath game. When we weee coming back they started to lie down over the pitch to break up our momentum. We never do anything like that

We’re just going to have to live with that. As frustrating as that is, I certainly wouldn’t want any of our players lifting an opponent off the ground, whether he was injured or not. Player safety is always paramount.

An independent timekeeper is the only answer. It won’t solve all the problems, but it will help.
 

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
I think it might be a good time to take stock of where the county team are at, have we improved any over the past three years? I believe we have not. The only consistent thing about Armagh is their inconsistency, this has been a trait of this group for some time the frustrating thing is that those in charge do not seem to have successfully addressed this aspect of the team's performance and I would assume they have tried. As a constant follower of the team I cannot see what system or structure or game plan the players are expected to follow, does one exist? If we go back to the great Crossmaglen team, or observe the present Kilcoo team both these teams had a definite plan where every player is aware of his role, this gives a team a much better chance of success than some of the aimless efforts we have witnessed from Armagh. One of the concerns I would have is that without a proper structure the undoubted talent of many of this panel will not be utilized to the maximum, maybe the team management should step back and readjust.
I've actually been thinking about that bit in bold this evening when I was out with family (you can guess how boring my evening was - sorry family) because of a lot of the comments made over the last couple of days. You know, now I'm starting to wonder if the management are that blind, which I doubt, or is it a case of the players think they know better and aren't playing to the plan?

By that I mean some seem to be clued in, but not everyone seems to be singing from the same hymn sheet - jeez I hate that expression. I know we (certain members) keep banging on about poor management, but look back when we had our, in peoples opinion, "best" manager. Big Joe only got one ultimate title with what was described as the best squad of players Armagh will ever see underperform and let at least 3 titles slip. Is that truly Joe's fault?

Heres the thing and where I'm coming from. When we win and win well we have superb players. When we lose (draw) then the management is incompetent. Where is the consistency in what we say? Surely if the manager (ok, the sideline team) loses a game because of poor tactics, it's because of the reverse when we win, which I realise some do acknowledge. So basically it's an Armagh thing! At least we are consistent at being inconsistent, even as supporters.
 

Armagh_paul

Well-Known Member
I've actually been thinking about that bit in bold this evening when I was out with family (you can guess how boring my evening was - sorry family) because of a lot of the comments made over the last couple of days. You know, now I'm starting to wonder if the management are that blind, which I doubt, or is it a case of the players think they know better and aren't playing to the plan?

By that I mean some seem to be clued in, but not everyone seems to be singing from the same hymn sheet - jeez I hate that expression. I know we (certain members) keep banging on about poor management, but look back when we had our, in peoples opinion, "best" manager. Big Joe only got one ultimate title with what was described as the best squad of players Armagh will ever see underperform and let at least 3 titles slip. Is that truly Joe's fault?

Heres the thing and where I'm coming from. When we win and win well we have superb players. When we lose (draw) then the management is incompetent. Where is the consistency in what we say? Surely if the manager (ok, the sideline team) loses a game because of poor tactics, it's because of the reverse when we win, which I realise some do acknowledge. So basically it's an Armagh thing! At least we are consistent at being inconsistent, even as supporters.

I think everyone sees what McGeeney is doing - the McDonnell and O'Rourke eras were just about doing the best with what is available. To an extent so was Grimley's era.

McGeeney isn't building for the short term and he is doing what is best for the long term. He wants to ensure there is continued success for generations not to have one season wonders.

The gripe I have though is we haven't had a consistently decent defence for a while. The problems have been there constantly but nothing has been done about it. If it is the players deviating from the plan I'm sure McGeeney would be the first to show them the door. I'm generally critical of McGeeney but he is approaching management with development as being key but by the same token the defence hasn't developed. We easily have a division 1 forward line but it is coupled with what feels like a division 3 defence - although stats would say different.

For me it comes down to one of two reasons or both reasons as to why we don't have a reliable defence (1) The defenders don't exist within the county or (2) Management. I love watching Armagh playing attacking football but I'm frustrated in equal measure with our defence. We can't rely on winning games based on our forwards alone.

I think it would be interesting to develop players in the same mould as Forker as he plays in attack and defence.
 
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illdecide

New Member
Jasus we're a hard bunch to please, one thing we'll all agree on is Armagh are inconsistent. On our day we're a match for any team but can't do it every week, this im afraid where we find the answers...the difference between Armagh and top Div 1 teams are they're similar quality players to us but they do it week in and week out on a consistent basis and that's what makes them top players (IMO). A manager will know who his best players are but sending them out on match day hoping they're going to perform whereas Dublins of this world go out knowing they're going to perform. Someone mentioned the Cross and Kilcoo teams, they as club players and that level perform every week to their level (club) and that's what make them great teams.

So to break it down for us all...our players are good but not great, we keep going on about having a Div 1 forward line. I'm not so sure on that TBH, we'll only know when we get there and are being marked by the best defenders, no doubt we have quality up front and are prob more talented than most in Div 2 but lets be real here the difference between Div 1 & 2 is massive and would be a big step for this Armagh team.

As far as i'm concerned Armagh are doing rightly and the players all seem to be behind KMcG, is KMcG tactically astute? not sure but he's been around the game long enough and def has a shrewd man with him in Jim McCorry so if them two can't get more from these players i doubt anyone else will....I think that's what is so great about following Armagh (Roller coaster ride) we never know if we'll win and we always know there is a big scalp in this team too, we moan, we complain, we shout, we want players dropped, we want managers sacked but we turn up the following week again to go through it all again...

C'mon Armagh
 

ShiftYa

Well-Known Member
I think everyone sees what McGeeney is doing - the McDonnell and O'Rourke eras were just about doing the best with what is available. To an extent so was Grimley's era.

McGeeney isn't building for the short term and he is doing what is best for the long term. He wants to ensure there is continued success for generations not to have one season wonders.

The gripe I have though is we haven't had a consistently decent defence for a while. The problems have been there constantly but nothing has been done about it. If it is the players deviating from the plan I'm sure McGeeney would be the first to show them the door. I'm generally critical of McGeeney but he is approaching management with development as being key but by the same token the defence hasn't developed. We easily have a division 1 forward line but it is coupled with what feels like a division 3 defence - although stats would say different.

For me it comes down to one of two reasons or both reasons as to why we don't have a reliable defence (1) The defenders don't exist within the county or (2) Management. I love watching Armagh playing attacking football but I'm frustrated in equal measure with our defence. We can't rely on winning games based on our forwards alone.

I think it would be interesting to develop players in the same mould as Forker as he plays in attack and defence.
How long does it take to build a team? Because it seems like we’ve been building one for at least 5 years and I don’t think we’re in any better a position from when we started. Success breeds success. You ‘build’ teams by winning, this should not mean losing games in the mean time. How long will this building experiment go on for, too many blunders by this management over its tenure. It’s time for change.
 
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Pat Cully

Well-Known Member
We played very well in the first half but went to sleep for about 10 min mid way through so the writing was on the wall for the second half from Westmeath.
Nevertheless I was sitting in shock at how poor we where at the start of the second half to go from 8pts up to 4 down!
But the big positive was we got back for the draw which we haven’t being doing for a long while it was always other teams steeling a draw at the end from us
 

Naka

Active Member
my own tuppence worth is that we seem to have a settled forward line and indeed midfield but we are all over the place with defence and indeed tactics.
up front Rian, soupy,grugan, and jarly og seem to be starters with Duffy,Nugent, Clarke and Turbitt pushing for the other two, although for me Clarke should be starting.
the issues flow from defence and the constant chopping and changing.
for me Hughes, Morgan, Mc Kay, Forker and Donaghy are starters , and i like the cut of cumisky. Shields always scores but as a defender can be somewhat loose and i believe is better suited to coming on when the game is a little stretched as he is powerful running at defenders.

For whatever reason we have seen players play well one week and dropped the next week( this is where the problem lies) .
kickout strategy is also poor whenever we have Grimley who is fielding out of his skin and we also have Oisin and Burns out the middle yet we persist in 20 yard passing which allow the other team to set up defensively.
all in all we actually are the strongest team in the division but genuinely if we lose on sunday( which i actually don`t think will happen) then we are in a relegation battle.
 

JIMMY MAC

Member
How long does it take to build a team? Because it seems like we’ve been building one for at least 5 years and I don’t think we’re in any better a position from when we started. Success breeds success. You ‘build’ teams by winning, this should not mean losing games in the mean time. How long will this building experiment go on for, too many blunders by this management over its tenure. It’s time for change.

What is your expectation for the team? In the last 5 years with a young group of players did you expect to be winning Ulster titles against Tyrone, Donegal and Monaghan? Tyrone been 2 all ireland finals, Donegal most successful time ever.. "You ‘build’ teams by winning, this should not mean losing games in the mean time... One of the most ridiculous statements i think you want a bite from this. We are in a position i believe we should be in top 12 in Ireland. Super 8's should be a target for this year. With a bit of luck it will be achieved. If we get promotion, Ulster semi final and Super 8's it would be an unbelievable season.
 

Armagh_paul

Well-Known Member
How long does it take to build a team? Because it seems like we’ve been building one for at least 5 years and I don’t think we’re in any better a position from when we started. Success breeds success. You ‘build’ teams by winning, this should not mean losing games in the mean time. How long will this building experiment go on for, too many blunders by this management over its tenure. It’s time for change.

Be careful about wanting change we could just as easily collapse into irrelevance. Unless it is a manager from within the county who has proven success then I am not interested in changing manager. I have criticised McGeeney in the past but I do think we are going somewhere under him and have developed a young exciting team which previous managers were not interested in doing.

This is potentially McGeeney's final season as Armagh manager. If he doesn't win or produce any meaningful results then he is gone. People who have defended him cannot have any qualms with that and people who want him gone will obviously be delighted. On reflection I thought the additional years was fair but at present the same old issues are showing which is concerning. What I would question is the backroom team he has... IMHO I think there are a lot of better options available when it comes to the supporting McGeeney in management.

Anyway, it's the start of the season. Wether we like it or not McGeeney is the manager this season and we should get behind that.
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
How long does it take to build a team? Because it seems like we’ve been building one for at least 5 years and I don’t think we’re in any better a position from when we started. Success breeds success. You ‘build’ teams by winning, this should not mean losing games in the mean time. How long will this building experiment go on for, too many blunders by this management over its tenure. It’s time for change.
So by this definition no team is building? As no team is not losing games?
 

ShiftYa

Well-Known Member
What is your expectation for the team? In the last 5 years with a young group of players did you expect to be winning Ulster titles against Tyrone, Donegal and Monaghan? Tyrone been 2 all ireland finals, Donegal most successful time ever.. "You ‘build’ teams by winning, this should not mean losing games in the mean time... One of the most ridiculous statements i think you want a bite from this. We are in a position i believe we should be in top 12 in Ireland. Super 8's should be a target for this year. With a bit of luck it will be achieved. If we get promotion, Ulster semi final and Super 8's it would be an unbelievable season.
Expectations? Remain in div 2, scrape past Derry in the championship before being embarrassed by Donegall or Tyrone in the semis. And given the two tier championship I suspect we’ll be put out by the likes of cork in our next game after that.
 

ragingbull

Well-Known Member
How long does it take to build a team? Because it seems like we’ve been building one for at least 5 years and I don’t think we’re in any better a position from when we started. Success breeds success. You ‘build’ teams by winning, this should not mean losing games in the mean time. How long will this building experiment go on for, too many blunders by this management over its tenure. It’s time for change.
Who do you want to replace McGeeney?
 

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
Be careful about wanting change we could just as easily collapse into irrelevance. Unless it is a manager from within the county who has proven success then I am not interested in changing manager. I have criticised McGeeney in the past but I do think we are going somewhere under him and have developed a young exciting team which previous managers were not interested in doing.

This is potentially McGeeney's final season as Armagh manager. If he doesn't win or produce any meaningful results then he is gone. People who have defended him cannot have any qualms with that and people who want him gone will obviously be delighted. On reflection I thought the additional years was fair but at present the same old issues are showing which is concerning. What I would question is the backroom team he has... IMHO I think there are a lot of better options available when it comes to the supporting McGeeney in management.

Anyway, it's the start of the season. Wether we like it or not McGeeney is the manager this season and we should get behind that.
Yep. I'm with you on this, put a little better than I did/could!!

Only spoiler I see though is the extension Geezer got. I doubt anyone in current county management would want to over rule that and before anyone says anything, just remember that the county board get the final vote. The county board consists of club delegates from all clubs, so it's your club delegates (and by that I once again refer to the "royal" you in everyone and not @Armagh_paul ) that carry out the wishes of your club. If that genuinely doesn't please you, then get involved in your club more actively and make sure your voice is heard and your opinion is carried through. Or is it a case of being a keyboard warrior and scared shitless of raising your head in case someone asks awkward questions you might actually have to answer face to face!!
 
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