Junior Championship 2021

[bcb1]

All over Ireland there are clubs with multiple teams playing in multiple championships. It’s the norm in cork, Dublin, Kerry, Kilkenny in the hurling and other counties. People need to get over themselves

 

[POINTMAN]

All over Ireland there are clubs with multiple teams playing in multiple championships. It’s the norm in cork, Dublin, Kerry, Kilkenny in the hurling and other counties. People need to get over themselves

It still does not make it right or fair.
But don't worry, I will "get over" it.

By the way, and for BCB's information - I am not from a junior club and I know what senior medals are like!

 

[JoeH]

Those 3 players named have numerous medals at senior level - so do not pretend that a junior championship medal will mean as much to them.
Take those 3 out and you might have a slightly better argument (but I stand by my general point thart big clubs' 2nds teams should not be allowed to play in the junior championship - end of.)
If your club is a senior club then that should be the only grade in which you are allowed to compete for a championship medal.

Don't agree.
By all accounts Derrynoose were the better team last weekend and didn't take their chances.
Most junior teams have a few players who could play easily at a higher level but don't.
Until the rules change second teams and more are permitted to play.

 

[PatMustard]

Should Cross be punished for having a bigger population though? Or having enough players to field two teams?

If the rules didn’t allow Cross/Killeavy/Cullyhanna etc a seconds team, how many lads would walk away from football altogether?

Is one of the main aims of the GAA not to get as many people playing and involved as possible?

I can understand both arguments, but maybe we should look at the good work that is obviously done by some clubs to field two adult teams. And we should also look at the good work that is done in smaller areas with lesser resources/population, to run their club /teams.

 

[M18]

Understand the disappointment for some clubs - but cross 2 players this year is a once in decade year that they have left the senior panel and are at junior. Next year it will be very interesting if the same players give the same commitment at Intermediate

I must say Armagh at reserve / seconds level has improved alot in last 10-15 years as some have noted with cullyhanna reaching a championship final and now crossmaglen

I’m sure it is only a matter of time for Clan Eireann, clans to enter a 2nds team - especially with 50 players named on a senior panel.

I supppse it is just an argument is it better for these teams to compete with a junior which is not a great level compared to other counties at junior
Or if we should be facilitating a reserve league and championship as Tyrone and given respect of junior/intermediate/senior so that each year there are 4 football championships

 

[Armaghball]

His issue is we beat them. The players were passed to play by the relevant authorities. Rico Kelly, Paul McKeown and Johnny Hanratty gave over a decade to senior football in Cross. It’s not like they’re popping up and down between the 2 teams. They will never play senior again, end of story, and they should be allowed to play at the level they are fit to play at now. They are now junior players and will finish their careers as junior players.

Wouldn’t look out of place at senior level them lads….

 

[POINTMAN]

Should Cross be punished for having a bigger population though? Or having enough players to field two teams?

If the rules didn’t allow Cross/Killeavy/Cullyhanna etc a seconds team, how many lads would walk away from football altogether?

Is one of the main aims of the GAA not to get as many people playing and involved as possible?

I can understand both arguments, but maybe we should look at the good work that is obviously done by some clubs to field two adult teams. And we should also look at the good work that is done in smaller areas with lesser resources/population, to run their club /teams.

My point at the start of this discussion was that they should not play junior championship, but league is OK. So they would still get plenty of football....

 

[Greenyellow88]

Just a separate issue , was anyone at the second junior semi final? I can understand a referee missing a black card incident, but the referee seemed to miss 4 blatant black card incidents. From watching the game and back on Armagh TV, even the commentators Said they were black cards all day long.
All incidents involved players dragging/tripping Dorsey midfielder Moley when he was on a surging run.
Dorsey got a penalty after corner forward took it round keeper and he hauled him to ground. Surely has to be more than just a penalty.
Seem like Ref didn't know the rule.

 

[Kem]

Another factor that needs to be addressed is the disaster that is the reserve leagues.

 

[Big Jim]

Just a separate issue , was anyone at the second junior semi final? I can understand a referee missing a black card incident, but the referee seemed to miss 4 blatant black card incidents. From watching the game and back on Armagh TV, even the commentators Said they were black cards all day long.
All incidents involved players dragging/tripping Dorsey midfielder Moley when he was on a surging run.
Dorsey got a penalty after corner forward took it round keeper and he hauled him to ground. Surely has to be more than just a penalty.
Seem like Ref didn't know the rule.

Just remember (and I'm a big supporter and advocate for Armaghtv) that the lads doing the commentary are only just giving an opinion in their best reading of the rules and under less pressure than a ref. As much as they are great and fab fun as well as informative, like a scoreboard, it's the ref that has the final say. You may well think and be correct in your thinking, that the ref got something wrong many many times I have had those thoughts about a referee (John Bannon on many occasions), but doesn't make it change. Too many time we've had that conversation and debate on here!

 

[Kem]

Gaelic football is a difficult enough game to referee at the best of times but the jokers in Croke Park seem to think it is not difficult enough. The black card and mark nonsense has added a huge burden to the referee's workload, especially in an ordinary club game where he is totally on his own. Time to get shot of them both.

 

[OneofTwo]

His issue is we beat them. The players were passed to play by the relevant authorities. Rico Kelly, Paul McKeown and Johnny Hanratty gave over a decade to senior football in Cross. It’s not like they’re popping up and down between the 2 teams. They will never play senior again, end of story, and they should be allowed to play at the level they are fit to play at now. They are now junior players and will finish their careers as junior players.

You clearly didn't read my post. My issue isn't that we were beaten. We were beat by the better side, end of story. I said this above.

My point is that whilst there are a lot of out and out Junior players, there are a lot of players who aren't. In other clubs and senior clubs at that, when you decide you aren't fit for senior or you don't want to give the commitment, then you play reserve football. Cross have a reserve side also so why aren't they playing there if they want to just play football?

I actually would have cared much less about the whole thing had Cross not gone to the Ulster Council and above crying about not being able to field certain players even though they played senior football last season. The rule was and is there for a reason.

Final point on it and please be clear about this. The issue isn't actually with Cross, it is with the rules. The current Cross panel is the best panel in the Junior Championship and their depth is the reason why they are so successful. I genuinely hope they win it because we had a good couple of tussles with them. No dirt, no shite, just good hard games. Enjoyable stuff outside of the results LOL.

 

[OneofTwo]

So any year they didn’t win the junior is because they didn’t want to? Isn’t that being very disrespectful to the actual winners in those years

That's a very literal stance on my point. If they use the same tactic and say 4 or 5 strong senior players who could play senior football drop down then yes, there is every chance they could win most years. They were able to do it at senior after all!!!

IMO given the depth in your own club at present I believe they would be able to do the same.

 

[armaghlad]

Another factor that needs to be addressed is the disaster that is the reserve leagues.

Reserve leagues are farcical. Cricket scores are a common occurrence but not as common as dnfs. Should have an extra division in the all county leagues below junior league made initially of stronger reserve teams. Allow promotion relegation between the two. Maybe just one team and on the proviso that the promoted team is able to fulfil fixtures the following season as a proper seconds side. There are some strong reserve sides in the county and apart from a b championship have no real meaningful competition

 

[Big Jim]

Gaelic football is a difficult enough game to referee at the best of times but the jokers in Croke Park seem to think it is not difficult enough. The black card and mark nonsense has added a huge burden to the referee's workload, especially in an ordinary club game where he is totally on his own. Time to get shot of them both.

Ah now shooting the poor ref because he's on his own is a bit extreme

 

[niall1980]

Well this isn't strictly true. They have 2 players playing that played senior football last year. This was highlighted by another club (Not ourselves) to the County board who told Cross they weren't allowed to play championship. Cross took it to Ulster council who threw it out and sided with Armagh and then after another appeal (Maybe Croke park but not 100% sure on this) they were passed to play. Loop hole with a blood sub appearance I believe so let's not kid ourselves that there are players playing who shouldn't be.

This isn't sour grapes because they beat us and fairly at that but we need to be clear that the 2nd team is offering a platform to players who could and should still be playing senior football, for example Rico, to play at a lower level. It is a testimony to Cross that they able to do this but don't kid ourselves they are anywhere close to being compared to a Junior club.

If Kelly should still be playing senior football why isn’t he? Wasn’t he dropped form the cross senior panel?

 

[Eireogatron]

I've absolutely no issue with Cross 2nds playing junior football regardless of how many medals they've previously won.

I think the Belleek semi showed how heavily reliant they are on O'Neill because what I've seen of Dorsey in the 2 games we played against them thus summer they were very limited.

Hard to see anything but a Cross win here.

 

[Up_the_town]

I would have thought it would be a tight affair. The weather and pitch will play a big part on the game and who can adapt best to conditions.
I've always said that goals wins games and I don't think it will be any different this weekend.

O Neill is a massive lost to Belleek but they have enough talent within the squad to win.
I do think Cross will just get over the line. I think they have enough experience within the squad to deal with conditions, win frees etc.

Best of luck to both teams and hopefully a great game to watch

 

[lumpitin]

Is O’Neill out of action for belleek Sunday? Massive loss if so

 

[lumpitin]

Not many seen that result coming. Great to see. Delighted for belleek. Sean McCreesh was on form today. Rico Kelly should have known better, don’t think it had much bearing on the game though. Belleek were the better team throughout. Some result considering no Calum ONeill for the most part or Fergus Quinn. Love an upset