New Rules - How Should Armagh Set Up? What Will Be The Big Changes Tactically Nationwide?

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niall1980

Well-Known Member
Hoops said:
The short kick out is going nowhere.
Teams will want the front 3 to put on a bit of a press, but everyone else will pull back into a defensive shape. The same logic from before still applies, the risk of conceding off a long kick out is far too high, so unless you're likely to win the midfield battle or the game situation forces you to take that risk, you'll choose to avoid it where possible. The front 3 can drop right back to near the half way line remember, not too different to what teams did before. That's probably close enough to fight for a break ball.
An opposition kickout is still a defensive play. You're living in cuckoo-land if you think any manager will simply allow an opposition to repeatedly lump it over half their team and easily attack an exposed full back line.

Ideally you'd let the opposition take a short kickout, progress the ball slowly up the field and bring 12 attackers + goalkeeper into your half, then you'd win the ball off them and hit them on the counter. The main difference from when that happened before, is that teams will have a much stronger counter attacking threat because of the 3 up front, so hopefully fewer of those transitions evolve into slow phases of play and we see more shots.
I think to counter this, we'll see a 4th defender stay back and hold a 4v3 in the defensive half of the team with the ball. That would both act as cover if the team in possession lose the ball and can also be an out-ball to safely keep possession. That'll force the team without the ball to decide whether to push a man right out on him and leave space closer to their goal, or let them keep the ball out the field.

Re rafferty - he's the ideal man for this. He's been recovered from injury for a long time now and is much more athletic than any other goalkeeper like morgan or beggan who will try to play the same role. Other teams will be experimenting with an outfielder, and we have one ready to go who's already experienced some huge pressure moments as a goalkeeper. It would be crazy not to play him. He starts for almost every other team in the country.

Our strategy of using the bench and holding players back until the final phase of a game, seemed like it was going to become more popular anyway, as teams generally copy what wins. The combination of an increased potential to score (giving more reward to the risk of holding players back until the game opens up) and the chatter about high speed running meaning players will fatigue quicker, will only make that in-game management even more important. That should be an advantage to us as we have a massive panel with a lot of very athletic players, and we've already been deploying the strategy to see who does well from the start vs the end.

I also think the idea that man-marking is a lost art and corner forwards are going to have a field day in the 3v3 is a bit misguided. We could end up surprised to see how often defenders are able to manage their forward into a situation where they can't get a shot off despite the amount of space there is.
Click to expand...
does the kick out not have to go beyond the 45 now?
 
H

Hoops

Well-Known Member
niall1980 said:
does the kick out not have to go beyond the 45 now?
Click to expand...
It's the 40m arc, but they also changed the rules so the keeper doesn't need to wait on players getting out. Players still need to be outside the D but they can remain behind the 20m line and inside the arc, so long as they don't touch it in there.
That speeds kick outs up and give more options for short kick out plays, e.g. a run from inside the arc to outside, or from behind the 20m line to outside the arc.
 
PatMustard

PatMustard

Moderator
Staff member
I read something recently, which said if the goalkeeper kicks the ball from the spot, straight down the pitch, the ball only has to travel 20 metres to go beyond the arc. Yet if he played it to the wing, it has to travel further to go beyond the arc.

Is that correct?

I wasn't really paying attention to the new markings during the Railway Cup games, to be honest.
 
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T

Throwball

Well-Known Member
PatMustard said:
I read something recently, which said if the goalkeeper kicks the ball from the spot, straight down the pitch, the ball only has to travel 20 metres to go beyond the arc. Yet if he played it to the wing, it has to travel further to go beyond the arc.

Is that correct?

I wasn't really paying attention to the new markings during the Railway Cup games, to be honest.
Click to expand...
It is a long time since I studied maths but if the arc is a semi circle then the distance should always be the same. If it isn't how do they measure where the arc should be?
 
T

Throwball

Well-Known Member
On another note. I read that if the keeper takes a kick out he can run after the ball and kick it again before anyone else touches it - as long as he doesn't touch it with his hands.
 
A

Armaghball

Well-Known Member
Throwball said:
It is a long time since I studied maths but if the arc is a semi circle then the distance should always be the same. If it isn't how do they measure where the arc should be?
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It is measured 40 yards from the goal in a semi circle, geometry not my strong point but i think if you come straight out to the 21 then you will be closer to the arc straight in front of you than the part the arc at the sidelines
 
PatMustard

PatMustard

Moderator
Staff member
Armaghball said:
It is measured 40 yards from the goal in a semi circle, geometry not my strong point but i think if you come straight out to the 21 then you will be closer to the arc straight in front of you than the part the arc at the sidelines
Click to expand...
Yes, that’s my thinking too.

Must get my measuring tape out and confirm. Wait there, I won’t be long...
 
T

Throwball

Well-Known Member
But....if it is a perfect semi circle the radius from the very centre should always be the same? Surely? Then if it isn't a perfect semi circle?
 
T

Throwball

Well-Known Member
Armaghball said:
It is measured 40 yards from the goal in a semi circle, geometry not my strong point but i think if you come straight out to the 21 then you will be closer to the arc straight in front of you than the part the arc at the sidelines
Click to expand...
Reading this again you might be right. Then again.....
 
Diarmi

Diarmi

Well-Known Member
Hoops said:
The short kick out is going nowhere.
Teams will want the front 3 to put on a bit of a press, but everyone else will pull back into a defensive shape. The same logic from before still applies, the risk of conceding off a long kick out is far too high, so unless you're likely to win the midfield battle or the game situation forces you to take that risk, you'll choose to avoid it where possible. The front 3 can drop right back to near the half way line remember, not too different to what teams did before. That's probably close enough to fight for a break ball.
An opposition kickout is still a defensive play. You're living in cuckoo-land if you think any manager will simply allow an opposition to repeatedly lump it over half their team and easily attack an exposed full back line.

Ideally you'd let the opposition take a short kickout, progress the ball slowly up the field and bring 12 attackers + goalkeeper into your half, then you'd win the ball off them and hit them on the counter. The main difference from when that happened before, is that teams will have a much stronger counter attacking threat because of the 3 up front, so hopefully fewer of those transitions evolve into slow phases of play and we see more shots.
I think to counter this, we'll see a 4th defender stay back and hold a 4v3 in the defensive half of the team with the ball. That would both act as cover if the team in possession lose the ball and can also be an out-ball to safely keep possession. That'll force the team without the ball to decide whether to push a man right out on him and leave space closer to their goal, or let them keep the ball out the field.

Re rafferty - he's the ideal man for this. He's been recovered from injury for a long time now and is much more athletic than any other goalkeeper like morgan or beggan who will try to play the same role. Other teams will be experimenting with an outfielder, and we have one ready to go who's already experienced some huge pressure moments as a goalkeeper. It would be crazy not to play him. He starts for almost every other team in the country.

Our strategy of using the bench and holding players back until the final phase of a game, seemed like it was going to become more popular anyway, as teams generally copy what wins. The combination of an increased potential to score (giving more reward to the risk of holding players back until the game opens up) and the chatter about high speed running meaning players will fatigue quicker, will only make that in-game management even more important. That should be an advantage to us as we have a massive panel with a lot of very athletic players, and we've already been deploying the strategy to see who does well from the start vs the end.

I also think the idea that man-marking is a lost art and corner forwards are going to have a field day in the 3v3 is a bit misguided. We could end up surprised to see how often defenders are able to manage their forward into a situation where they can't get a shot off despite the amount of space there is.
Click to expand...
I wonder could we see a switch of keeper depending on who we are playing? Also, could we see a keeper swapped during a game depending on how the game is going?
 
W

Wee man

Well-Known Member
Armaghball said:
Anyone get to the exhibition game today?
Click to expand...
was at the game. thought it was a poor enough turnout if I'm honest.
But a decent game and some players definitely put their hand up.
Justin Kieran looked sharp
Of the newcomers Fergal O Brien / Daniel Magee / Tiernan Murphy / Sean Conlon all stood out for me.

The battle between the goalkeepers will be one to watch. Ethan showing why the new rules suit his game, scored 3 points from play including a 2 pointer. Blaine also upped his game in the 3rd quarter, a lot more involved and scored a point from play but I dont think he has the 2 pointers in his locker... so some tough calls for management going forward. interesting they played Ethan at midfield for the last 1/4

One thing of note is the new rules and in particular the 3 up rule.
I counted 8 officials there yesterday ( 2 refs / 4 umpires / 2 linesmen ) and still they seemed to find it difficult to police the 3 up rule. Cant fault the referee, he hasn't got eyes in the back of his head, but on the couple of occasions when a team broke the 3 up rule he was relying on the linesman / stand by ref to notify him.
I honestly think it will lead to serious issues at club games when there is only one ref.
 
ragingbull

ragingbull

Well-Known Member
Wee man said:
was at the game. thought it was a poor enough turnout if I'm honest.
But a decent game and some players definitely put their hand up.
Justin Kieran looked sharp
Of the newcomers Fergal O Brien / Daniel Magee / Tiernan Murphy / Sean Conlon all stood out for me.

The battle between the goalkeepers will be one to watch. Ethan showing why the new rules suit his game, scored 3 points from play including a 2 pointer. Blaine also upped his game in the 3rd quarter, a lot more involved and scored a point from play but I dont think he has the 2 pointers in his locker... so some tough calls for management going forward. interesting they played Ethan at midfield for the last 1/4

One thing of note is the new rules and in particular the 3 up rule.
I counted 8 officials there yesterday ( 2 refs / 4 umpires / 2 linesmen ) and still they seemed to find it difficult to police the 3 up rule. Cant fault the referee, he hasn't got eyes in the back of his head, but on the couple of occasions when a team broke the 3 up rule he was relying on the linesman / stand by ref to notify him.
I honestly think it will lead to serious issues at club games when there is only one ref.
Click to expand...
hear Justin Kieran is getting a transfer from the Grange to An Port Mor :eek:
 
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