Senior Division 1B

[Armaghball]

I would have to agree with you there it is shocking currently, the current league format does not help with this and arguably lowers the standards. We have the championship format spot on, no doubt that may change this year to increase the oul revenue.

Whats wrong with the league?

 

[armaghlad]

Open to correction, but I think the Ogs have been decimated by players leaving the panel. The spine of the Ogs in recent years was very much dependent on some excellent players who had reached veteran stage, including the unsinkable Chris Rafferty and Paul Duffy. Had heard that Anto Duffy and the Freemans had also quit, which would represent a body blow, if true.

As for football in the Cathedral City, I would expect our Seniors to hold our own in Division 1A this year but like the Ogs, the spine of our side is heavily weighted on some excellent players who are maybe reaching the twilight of their careers, and replacing them will be a big challenge for us in the coming seasons.

However, and I've referenced it before, the overall standard of football in our County is absolutely shocking and the more I see of it the more I think that the current Armagh side are simply boxing above their weight and giving a lot of supporters a false expectation of what is realistically possible.

An interesting assertion to say the standard of Armagh football is shocking. Are our Division 1/SFC clubs any weaker than in any other county? Perhaps at intermediate level, which I would put down to us as a county having too many clubs (too many small clubs at that) that are closer to junior standard than they are intermediate.

 

[armaghlad]

Whats wrong with the league?

There’s nothing wrong with the leagues in my opinion. How having smaller divisions with less teams in them lowers the standard is beyond me.

 

[Armaghball]

An interesting assertion to say the standard of Armagh football is shocking. Are our Division 1/SFC clubs any weaker than in any other county? Perhaps at intermediate level, which I would put down to us as a county having too many clubs (too many small clubs at that) that are closer to junior standard than they are intermediate.

Hard to say as I haven’t watched a whole pile of other counties club matches to be honest, maybe others would know more, but Armagh clubs record in Ulster barring Cross is woeful. (Clann Eireann did rightly last year in fairness).

Looking at our leagues though, most of the Senior B clubs are probably intermediate standard and most Intermediate B clubs are junior standard if we’re being brutally honest here.

 

[armaghlad]

Hard to say as I haven’t watched a whole pile of other counties club matches to be honest, maybe others would know more, but Armagh clubs record in Ulster barring Cross is woeful. (Clann Eireann did rightly last year in fairness).

Looking at our leagues though, most of the Senior B clubs are probably intermediate standard and most Intermediate B clubs are junior standard if we’re being brutally honest

Probably a legacy of Cross’ dominance is that not too many clubs got to dip their toes at provincial senior level so haven’t any real experience at playing top Ulster clubs at championship level. Clann Éireann didn’t disgrace themselves last year and if they retain the SFC this year will hope to improve on their 2021 showing.

While agree on your point regarding Intermediate B, I’d love to know what Senior B clubs you think are intermediate level, outside of Cruppen and Pearse Óg.

 

[GAAJohn]

There’s nothing wrong with the leagues in my opinion. How having smaller divisions with less teams in them lowers the standard is beyond me.

Hard to say as I haven’t watched a whole pile of other counties club matches to be honest, maybe others would know more, but Armagh clubs record in Ulster barring Cross is woeful. (Clann Eireann did rightly last year in fairness).

Looking at our leagues though, most of the Senior B clubs are probably intermediate standard and most Intermediate B clubs are junior standard if we’re being brutally honest here.

It needs to be a div 1, 2,3 format etc grouping the lower level teams together and playing home & away is no way to improve sides whilst having no exposure to playing the top sides in the county is no use to anyone. We have a system were teams don't care about fluctuating between 1A & 1B leading to a poor quality of league football.

 

[armaghlad]

It needs to be a div 1, 2,3 format etc grouping the lower level teams together and playing home & away is no way to improve sides whilst having no exposure to playing the top sides in the county is no use to anyone. We have a system were teams don't care about fluctuating between 1A & 1B leading to a poor quality of league football.

Can’t say I agree. I don’t think any team drops a division without caring and I don’t think this system lends itself to this sort of mentality any more than the old “4 division” set up which had teams yo-yoing between divisions. Division 1A and 2A are shaping up to be minefields already with teams all looking like they’re capable of beating each other.

 

[Armaghball]

Probably a legacy of Cross’ dominance is that not too many clubs got to dip their toes at provincial senior level so haven’t any real experience at playing top Ulster clubs at championship level. Clann Éireann didn’t disgrace themselves last year and if they retain the SFC this year will hope to improve on their 2021 showing.

While agree on your point regarding Intermediate B, I’d love to know what Senior B clubs you think are intermediate level, outside of Cruppen and Pearse Óg.

In fairness I was maybe a bit harsh there- although where would the likes of the stronger teams in that league would be playing in other counties I’m not sure. Would maybe be high end intermediate?

 

[Armaghball]

Can’t say I agree. I don’t think any team drops a division without caring and I don’t think this system lends itself to this sort of mentality any more than the old “4 division” set up which had teams yo-yoing between divisions. Division 1A and 2A are shaping up to be minefields already with teams all looking like they’re capable of beating each other.

Yeah I think the previous format you would have had mismatches. The top teams in senior a are much too strong for the bottom teams in b, likewise with intermediate. Think this format gives teams more of a chance to play teams at their level

 

[armaghlad]

In fairness I was maybe a bit harsh there- although where would the likes of the stronger teams in that league would be playing in other counties I’m not sure. Would maybe be high end intermediate?

Probably Ulster league would be the only barometer to go by - Ballymacnab, Clans and Sarsfields all played in it. Nab & Clans did alright, Sarsfields not so much, I’d say all three would hold their own in any other county’s Division 1

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

An interesting assertion to say the standard of Armagh football is shocking. Are our Division 1/SFC clubs any weaker than in any other county? Perhaps at intermediate level, which I would put down to us as a county having too many clubs (too many small clubs at that) that are closer to junior standard than they are intermediate.

An interesting assertion? I'd label it worrying. As to your question, my sense would be that 'yes', our top Clubs would be weaker than a lot of other counties - as an example, Derry, Donegal, Down, Monaghan and Tyrone.

You do raise an interesting point about the number of Clubs we have and I know there are friends of mine, who share my opinion about the standard of Armagh football, who would be steadfast in their view that Armagh has too many Clubs for its population.

As regards the league, I actually think it really works well. Smaller, more competitive divisions, that are linked to the Championship, which maximise the opportunity for meaningful fixtures.

 

[Not too serious]

I think the leagues aren’t bad at all. Having a 16 team division is too big a gap from top to bottom, even in a 12 team division although to a lesser extent. Most of the time the leagues are keenly contented at both ends of the table and there’s not much room for cruising through mid table with nothing to play for.

Regarding ulster club championships the teams at senior level that do the best tend to have had a few cracks at it and are somewhat dominant in their own county and the Armagh senior championship has changed hands several times lately.

The other problem armagh clubs face is that as 16 teams are in senior, our intermediate champions are say 17th best in championship rankings, and junior champions say 33rd. In Monaghan 10 clubs play senior and 10 intermediate so at junior for example Armagh’s 33rd team play Monaghan’s 21st team.

 

[ShiftYa]

I’d be in favour of having it go:
10
10
10
Rest
Id link each Division to its respective championship as currently is, with the top 6 teams in each division getting a bye into quarter finals - assuming straight knockout- with the remaining drawn in the first.
Could do a few things with the Junior - 16 teams or more, possibly a div 4 championship if there was an appetite for it.

18 league games each year, no great gulf in class and competitive championships.

 

[Not too serious]

I’d be in favour of having it go:
10
10
10
Rest
Id link each Division to its respective championship as currently is, with the top 6 teams in each division getting a bye into quarter finals - assuming straight knockout- with the remaining drawn in the first.
Could do a few things with the Junior - 16 teams or more, possibly a div 4 championship if there was an appetite for it.

18 league games each year, no great gulf in class and competitive championships.

There is definitely scope for junior and a junior b in my opinion.

 

[armaghlad]

An interesting assertion? I'd label it worrying. As to your question, my sense would be that 'yes', our top Clubs would be weaker than a lot of other counties - as an example, Derry, Donegal, Down, Monaghan and Tyrone.

You do raise an interesting point about the number of Clubs we have and I know there are friends of mine, who share my opinion about the standard of Armagh football, who would be steadfast in their view that Armagh has too many Clubs for its population.

I mean, if you’re saying our clubs are weaker than the Kilcoos, Glens, Slaughtneils and Scotstowns of this world then yes I’d agree they’d beat most if not all of our top club sides - but then they also do the same in their own counties. That to me isn’t shocking, it’s probably a result of what we already seem to agree on ie we as a smaller county have too many clubs.

if you look at Tyrone or Derry for example - they are both big counties with 16 team SFCs and believe me cricket scores do get dished out in both league and championship - I don’t believe half the hype about either of them if I’m honest.

Down is the same, perhaps to a lesser extent but they certainly have clubs in the SFC that would probably feel more at home at intermediate level (Rostrevor, Castlewellan, Bryansford)

 

[Big Jim]

An interesting assertion? I'd label it worrying. As to your question, my sense would be that 'yes', our top Clubs would be weaker than a lot of other counties - as an example, Derry, Donegal, Down, Monaghan and Tyrone.

You do raise an interesting point about the number of Clubs we have and I know there are friends of mine, who share my opinion about the standard of Armagh football, who would be steadfast in their view that Armagh has too many Clubs for its population.

As regards the league, I actually think it really works well. Smaller, more competitive divisions, that are linked to the Championship, which maximise the opportunity for meaningful fixtures.

I had this almost identical conversation regarding the number of clubs in the county (now I'm lightening the mood a little so everyone, just run with it for now) and my answer was simple. Reducing the numbers isn't always necessarily a positive. Look at what has happened with our local politics since the numbers of councils, MLA's etc. have been reduced. They're still making a total ba............ eh I mean mess of that!! Well one that rhymes with Falls!!!!!

Sorry folks. Back to you lot for some sincere, engaging and constructive conversation

 

[M18]

Maybe our smaller playing population is more negatively impacted by no county men
More clubs so squads more thin
Have to think if Lurgan had even 3 teams they would be very strong even without county men
Unfortunately it’s a numbers game and that is highlighted when best players aren’t there

 

[Armaghball]

Maybe our smaller playing population is more negatively impacted by no county men
More clubs so squads more thin
Have to think if Lurgan had even 3 teams they would be very strong even without county men
Unfortunately it’s a numbers game and that is highlighted when best players aren’t there

Naturally. But at the same time for all the clubs in Lurgan, none seem to struggle for numbers and most field reserve teams as well.

Surely getting as many lads as possible playing as decent a standard of football as possible is the number one aim.

 

[Armagh Gael]

I like the format of the leagues as they are.....gives rise to fewer mismatches. Can't eliminate those completely unfortunately.
My issue, particularly this year, is the lack of games. Div 2A, for example, has only 7 teams this year. That equals 12 league games and potentially only 1 championship game depending on how you go. 13 games for the amount of training likely done is a poor enough return. Even 14 league games in a year isn't a lot.
Other counties play more league games than we do. In a normal year, even if you were to split the league at the end, that gives another 3 league games potentially. Something to be considered maybe. I wouldn't be a fan of changing the championship format because I think knockout is the most exciting format.
More games which are competitive will lead to a better overall quality of the leagues.

 

[M18]

Naturally. But at the same time for all the clubs in Lurgan, none seem to struggle for numbers and most field reserve teams as well.

Surely getting as many lads as possible playing as decent a standard of football as possible is the number one aim.

Totally agree, player engagement is number 1 and think there is potential in Armagh to run a short summer league of 13 a side for over 35s for example
As a social league like go games for underage

Though I have noticed underage many more clubs amalgamating for numbers while others are fielding 2nd teams at age groups