All Ireland series

niall1980 said:

Putting on the optimistic head here. We can still top the group.
We beat Galway. Not beyond the realms of possibility if we play well. We are both on 4 points.
WM beat Tyrone. Again not beyond the realms of possibility. WM have played well and Tyrone are no great shakes. They are both on 2 points
In this scenario we win the group and Tyrone finish bottom. What's not to like

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niall1980 said:

Putting on the optimistic head here. We can still top the group.
We beat Galway. Not beyond the realms of possibility if we play well. We are both on 4 points.
WM beat Tyrone. Again not beyond the realms of possibility. WM have played well and Tyrone are no great shakes. They are both on 2 points
In this scenario we win the group and Tyrone finish bottom. What's not to like

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gael_force_orchard said:

Galway beat us and Westmeath beat Tyrone and we finish last is the other side of that coin.

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gael_force_orchard said:

Galway beat us and Westmeath beat Tyrone and we finish last is the other side of that coin.

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PatMustard said:

How are places decided in the group?

If 2 teams are level on points, does it go down to that stupid head to head rule? And if 3 teams are level, scoring difference?

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PatMustard said:

How are places decided in the group?

If 2 teams are level on points, does it go down to that stupid head to head rule? And if 3 teams are level, scoring difference?

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niall1980 said:

Putting on the optimistic head here. We can still top the group.
We beat Galway. Not beyond the realms of possibility if we play well. We are both on 4 points.
WM beat Tyrone. Again not beyond the realms of possibility. WM have played well and Tyrone are no great shakes. They are both on 2 points
In this scenario we win the group and Tyrone finish bottom. What's not to like

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niall1980 said:

OPTIMISM today. We can do pessimism tomorrow.

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Ná habair é said:

Have too many different thoughts on actual match to comment yet.

On a side issue, obviously we're responsible for our own results and Rian has to accept responsibility for his own actions, but noticed last night the linesman who reported the incident was from Galway. He was also down as the standby ref and would have taken over the game if anything (injury/ illness etc) had happened to Martin McNally. Surely match officials should come from counties outside the teams competing in each group.

IMHO standard or officials last night was poor. Armagh point not given. Tyrone wide given as point. Ref not only did not see the Rian incident but also missed a clear black card for Tyrone at exactly the same time.

According to RTE (J Cantwell) Rian red was for '....To behave in any way which is dangerous to an opponent....'. Looks like a Category 111 5.17 in rule book. Does anyone know what punishment is? Will he get one match ban or is his season over? Will fact that it was the linesman and not referee have any bearing on the appeal if there is one??

On a brighter note Armagh support last night was fantastic!!

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Big Jim said:

Feeling crap because of who it was that beat us, but other than stupid errors, I felt the team put in a mighty shift. Jeez those diving midgets are a bunch of diving midgets. Right from the start they targeted Rian and Andrew doing all they could to have both leave the field with by card or stretcher. I'm not sure why there aren't more talking about it. Rian stupidly "fell" for it, but yes his discipline is atrocious. Not a recent thing either. At club level he was carded in club championship for a horrible incident with Aidan Forker a while back. If he kept control and focused he's almost unplayable 95% of the time, but again unfortunately he knows it - it results in arrogance.

Again no one died so we move on.

Kieran McGeeney will be manager of the senior county team until a time when Kieran has had enough and decides to call it a day. He will decide in conjunction with a discussion with the county board. He's better than to be hounded out by a muppet with a keyboard and a paintbrush to leave a sign at a roadside. A muppet that wouldn't have the cahoonas to face down an angry milkman collecting money for charity. If said muppet is as brave as their fingers, then publicly identify themselves and do the same things in public. This is not me saying that Kieran should stay after this season, I couldn't justify that, but my gut feeling is we'd be worse off after his departure, maybe for a while. This is just my opinion on whether he will stay or not.

E
That's something I've long questioned. It's more prevalent in league when we play (for example in this case) Galway next and the ref is a Galway man. They shouldn't consider that, but it's human nature. Again as an example last week the midgets played Galway and I couldn't help wish they were beaten, same for yesterday and again in the next round - ok maybe not the same then!!!!

In general, I don't think the ref did a bad job and certainly didn't cost us the game. On the missed black card, I never seen it at the time and certainly not one player was calling it out. The tv have a few different camera angles to view and can see something that is blocked for an official, maybe justifiably too as they were concentrating on what Rian was up to. You can be sure that was their brief.

Missed or wrongly given point call?? Hmmmm. Human error. Hold your hand up if you've never made a mistake and almost immediately realised it but too late to change.......... Go on and I'll point to someone that's a stranger to the truth. Shit like that happens. This year in Croke Park an umpire gave a wide and was screamed at by numerous players. Even the goalkeeper didn't make his usual "wide" gesture. The ref actually made the Hawkeye call and it turned out to be a score, so even when the technology was available to be used, the official felt he'd made the right call waving it wide and didn't ask for assistance for that one. He was wrong, but no one can say deliberately so.

None whatsoever. A linesman or umpire, even the 4th official may speak to the ref in a break in play and bring to his/her attention an incident that may need dealt with including up to issuing a red card. If someone from the crowd influenced the decision by telling the ref, that's the only thing that would make it different. Having seen the footage, I'd love to see what grounds there are for appeal. He knelt on and held pressure on the dicks head and neck. Rian is a massively talented and strong individual. He should be using that to get up the nose of his opponent and torture them that way. I'm sorry, but I don't see him currently as a captain or leader of that team. Massive player as he is, he cannot possibly lead like that. Should be a north Armagh man anyway

Ah well, again no one died so we move

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Big Jim said:

Feeling crap because of who it was that beat us, but other than stupid errors, I felt the team put in a mighty shift. Jeez those diving midgets are a bunch of diving midgets. Right from the start they targeted Rian and Andrew doing all they could to have both leave the field with by card or stretcher. I'm not sure why there aren't more talking about it. Rian stupidly "fell" for it, but yes his discipline is atrocious. Not a recent thing either. At club level he was carded in club championship for a horrible incident with Aidan Forker a while back. If he kept control and focused he's almost unplayable 95% of the time, but again unfortunately he knows it - it results in arrogance.

Again no one died so we move on.

Kieran McGeeney will be manager of the senior county team until a time when Kieran has had enough and decides to call it a day. He will decide in conjunction with a discussion with the county board. He's better than to be hounded out by a muppet with a keyboard and a paintbrush to leave a sign at a roadside. A muppet that wouldn't have the cahoonas to face down an angry milkman collecting money for charity. If said muppet is as brave as their fingers, then publicly identify themselves and do the same things in public. This is not me saying that Kieran should stay after this season, I couldn't justify that, but my gut feeling is we'd be worse off after his departure, maybe for a while. This is just my opinion on whether he will stay or not.

E
That's something I've long questioned. It's more prevalent in league when we play (for example in this case) Galway next and the ref is a Galway man. They shouldn't consider that, but it's human nature. Again as an example last week the midgets played Galway and I couldn't help wish they were beaten, same for yesterday and again in the next round - ok maybe not the same then!!!!

In general, I don't think the ref did a bad job and certainly didn't cost us the game. On the missed black card, I never seen it at the time and certainly not one player was calling it out. The tv have a few different camera angles to view and can see something that is blocked for an official, maybe justifiably too as they were concentrating on what Rian was up to. You can be sure that was their brief.

Missed or wrongly given point call?? Hmmmm. Human error. Hold your hand up if you've never made a mistake and almost immediately realised it but too late to change.......... Go on and I'll point to someone that's a stranger to the truth. Shit like that happens. This year in Croke Park an umpire gave a wide and was screamed at by numerous players. Even the goalkeeper didn't make his usual "wide" gesture. The ref actually made the Hawkeye call and it turned out to be a score, so even when the technology was available to be used, the official felt he'd made the right call waving it wide and didn't ask for assistance for that one. He was wrong, but no one can say deliberately so.

None whatsoever. A linesman or umpire, even the 4th official may speak to the ref in a break in play and bring to his/her attention an incident that may need dealt with including up to issuing a red card. If someone from the crowd influenced the decision by telling the ref, that's the only thing that would make it different. Having seen the footage, I'd love to see what grounds there are for appeal. He knelt on and held pressure on the dicks head and neck. Rian is a massively talented and strong individual. He should be using that to get up the nose of his opponent and torture them that way. I'm sorry, but I don't see him currently as a captain or leader of that team. Massive player as he is, he cannot possibly lead like that. Should be a north Armagh man anyway

Ah well, again no one died so we move

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niall1980 said:

Putting on the optimistic head here. We can still top the group.
We beat Galway. Not beyond the realms of possibility if we play well. We are both on 4 points.
WM beat Tyrone. Again not beyond the realms of possibility. WM have played well and Tyrone are no great shakes. They are both on 2 points
In this scenario we win the group and Tyrone finish bottom. What's not to like

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bourne said:

Good to know Kieran has the job for as long as he wants, who knew we had become Russia

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Ed Ricketts said:

Some random thoughts on today:

There seemed to be a consensus around me in the stand that we were all watching two poor teams. Some basic skill execution was shocking - balls kicked over the sideline, misplaced 5 yard hand passes, really poor wides. Hard to see either side going further than the quarter finals without huge improvement.

We're 13 proper games into this season, and it still doesn't look like Armagh are close to finding a winning balance in their brand of football. They remain fine defensively, but I have yet to get a sense that there's any sort of structure or plan going forward. It's all very off the cuff, get the ball to O'Neill in the 'shooting pocket', or take a pot shot, or run down a blind alley. This has been the biggest disappointment of the year.

That red card was in the post all year. Rian has been running around like a grumpy heure giving sneaky digs in pretty much every game to date. He gets a lot of abuse himself of course, but that doesn't excuse his own behaviour. This has been his poorest year in an Armagh jersey, and he has capped that by letting everyone down this evening. Someone needs to have a word.

It was a bit mad that Armagh were a desperate fly-kicked clearance away from nicking a draw, despite being largely woeful, and despite playing for about 50 mins with 14 men. A lot of that is down to how nervous and mediocre Tyrone were on the night, but some of it is also due to the valiant efforts of a few Armagh men. Duffy, Murnin and Grugan put in serious shifts for fellas that must have known they were probably chasing a lost cause.

Would love to know what the plan was on that last 50. Only a goal would do, so why was the ball tipped over the bar? Why was Rafferty collecting it short, instead of making a nuisance of himself around the square? Tyrone were jittery as shite at that stage, who knows what might have happened with a decent high ball landed in.

Poor enough evening for Aiden Forker in the FB line. Perhaps it's time to give him a swansong back in the forward line? It feels like he is no longer a better defensive solution than bench options like Paddy Burns or Barry McCambridge, and I'd like to think he could add some creativity to the misfiring forward line. Soupy Campbell confirmed again this evening that he provides much more impact off the bench, so there is probably an open spot in the HF line. I think it's worth a try.

Understandable that Armagh dropped off the Tyrone kick-outs when a man down (at least until they went for broke in the last 10 mins). But I didn't understand the plan before that. Some kick-outs were fully pressed, others were sort of pressed with one/two Tyrone man left free, and yet others weren't really pressed at all. It almost looks like some weird hybrid system to keep the opponent guessing - either that, or the intention actually is to press but it's just really poorly executed by the players. It's definitely frustrating to watch.

Hard to see where Armagh's season sparks from here. They've looked really flat the last two weeks. Energy levels, concentration, discipline all way down on the Ulster final performance. The optimist in me wants to believe that these group stage games have been sacrificed so that the knock out games can be hit with renewed focus, but that's looking a hard sell right now. It feels like things are just drifting a bit, and a feeble ending to the year is just around the corner. We continue to live in hope.

Finally, chat about the management is futile at this stage of the year. Sure they could probably be doing some things better, and I'm certain there will be a thorough evaluation of the situation at the end of the season. But I'd caution those now baying for replacement to be careful what you wish for...

The current group of players didn't just land into McGeeney's lap - he has crafted this team over many, many years. In the absence of any sort of conveyor belt of underage talent over the last decade, resources have had to maximised and intercounty players have had to be moulded from what was available. There are men putting in good shifts for Armagh at the top level who probably wouldn't be near intercounty football under any other management - it's from these efforts that we have our modest amount of squad depth. When the current management team does depart, which may be soon enough, it will very likely precipitate the retirement of up to half a dozen playing stalwarts. We will then enter a rebuilding phase, and with little to shout about in Armagh football recently at underage or club level, it looks not at all unlikely that the only way will be down (or, Down - like in languishing in Div 3 and going nowhere fast). Anyone that thinks we'll hit the next level just by landing Oisin McConville, Tony McEntee, or Malachy O'Rourke in on top of the current playing group isn't living in the real world.

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weeskitter said:

Good to know Kieran has the job for as long as he wants, who knew we had become Russia

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William Of Orange said:

Приятно знать, что Киран работает столько, сколько захочет, кто знал, что мы стали Россией

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Wee man said:

Regarding the last play - to me it seemed like lack of communication
Grugan, forker and Ethan seemed to be signalling to each other that a point was no good and were trying to work a goal chance - but the message never got to conaty (I think it was) and he knocked it over the bar

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