All Ireland series

gael_force_orchard

Well-Known Member
No. Beggan went short to their No. 11 ((Bannigan I think) and Cumiskey tried to run at Beggan to slow the kick out. He 11, moved it on to 17 (can't remember name) and Turbitt was lucky not to clip his heels and get black. Can't make out on the video who 17 moved it to but possibly 5 O'Connell and Conor O'Neill took him down. Again really lucky not to pick up a card. Beggan took the free and went sideways with it eventually resulting in the free that McManus got to take courtesy of a clumsy tackle by 11 Grugan. Beggan was never going to miss around the edge of the D.

Rewinding a bit, the tackle on Soupy that ended in him having to go off was also missed. Highly surprising as the ref is looking directly at it unfold. I can't be certain, but looks like Monaghan 4 Wylie, pushes him as he goes to kick the ball and definitely clips his foot/heel as he goes down causing him to tumble completely. That was a classic black incident and free directly in line with where the ball landed on the 13m line should have been awarded instead of the wide. He gave us a free earlier for a similar incident. That was poor enough, but then as he lay on the ground in distress, looking like cramp, Monaghan 20 (I'm fairly sure Darren Hughes) runs out from the goal line but almost as he passes, deliberately turns left and steps "into" Soupy on the ground. It may have only been a brush past his leg but at the very least it's unsportsmanlike and was a deliberate act. The letter of the law would see it as a strike. On an injured player it's a bit babyish!!

The tackle on Hall resulting in a heavy head injury which he immediately pointed out to the linesman as he was obviously bleeding, should have been seen as bordering on dangerous or rough play. It could have been a red if dealt with properly, but again yellow as a minimum. If we had have done that on any other team, the screams about our bullish behaviour would have been heard for a full year and rightly so. Look at Rian's recent punishment for trying to stop a burglar getting away!

Yes I am sad enough to have watched those last few minutes to pick up on those points
Yes I know it's nit picking and seems like a sore loser - fine I'm a sore loser, but many many people have talked about the small things and small margins
Yes I'm fully aware if I sat through the entire game, pausing and rewinding I'd see things we should have and could have been pulled up on. I imagine I'd find many more Monaghan should have been pulled up on too, but it doesn't mean those points that are factual should be ignored.
Yes I'm annoyed we lost and maybe more so because we should have had it out of sight in normal time. No!! Don't be daft I'm not suggesting we were that much better than them. Just should have been tactically better.
Yes I'm still not over it and I think the fact Monaghan used 2 subs more than they should have, really needs objected to - Okay I made that bit up, but desperate times!

Thank you every player who trained as part of the squad this year or took part in any way. Your efforts and sacrifices are not left un-applauded! I appreciate everything you have done to make this a year to remember.
Thank you to every member of the management and backroom team that did any small or large part this year in an effort to give us the supporters and your families and friends, a team to follow and allow us on that rollercoaster we call sport.

I for one cannot and will not be down on you for making mistakes if you did. You did what you did in the belief that it was for the right reason. I truthfully don't care if others agree with me or not. This is just my thoughts and my opinions. That makes it right for me. For those that have the opinion that management should change, that is one that will be seen in every era and each point you make is valid. Just like mine. I'm in the age bracket that allows me to accept that success is not measured in Social Media likes and the number of £/$/€ in your pocket. Some are fascinated by the "wages" someone gets and speculate infinitely without anything of basis. When challenged for a provable figure, some retreat to things like; "the county board don't release those figures so it must be humungous!" A justification which if used in court would be laughed at, so I can only assume that makes those same speculators politicians as they also know how to avoid simple questioning!

I've never done this and hope I never will again, but aimed directly at Kieran McGeeney:

I was lucky enough to speak to Jarlath Burns at the Athletic Grounds shortly after he retired from playing with the county. I said I just had wished he'd given it one more push. Jarlath replied "You have a great man leading out there now. Believe in him. He has something special about him!"

Geezer I am delighted you do what you do. Massively disappointed at the lack of success we get, but know that whichever way you turn next is the right way for you. You remain as someone who has inspired some of my personal decisions over the last 20+ years particularly in my personal and work decisions. As you said a long time ago, I try every day to be the best I can be. Doesn't mean I'm right. Doesn't mean I always do the right thing. Doesn't mean I'm blinded. Doesn't mean I don't see faults. Doesn't mean I can't see the toll the effort takes! It just means I'm human and fallible. How many can be honest enough to do likewise?

"Be the best you can be!"
All those small things add up Jim and they do grind on us in defeat. Rian was dragged down by the jersey and held on the ground again this game. He didn't react but it just shows that we do get as much given to us as we give out and vice versa. Maybe sour grapes, but there is little protection for the off the ball shenanigans on the better players. The old yellow a piece for 2 players at the same time just isn't fit for purpose.
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
I really liked Donaghy when he first came in. You could see a freshness to our play and an attacking style in the early games. That slowly disappeared last year and we retreated back to our cage as the year wore on and the big games came.
It was clear to see that this year there has been a total change and we have become very cagey to our detriment.
The more you think about it - relegation and a poor AI series (with massive dose of luck to beat WM & to finish top) then defeat to Monaghan - it just hasn't worked at all.
It's hard to know how much of a say he has had to our style overall, or more importantly, can he change it up when needed and make the big calls and plays when in the melting pot or last phases of a big game.
I wonder if another Ciaran had anything to do with the push to a more defensive system
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
No. Beggan went short to their No. 11 ((Bannigan I think) and Cumiskey tried to run at Beggan to slow the kick out. He 11, moved it on to 17 (can't remember name) and Turbitt was lucky not to clip his heels and get black. Can't make out on the video who 17 moved it to but possibly 5 O'Connell and Conor O'Neill took him down. Again really lucky not to pick up a card. Beggan took the free and went sideways with it eventually resulting in the free that McManus got to take courtesy of a clumsy tackle by 11 Grugan. Beggan was never going to miss around the edge of the D.

Rewinding a bit, the tackle on Soupy that ended in him having to go off was also missed. Highly surprising as the ref is looking directly at it unfold. I can't be certain, but looks like Monaghan 4 Wylie, pushes him as he goes to kick the ball and definitely clips his foot/heel as he goes down causing him to tumble completely. That was a classic black incident and free directly in line with where the ball landed on the 13m line should have been awarded instead of the wide. He gave us a free earlier for a similar incident. That was poor enough, but then as he lay on the ground in distress, looking like cramp, Monaghan 20 (I'm fairly sure Darren Hughes) runs out from the goal line but almost as he passes, deliberately turns left and steps "into" Soupy on the ground. It may have only been a brush past his leg but at the very least it's unsportsmanlike and was a deliberate act. The letter of the law would see it as a strike. On an injured player it's a bit babyish!!

The tackle on Hall resulting in a heavy head injury which he immediately pointed out to the linesman as he was obviously bleeding, should have been seen as bordering on dangerous or rough play. It could have been a red if dealt with properly, but again yellow as a minimum. If we had have done that on any other team, the screams about our bullish behaviour would have been heard for a full year and rightly so. Look at Rian's recent punishment for trying to stop a burglar getting away!

Yes I am sad enough to have watched those last few minutes to pick up on those points
Yes I know it's nit picking and seems like a sore loser - fine I'm a sore loser, but many many people have talked about the small things and small margins
Yes I'm fully aware if I sat through the entire game, pausing and rewinding I'd see things we should have and could have been pulled up on. I imagine I'd find many more Monaghan should have been pulled up on too, but it doesn't mean those points that are factual should be ignored.
Yes I'm annoyed we lost and maybe more so because we should have had it out of sight in normal time. No!! Don't be daft I'm not suggesting we were that much better than them. Just should have been tactically better.
Yes I'm still not over it and I think the fact Monaghan used 2 subs more than they should have, really needs objected to - Okay I made that bit up, but desperate times!

Thank you every player who trained as part of the squad this year or took part in any way. Your efforts and sacrifices are not left un-applauded! I appreciate everything you have done to make this a year to remember.
Thank you to every member of the management and backroom team that did any small or large part this year in an effort to give us the supporters and your families and friends, a team to follow and allow us on that rollercoaster we call sport.

I for one cannot and will not be down on you for making mistakes if you did. You did what you did in the belief that it was for the right reason. I truthfully don't care if others agree with me or not. This is just my thoughts and my opinions. That makes it right for me. For those that have the opinion that management should change, that is one that will be seen in every era and each point you make is valid. Just like mine. I'm in the age bracket that allows me to accept that success is not measured in Social Media likes and the number of £/$/€ in your pocket. Some are fascinated by the "wages" someone gets and speculate infinitely without anything of basis. When challenged for a provable figure, some retreat to things like; "the county board don't release those figures so it must be humungous!" A justification which if used in court would be laughed at, so I can only assume that makes those same speculators politicians as they also know how to avoid simple questioning!

I've never done this and hope I never will again, but aimed directly at Kieran McGeeney:

I was lucky enough to speak to Jarlath Burns at the Athletic Grounds shortly after he retired from playing with the county. I said I just had wished he'd given it one more push. Jarlath replied "You have a great man leading out there now. Believe in him. He has something special about him!"

Geezer I am delighted you do what you do. Massively disappointed at the lack of success we get, but know that whichever way you turn next is the right way for you. You remain as someone who has inspired some of my personal decisions over the last 20+ years particularly in my personal and work decisions. As you said a long time ago, I try every day to be the best I can be. Doesn't mean I'm right. Doesn't mean I always do the right thing. Doesn't mean I'm blinded. Doesn't mean I don't see faults. Doesn't mean I can't see the toll the effort takes! It just means I'm human and fallible. How many can be honest enough to do likewise?

"Be the best you can be!"
The hall incident was one I would have liked to have seen again as I was sure it should have been a free for us. Another one was a trip on Ethan after he played the ball Monaghan got a point directly from that. I’m not blaming the ref for us losing. As much as we sometimes like to think it, it is never the reds fault, but I feel those decisions were big and had a bearing on the result
 

Armaghball

Well-Known Member
The last free for McManus was incredibly soft but on balance was a tired tackle from Grugan after 100 minutes of football and it was always going to be given. The one that annoyed me more was when McManus had just came on, he won a free out near the sideline off Conor O’Neill where it looked like he just put the head down, ran into O’Neill and fell to the ground. Never a free for me but not seen many mention it. That and the free against Ethan were disgraceful calls imo
 

thecritic

Well-Known Member
The last free for McManus was incredibly soft but on balance was a tired tackle from Grugan after 100 minutes of football and it was always going to be given. The one that annoyed me more was when McManus had just came on, he won a free out near the sideline off Conor O’Neill where it looked like he just put the head down, ran into O’Neill and fell to the ground. Never a free for me but not seen many mention it. That and the free against Ethan were disgraceful calls imo
McManus and McCarron are the kings of buying frees.
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
If he becomes Armagh manager I will give up going. Not only is he a Tyrone man but he led a revolution in defensive football. This year was hard enough to watch
The fact he is from tyrone doesn’t matter. If he is the best man for the job it doesn’t matter where he is from.
 

Armaghball

Well-Known Member
The fact he is from tyrone doesn’t matter. If he is the best man for the job it doesn’t matter where he is from.
I highly doubt number 1 that he’d come near us and number 2 that the powers that be in the county board would go near him. Likes of Malachy O’Rourke probably a safer bet if the position comes up, which I really don’t think it will.
 

stevie_06

Well-Known Member
I highly doubt number 1 that he’d come near us and number 2 that the powers that be in the county board would go near him. Likes of Malachy O’Rourke probably a safer bet if the position comes up, which I really don’t think it will.
I agree. Don't think there is any chance whatsoever of Harte taking the Armagh job.

But point I was making that he is a manager with a proven track record of winning. That is more than some of the other names mentioned.

Some of the other names I have heard (O'Rourke, Galvin, McGuiness) are just as unrealistic in my opinion.

Also some people calling for attacking football but mentioning defensive minded coaches in the same breath.

Some people will feel I am pro McGeeney (and maybe I am). But I would back any manager that takes over. Same way I would continue to back McGeeney if he stayed on.
 

Naka

Active Member
the manager has another year left so won`t be leaving.
for what its worth this year was extremely disappointing so the county board in their review have to be honest and assertive.
every football man i have spoken to is of the opinion that management lost the game on saturday rather than the players. with this in mind the county board need to empahasis that management must do better be it by way of shaking up the set up and playing to ourstrengths..
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
I highly doubt number 1 that he’d come near us and number 2 that the powers that be in the county board would go near him. Likes of Malachy O’Rourke probably a safer bet if the position comes up, which I really don’t think it will.
I don’t think so either but someone being from Tyrone should not an obstacle to them getting the Armagh job. If they’re the best available
 

Armaghball

Well-Known Member
the manager has another year left so won`t be leaving.
for what its worth this year was extremely disappointing so the county board in their review have to be honest and assertive.
every football man i have spoken to is of the opinion that management lost the game on saturday rather than the players. with this in mind the county board need to empahasis that management must do better be it by way of shaking up the set up and playing to ourstrengths..
Management lost the game surely with the set up, but looking back there were a pile of individual mistakes as well as refereeing ones that cost us. McPartlan in extra time missed a handy enough score as did someone else (Soupy maybe) Rian missed a 45 that you’d expect him to nail all day, Grugan made a balls of that mark from the right hand side and gave away a sloppy free at the last, just to name a few off the top of my head.

100% agree, feel as though there is far more in this group and just hope we don’t lose anyone over the winter. If we got Oisin O’Neill, Ciaron O’Hanlon and TK fit they’d be some boost, as would Nugent if he can get back to last years form and surely Cian McConville will make his break through sometime soon.
 
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