ARMAGH U.20S

[ragingbull]

And a member of the management team for 48 weeks !

i wonder who it could be

 

[Benjie]

While the issue about the Tyrone appeal is thankfully over I think this comment is the type of attitude that is what is wrong with thing these days. There was an all out brawl. If this happened on the street the police would be all over it and rightly so. There is a serious lack of discipline these days with many teams, and I would include my own club in that so don’t think I’m that naive. It happened in my day but not as public as there were not phone cameras there covering them all. I really think that there needs to be a serious review of what the game is. I coach at a number of levels and to my mind I want every team I coach to win. That doesn’t mean I would get them to do anything whatsoever to win and their mentality is thankfully not that. They push it as hard as they can but won’t go over the lines. A very simple example, I was at a blitz the other day with one of the teams and we brought only players who were on the age. There were several clubs, including one of the winning clubs, who brought overage players. These blitzes are run on a gentleman’s agreement of integrity that players used are the correct age. I won’t name the club but suffice to say there were questions raised at the time and as the only club from that county at the blitz it was very hard to dispute it. I said to the organiser of the blitz after the event that it was a really well run event but this was a concern for the future blitzes. My opinion is I would rather lose with integrity then win with a shadow over it. What happened last week is wrong, both sides of the fight were wrong. Sometimes you need to accept that and learn from it. The integrity of our games are being whittled away bit by bit and that is making me question my future involvement

Not really sure where you are going with this but one thing I know for sure is that when coaching young kids including my own children an important point to address is to stand up for yourself. Never show weakness and if someone hits you... hit them back and generally you find they won't do it again.
Armagh stood up for themselves and weren't found wanting and personally this for me is a good thing they have more integrtity now than before
The issue to hand is how quickly it all went public. There are similar scenes week in week out the length and breadth of the country every week and not a word of it.
if you were guaranteed a bit of a row every week attendance would be up at all matches ... time to man up and get over it

 

[M18]

Not really sure where you are going with this but one thing I know for sure is that when coaching young kids including my own children an important point to address is to stand up for yourself. Never show weakness and if someone hits you... hit them back and generally you find they won't do it again.
Armagh stood up for themselves and weren't found wanting and personally this for me is a good thing they have more integrtity now than before
The issue to hand is how quickly it all went public. There are similar scenes week in week out the length and breadth of the country every week and not a word of it.
if you were guaranteed a bit of a row every week attendance would be up at all matches ... time to man up and get over it

I think it is disappointing and unbecoming of our games to be associated with a hard man culture. As BCB states, there is a negative precedent being set at the senior inter county and club level and we are now seeing that at underage levels.

I believe that as a sport and association, we would be better off (through financial grants and playing numbers) to show ourselves as a tough but within the rules sport for children and adults.

Unfortunately I agree with BCB and others. We have sleep walked past this issue countrywide giving token fines and it hasn’t worked. It’s now time to really punish those who are reducing the game to a wrestling match on the floor

 

[bcb1]

Not really sure where you are going with this but one thing I know for sure is that when coaching young kids including my own children an important point to address is to stand up for yourself. Never show weakness and if someone hits you... hit them back and generally you find they won't do it again.
Armagh stood up for themselves and weren't found wanting and personally this for me is a good thing they have more integrtity now than before
The issue to hand is how quickly it all went public. There are similar scenes week in week out the length and breadth of the country every week and not a word of it.
if you were guaranteed a bit of a row every week attendance would be up at all matches ... time to man up and get over it

And therein lies the problem. Man up and get over it? That’s the sort of crap creates this mentality. It’s not manly to hit a man a false slap behind which happens in most of these rows. As an association we need to take responsibility for our actions and what is happening is directly as a result of this approach. If filters from the stand, the sideline, the way teams are coached and it’s Wrong.

 

[Benjie]

And therein lies the problem. Man up and get over it? That’s the sort of crap creates this mentality. It’s not manly to hit a man a false slap behind which happens in most of these rows. As an association we need to take responsibility for our actions and what is happening is directly as a result of this approach. If filters from the stand, the sideline, the way teams are coached and it’s Wrong.

Can't wait to see the new nicey nicey Crossmaglen, be interesting to see how many championships and all Irelands you will win with that approach, should be fun to watch.
Maybe we should remove tackling and shouldering from the game as well just to ensure there is no physicality or contact at all just in case someone got a wee bruise !!

 

[William Of Orange]

Not really sure where you are going with this but one thing I know for sure is that when coaching young kids including my own children an important point to address is to stand up for yourself. Never show weakness and if someone hits you... hit them back and generally you find they won't do it again.
Armagh stood up for themselves and weren't found wanting and personally this for me is a good thing they have more integrtity now than before
The issue to hand is how quickly it all went public. There are similar scenes week in week out the length and breadth of the country every week and not a word of it.
if you were guaranteed a bit of a row every week attendance would be up at all matches ... time to man up and get over it

If you want to see a bit of a row and Kicking lads on the ground is your thing every week head into Newry or Dundalk at 2.00 am on a Saturday night ...idiotic post .

 

[bcb1]

Can't wait to see the new nicey nicey Crossmaglen, be interesting to see how many championships and all Irelands you will win with that approach, should be fun to watch.
Maybe we should remove tackling and shouldering from the game as well just to ensure there is no physicality or contact at all just in case someone got a wee bruise !!

I played in teams that won All irelands and never won a championship because we could fight. We won because we were harder and fitter and faster and better footballers. Man up? We manned up alright but did so by hitting hard shoulders, taking hard shoulders and getting on with the game. I’d love to see your efforts on the sideline or on the field.

 

[Benjie]

I played in teams that won All irelands and never won a championship because we could fight. We won because we were harder and fitter and faster and better footballers. Man up? We manned up alright but did so by hitting hard shoulders, taking hard shoulders and getting on with the game. I’d love to see your efforts on the sideline or on the field.

I'm sure some of your opponents would have had a different take on this such as Maghery in the championship, the Harps in the league and most recently Cullyhanna only a few weeks back whereby we all saw your efforts on the sidelines and in the stands when they had you beaten on the pitch.
As you profess to have been coaching for quite a while now, no doubt some of your proteges are now playing in the senior ranks and adopting your gently, gently approach on these occasions or maybe it was just the opposition??

anyway I digress, lets focus on the under 20s and their quest for championship glory. Hope the appeals go in our favour and we march on to victory on the 24th

 

[Suil eile.]

hearing that the appeals are on Monday night.

 

[JoeH]

hearing that the appeals are on Monday night.

You'd imagine there'd be just a few appealing given the mobile phone evidence thats floating about - some obvious striking going on from both teams

 

[ShiftYa]

In my opinion the gaa should adopt the 3rd man in rule because of the nature of the game tensions will occasionally boil over between players but let them sort it out between themselves and the ref. Any man who jumps in after this (from whatever team) causing it to turn into a mass brawl should then have the book threw at him, that's how most other physical sports handle things.

 

[Ogs lad]

I'm sure some of your opponents would have had a different take on this such as Maghery in the championship, the Harps in the league and most recently Cullyhanna only a few weeks back whereby we all saw your efforts on the sidelines and in the stands when they had you beaten on the pitch.
As you profess to have been coaching for quite a while now, no doubt some of your proteges are now playing in the senior ranks and adopting your gently, gently approach on these occasions or maybe it was just the opposition??

anyway I digress, lets focus on the under 20s and their quest for championship glory. Hope the appeals go in our favour and we march on to victory on the 24th

@bcb1 not worth arguing. Its not a criticism directly Benje of this Armagh side, its more on the notion that free for alls are grand and to be encouraged. They definitely arent. And it's not brave to brawl enmasse. Its the easiest thing in the world. I remember being told that In such situations "hit the biggest guy because chances are he won't get a go back at you as it'll descend into a 30 man pushing and hauling match." That's not brave at all. Far from it

 

[Mickey Gormley]

Is two finalists into the qf like the minors? Or what happens.. Is it u-20 on same day as all ireland finals?

 

[Big Jim]

I played in teams that won All irelands and never won a championship because we could fight. We won because we were harder and fitter and faster and better footballers. Man up? We manned up alright but did so by hitting hard shoulders, taking hard shoulders and getting on with the game. I’d love to see your efforts on the sideline or on the field.

And therein lies my thinking too. We have a tough physical contact sport and is glorious to watch when played within the rules as indeed almost the entire U20 game was. Hard hitting but fair with tremendous tackles, shoulder tackles, dispossessions and scoring. The ugly scenes are nowhere in the rules and that's the bit we need stamped on. Not the actual physical element of the game which all good coaches teach properly.

 

[Big Jim]

You'd imagine there'd be just a few appealing given the mobile phone evidence thats floating about - some obvious striking going on from both teams

Mobile phone evidence cannot be used as it cannot be verified as accurate. Only official footage and/or cctv

 

[Big Jim]

In my opinion the gaa should adopt the 3rd man in rule because of the nature of the game tensions will occasionally boil over between players but let them sort it out between themselves and the ref. Any man who jumps in after this (from whatever team) causing it to turn into a mass brawl should then have the book threw at him, that's how most other physical sports handle things.

There is a 3rd man rule already. Anyone else can be cited for "contributing to a melee" which carries a similar 1 game sanction to striking or attempting to strike.

 

[JoeH]

Mobile phone evidence cannot be used as it cannot be verified as accurate. Only official footage and/or cctv

Yes very true but it can't be much different from the official footage

 

[Big Jim]

Yes very true but it can't be much different from the official footage

Absolutely, but just can't be used. I know in some cases it's indisputable, but it's very easy to edit or manipulate video to look like a lot of things and the order that they happen or appear can be changed, so presumably that's why unless it can be verified, it can't be used.

Problem is, all these terrified people that "love" their association and are avid "supporters" of their county are very fast to whip out a camera and record and quickly post this stuff to social media. They then talk about how distraught they were at the scenes. I'm sorry, but people choose to be very easily "offended or terrified" by these things. If I was terrified I wouldn't hang around to record it and post immediately to social media to get "likes" or "shares".

Very sorry to say this, but I don't understand how they can square the circle between supporting their team and yet they use the vulgar opportunity to show it in it's lowest light. A bad reflection on an organisation they are part of.

Please don't get me wrong. Those scenes are deplorable and unwanted. But why give those that love to knock our organisation all the information and ammunition and footage they need - and it has been rife again recently especially around Lurgan.

Again this discussion is taking away from what was possibly the best game seen in recent times in The AG - possibly ever!

 

[Big Jim]

By the way, having spoken to someone close to our team today, we have only two players and a mentor suspended.

 

[Ard Mhacha 13]

Absolutely, but just can't be used. I know in some cases it's indisputable, but it's very easy to edit or manipulate video to look like a lot of things and the order that they happen or appear can be changed, so presumably that's why unless it can be verified, it can't be used.

Problem is, all these terrified people that "love" their association and are avid "supporters" of their county are very fast to whip out a camera and record and quickly post this stuff to social media. They then talk about how distraught they were at the scenes. I'm sorry, but people choose to be very easily "offended or terrified" by these things. If I was terrified I wouldn't hang around to record it and post immediately to social media to get "likes" or "shares".

Very sorry to say this, but I don't understand how they can square the circle between supporting their team and yet they use the vulgar opportunity to show it in it's lowest light. A bad reflection on an organisation they are part of.

Please don't get me wrong. Those scenes are deplorable and unwanted. But why give those that love to knock our organisation all the information and ammunition and footage they need - and it has been rife again recently especially around Lurgan.

Again this discussion is taking away from what was possibly the best game seen in recent times in The AG - possibly ever!

In total agreement with this post.
People complain about the brawl happening (& yes I fully agree it was regrettable & SHOULD NOT have happened) but then these same people stand up to get a better view of the brawl & produce their mobiles to record it!!!! I just can not get my head around that at all.