Senior championship 2022 & 2023

[GAAGael]

have you ever tried it yourself ??
was in the AG last night.
the verbal abuse directed at one of the linesman from a section of the clan na gael supporters was nothing short of disgraceful.
im talking about really aggressive personal insults on a first name basis
one individual in particular had to asked to sit down by the stewarts. IMO he should have been asked to leave
give respect - get respect my hole

and im not singling out clan na gael. at the cross match you refer to some of the abuse fired at the ref from the cross support was also unacceptable. again personal stuff, 'your only a little b*****d ollie'.

give out all you want about the standard of officiating but while this is being tolerated its little wonder so few are taking it up...

I actually was a referee, just because someone isn't one, doesn't save referees from criticism.

Not once did I mention that I tolerate abusing officials, but you should be able to question their decisions.

Disappointing for lads to train/play 4-5 nights for 9-10 months of the year and have someone blatantly try to derail their journey.

Consistency and equality is all any team will ask for.

 

[bcb1]

Commiserations to Rufus and all the other Harps heads, definitely one that you could have won. The goals were maybe a bit fortunate but they did expose gaps in our defence. Some of our own decision making was questionable at key times, reckless passing from key players. Either team could have won it in normal time but the gap we got in extra time was a tough one to pull back. That is a key aspect of playing extra time football. Get a 2-3 point lead and that can be very hard to close out.

I only saw our game so cannot comment overall on the refs. One thing is telling though, the same few refs are there year in/year out. The reason for that is that no one wants to do it anymore. As a consequence there will be conscious or unconscious bias within refs and within supporters. You know the line ‘ah fcuk we got such and such as ref….we are gonna get nothing.’ There needs to be more refs but why would they do it to listen to what they do….from every club including my own!

 

[winsamsoon]

I was at the match last night. The incident happened close to me. It was clearly a Killeavey line ball and Soupy come in and essentially prevented a quick line ball, which Killeavey were desperate to take as they were chasing the game. That provoked a reaction from the Killeavey defender and he lashed out with his forearm, although from my vantage point I thought he had missed Soupy. Regardless, he could have been sent off for intent alone.

As for Soupy getting targeted, I did not see anything above and beyond what happened to a lot of other good forwards during the matches I watched over the weekend. It is a reality of modern football.

In my opinion, the standard of refereeing - like the standard of football itself - is very poor in our County. There is a culture / willingness to try and let the game flow too much and leads to a lot of undisciplined play which I am convinced has an impact on our poor disciplinary record at inter county level.

That said, I will not have a go at the referees, nor indeed the referees committee. Why? Because they are indeed doing a thankless, but essential job, for the benefit of us all. They are overworked, underpaid and get absolute dogs abuse for that privilege. I've asked before. Who the hell in their right mind would be a referee?

Referees are assessed and the best are put forward for the big games. But if you start denying referees matches - when there currently are not enough to go around - then you'll soon have no matches.

Whilst you may not have a go at it Rufus, there are some that may and they are entintiled to do so as they also invest a lot of time and effort into their own perspective participation.

They are assessed but they are not pulled on specific major incidents in games and they should be. There should also be repercussions as it is a paid role and they have chosen to be in that positions. It's not an excuse for poor performance to say that we don't have enough of them. I am well aware of the shortage of them and the fantastic work that goes on, on a daily basis to try and cover every game. Theres a pool of about 6 or 7 that coordinates the whole thing and I hold them in the highest regard. But we need to be getting things more consistent and that isn't a massive demand.

Also I am not just saying Soupy as it is happening to every decent player in the county, again this should also be hammered by refs, i find some of them have the attitude that county players in particular need to be taught manners and therefore they can be battered at will. I also recognise that can be the other extreme.

Its a thing that will never be resolved to everyone satisfaction, I just hate coming away from games where the officials have been the major talking point.

 

[ShiftYa]

There should also be repercussions as it is a paid role and they have chosen to be in that positions.

I don’t think many get into refereeing for the money, and to start punishing them financially or otherwise would surely drive more to step away.

 

[jpowell100]

People can just about stomach a bad referee, it’s one who’s clearly biased that’s really hard to take

 

[Wee man]

People can just about stomach a bad referee, it’s one who’s clearly biased that’s really hard to take

Which game are you referring to?
I attended them all as a neutral and didn’t notice any bias. Bad calls will happen and did but balance out over the game.

For example, clan na Gael supporters seem very aggrieved over a decision not to send off no 3 for striking soupie towards the end of the game. I would argue it would have had very little outcome on the game as Clans were in control by that stage.
However the same ref did send off a killeavy man in the first half which totally affected the outcome of the game. So how could he be accused of bias??

 

[ShiftYa]

People can just about stomach a bad referee, it’s one who’s clearly biased that’s really hard to take

I’d say in almost every game both sets of supporters/players/management will come away with the opinion the referee was somehow against them.

Yes there are some that can watch a game involving their team and give an objective evaluation of the refs performance but they’re certainly not as common as the bias supporter.

 

[niall1980]

Onto the semi's we go then....

Madden simply just overpowered the Nab who looked toothless and showed their aging panel, went out with a whimper

Never seen the Cross match but from all accounts they were lucky enough in the end, the Jekyl and Hyde Harps almost done it again.

Clans/Killeavey- In a game undoubtedly affected by the weather and the early red card, I thought the clans showed great tenacity and never let up, Killeavey rallied a little after the break but this was when the game was done. Officiating again has to be questioned, great players being systematically fouled time and time again. Campbell actually received two punches to the back of the head whilst trying to retrieve the ball for a sideline kick. This was two yards from the linesman and 20 from the ref. The outcome being a yellow for Campbell and their number 3 (who threw both punches) and a red for one of the Clans management team. The blues played very well and will be going into the semi with a ball of confidence.

Silverbridge/Clann Eireann- Again affected by the weather but not a massively convincing performance by CE, done what they had to get over the line and really that is all that matters. For a brief moment at the beginning of the second half when Silverbridge got their goal it looked like they were going to muster a big effort. Any hope was killed with CE fortunate second goal. Again inconsistencies with the reffing, there must have been 10 frees awarded for off the ground in the first 15 minutes, several of these as a result of the ref allowing fouls to happen and then six or seven men grappling for ball on the ground, just blow the fouls for god sake. The ref seemed to let a lot of contact go and then gave a few bizarre ones, most notably a free to Silverbridge after a fantastic block, the lad just crawled along the ground obstructing the ball and somehow got a free out.

Set up now for two cracker ties, Madden will definetly give Cross all they want, if they keep their emphasis on the football they are in with a cracking chance. They had Cross beaten a few years back then got dragged into a physical battle, lost discipline and the game.

Clan Na Gael (The only Clans) and Clann Eireann has the making of a great game also, there will be a great buzz around the town now for the next couple of weeks, this has the makings of a real old time championship game and will be decided by fine margins. Hopefully the Blues come out on top.

I see a local commentator on the club scene is already organising a panel of guests plus an audience to discuss the games, should be some colourful exchanges

Kileavy no3 should have walked but campbell wasnt innocent. He gave a late shoulder into the full back. The abuse towards bubbles was very poor. He will ahve told the ref what he seen. It was the ref who made the decision. I thought the red card was harsh. There is an issue in our game with more and more players are going down holding their heads when they clearly havent been touched in the head. Ref was shocking. At least once a Kileavy player dived on a DLB on the ground but was awarded a free. Very inconsistent for both teams - all 4 on Sunday to be fair.
CE's second goal was fortunate but Silverbridge's came direct from a keeper error so also fortunate. Sometimes I think the ref was gsessing when he awarded frees. All 4 teams benefited from this on Sunday and all 4 will feel rightly aggrieved at some decisions given against them.
Two weeks time should be fun

 

[winsamsoon]

I never seen what the red was for, was too far away but it was after consultation with the Umpire so I am assuming there was a kick out or strike of some description

In relation to Weemans comments, It's really irrelevant whether or not it affected the actualy outcome, the facts are that the man clearly struck an opponent and got off with it, both players received the same punishment and when you have been battered all match you can then see how people become agrieved. I also haven't stated he was bias, just poor on that particular incident. You may be referring to JP'S claim though.

Referees are there to apply the rules, not their version or interpreation of the rules.

 

[Mootz]

People can just about stomach a bad referee, it’s one who’s clearly biased that’s really hard to take

Paudie Hughes supposedly one of the best refs in the county done everything he could to deny Wolfe Tones a victory in the intermediate championship on Saturday. A soft free for an all edged touch on the ground to allow pearse og to level at normal time, and an even more bizarre decision at the end of extra time to award pearse og a free and possession of the football back with 30 seconds to go, which enabled them to level again, for what still nobody knows. Lads train all year and to get robbed by a decision like that is scandalous.

Watched the dublin championship and a bit of the tyrone one, and the refs are never the talking points. Always seem to be In our game due to how blatantly poor they are.

 

[armaghlad]

Kileavy no3 should have walked but campbell wasnt innocent. He gave a late shoulder into the full back. The abuse towards bubbles was very poor. He will ahve told the ref what he seen. It was the ref who made the decision. I thought the red card was harsh. There is an issue in our game with more and more players are going down holding their heads when they clearly havent been touched in the head. Ref was shocking. At least once a Kileavy player dived on a DLB on the ground but was awarded a free. Very inconsistent for both teams - all 4 on Sunday to be fair.

CE's second goal was fortunate but Silverbridge's came direct from a keeper error so also fortunate. Sometimes I think the ref was gsessing when he awarded frees. All 4 teams benefited from this on Sunday and all 4 will feel rightly aggrieved at some decisions given against them.
Two weeks time should be fun

Another neutral here. I watched both games last night.

It was apparent in the first ten minutes of Clans/Killeavy that Killeavy were trying to get in the heads of the Clans players - a couple of occasions off the ball I saw a bit of handbags anytime play was at the other end. They also left a few tackles in late which the ref let go; a bit of a bye ball as the conditions made it hard to judge at times I’ll grant you that. It was clear in my eyes however that if there was a team that had a tactic to try & get a retaliation early on it was Killeavy and it backfired with Boylan getting a soft-ish red after 10mins.

From there on I feel the ref was a little harder on Clans, I’m sure the card count will testify to that. For him to not send off McKinney for a black & white, clear as day striking offence is comical. It’s not as if he needed the linesman’s opinion as he was looking right at the incident himself when it happened - the sequence of play as I saw it was Campbell was turned over by McGuinness and the ball went out of play, linesman gave sideline ball to Killeavy (slightly dubious as I thought Killeavy man touched it last). Campbell was shouldered from behind by McGuinness, he then let the momentum from that carry himself to shoulder McKinney (both shoulders were with as much power as a watery fart), who then strikes Campbell from behind.

Soupy deserved a yellow certainly for acting the bollox but it was as clear a red as you’ll see all weekend. I can certainly see how any supporter would be aggrieved at that. I also need to finish with the caveat that I rate both the officials involved as two of the better in the county.

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Whilst you may not have a go at it Rufus, there are some that may and they are entintiled to do so as they also invest a lot of time and effort into their own perspective participation.

There should also be repercussions as it is a paid role and they have chosen to be in that positions.

On your first point above, that's fine. However all you are doing is accentuating a culture of officials getting the blame and being harassed / intimidated, which in turn puts people off volunteering for the role, which lessens the pool of referees which means standards remain very low. At that point you give off about the referees again and the circle repeats.

On your second point, I was not aware that our referees were paid. Amazing that there are not more putting themselves forward for the role. Hopefully their contracts will have performance related targets to further incentivise top quality refereeing.

 

[Wee man]

I never seen what the red was for, was too far away but it was after consultation with the Umpire so I am assuming there was a kick out or strike of some description

In relation to Weemans comments, It's really irrelevant whether or not it affected the actualy outcome, the facts are that the man clearly struck an opponent and got off with it, both players received the same punishment and when you have been battered all match you can then see how people become agrieved. I also haven't stated he was bias, just poor on that particular incident. You may be referring to JP'S claim though.

Referees are there to apply the rules, not their version or interpreation of the rules.

agree no 3 deserved to go. it was a clear strike from where I was too.
A really bad decision, absolutely no question and supporters every right to feel aggrieved.
but that is not my point.
Regardless of how bad the decision was, the abuse of the linesman was totally out of order. I don't care how bad the call is it needs to stop.
Also, the foul mouthed tirade of abuse was in front of kids. How are we going to teach them to respect refs when grown men are behaving like that ?

I would also agree with your earlier post about players needing more protection. I didnt notice the attention that Soupie received during the game, it could have been happening off the ball. But in the following game, Jarly Og took some serious punishment.

 

[niall1980]

I never seen what the red was for, was too far away but it was after consultation with the Umpire so I am assuming there was a kick out or strike of some description

In relation to Weemans comments, It's really irrelevant whether or not it affected the actualy outcome, the facts are that the man clearly struck an opponent and got off with it, both players received the same punishment and when you have been battered all match you can then see how people become agrieved. I also haven't stated he was bias, just poor on that particular incident. You may be referring to JP'S claim though.

Referees are there to apply the rules, not their version or interpreation of the rules.

a yellow would have been fine, especially given the fact the no3 only received a yellow for what he done later.
I did say all 4 teams would have reason to feel aggrieved. On refs being biased, I dont think Ive ever seen a bias ref - and that includes intercounty despite what some armagh fans may think - just plenty of bad refs. Or to be more fair, inconsistent refs.

 

[niall1980]

Kileavy no3 should have walked but campbell wasnt innocent. He gave a late shoulder into the full back. The abuse towards bubbles was very poor. He will ahve told the ref what he seen. It was the ref who made the decision. I thought the red card was harsh. There is an issue in our game with more and more players are going down holding their heads when they clearly havent been touched in the head. Ref was shocking. At least once a Kileavy player dived on a DLB on the ground but was awarded a free. Very inconsistent for both teams - all 4 on Sunday to be fair.

Another neutral here. I watched both games last night.

It was apparent in the first ten minutes of Clans/Killeavy that Killeavy were trying to get in the heads of the Clans players - a couple of occasions off the ball I saw a bit of handbags anytime play was at the other end. They also left a few tackles in late which the ref let go; a bit of a bye ball as the conditions made it hard to judge at times I’ll grant you that. It was clear in my eyes however that if there was a team that had a tactic to try & get a retaliation early on it was Killeavy and it backfired with Boylan getting a soft-ish red after 10mins.

From there on I feel the ref was a little harder on Clans, I’m sure the card count will testify to that. For him to not send off McKinney for a black & white, clear as day striking offence is comical. It’s not as if he needed the linesman’s opinion as he was looking right at the incident himself when it happened - the sequence of play as I saw it was Campbell was turned over by McGuinness and the ball went out of play, linesman gave sideline ball to Killeavy (slightly dubious as I thought Killeavy man touched it last). Campbell was shouldered from behind by McGuinness, he then let the momentum from that carry himself to shoulder McKinney (both shoulders were with as much power as a watery fart), who then strikes Campbell from behind.

Soupy deserved a yellow certainly for acting the bollox but it was as clear a red as you’ll see all weekend. I can certainly see how any supporter would be aggrieved at that. I also need to finish with the caveat that I rate both the officials involved as two of the better in the county.

Kileavy were poor last night and didnt seem to have sort of plan at all. Surprising from a team managed by Tommy Coleman

 

[winsamsoon]

agree no 3 deserved to go. it was a clear strike from where I was too.
A really bad decision, absolutely no question and supporters every right to feel aggrieved.
but that is not my point.
Regardless of how bad the decision was, the abuse of the linesman was totally out of order. I don't care how bad the call is it needs to stop.
Also, the foul mouthed tirade of abuse was in front of kids. How are we going to teach them to respect refs when grown men are behaving like that ?

I would also agree with your earlier post about players needing more protection. I didnt notice the attention that Soupie received during the game, it could have been happening off the ball. But in the following game, Jarly Og took some serious punishment.

I could be wrong but i saw an ambulance with the blue lights on straight aftere the bridge game, Jarly Og looked very confused and shakey when coming off. I was thinking he was possibly in it as he seemed to be indicating he was dizzy.

Nobody is condoning the abuse lads, I was right there where it happened and yes I heard a few things spouted at the number 3, I may actually have shouted a few wee sneaky ones myself. Didn't mention the linesman or ref only to say it was a disgrace.

 

[winsamsoon]

a yellow would have been fine, especially given the fact the no3 only received a yellow for what he done later.
I did say all 4 teams would have reason to feel aggrieved. On refs being biased, I dont think Ive ever seen a bias ref - and that includes intercounty despite what some armagh fans may think - just plenty of bad refs. Or to be more fair, inconsistent refs.

I have seen a bias one, time and time again he proves it

 

[winsamsoon]

On your first point above, that's fine. However all you are doing is accentuating a culture of officials getting the blame and being harassed / intimidated, which in turn puts people off volunteering for the role, which lessens the pool of referees which means standards remain very low. At that point you give off about the referees again and the circle repeats.

On your second point, I was not aware that our referees were paid. Amazing that there are not more putting themselves forward for the role. Hopefully their contracts will have performance related targets to further incentivise top quality refereeing.

You will have to change your name to Joe Brolly, speak of contracts and call it expenses if you like, they are paid for their service and it could be improved. Making excuses for poor performance only adds to the problem.

 

[CEMan]

Kileavy no3 should have walked but campbell wasnt innocent. He gave a late shoulder into the full back. The abuse towards bubbles was very poor. He will ahve told the ref what he seen. It was the ref who made the decision. I thought the red card was harsh. There is an issue in our game with more and more players are going down holding their heads when they clearly havent been touched in the head. Ref was shocking. At least once a Kileavy player dived on a DLB on the ground but was awarded a free. Very inconsistent for both teams - all 4 on Sunday to be fair.
CE's second goal was fortunate but Silverbridge's came direct from a keeper error so also fortunate. Sometimes I think the ref was gsessing when he awarded frees. All 4 teams benefited from this on Sunday and all 4 will feel rightly aggrieved at some decisions given against them.
Two weeks time should be fun

What is a DLB ?

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

You will have to change your name to Joe Brolly, speak of contracts and call it expenses if you like, they are paid for their service and it could be improved. Making excuses for poor performance only adds to the problem.

You're framing the situation to make the criticism of what are volunteers, to be much more acceptable. They are not paid. They get expenses to cover their costs in travelling up and down the county. Those expenses are not in the same league as the 'expenses' paid to managers in nearly every club in the land. The referees' expenses are basic. No-one would be doing it for the money / expenses. Of that I would be sure.