Ulster Senior Football Championship 2021

[Patrick-Armagh]

I feel that McGeeney's ratification as the manager for another year will be greeted with an extremely mixed reception. Some will be seething, some will be over the moon and others will be fine it with it. Personally, if the players want him to stay and see progress being made, then ultimately that's all that matters. They are the ones who are playing and will have a no better view of the progress made. In the absence of an outstanding candidate for the job elsewhere (I doubt Jim Gavin was interested!), I don't see anyone else doing a better job at present. There are some serious faults in the team that need addressing if we are to progress and in all honesty haven't been under McGeeney's reign; our inability to see out matches, our defence and our tackling. Those are areas of fair criticism for McGeeney and until some of those are comprehensively fixed, Ulster semi finals and retaining Division 1 status is as good as it will get.

 

[Too Long Ref]

In the absence of an outstanding candidate for the job elsewhere (I doubt Jim Gavin was interested!), I don't see anyone else doing a better job at present.

I think this is an important point - I for one don't see an outstanding candidate inside the county waiting in the wings.

 

[POINTMAN]

I feel that McGeeney's ratification as the manager for another year will be greeted with an extremely mixed reception. Some will be seething, some will be over the moon and others will be fine it with it. Personally, if the players want him to stay and see progress being made, then ultimately that's all that matters. They are the ones who are playing and will have a no better view of the progress made. In the absence of an outstanding candidate for the job elsewhere (I doubt Jim Gavin was interested!), I don't see anyone else doing a better job at present. There are some serious faults in the team that need addressing if we are to progress and in all honesty haven't been under McGeeney's reign; our inability to see out matches, our defence and our tackling. Those are areas of fair criticism for McGeeney and until some of those are comprehensively fixed, Ulster semi finals and retaining Division 1 status is as good as it will get.

So if he has not addressed those failings in all of his years as manager to date - what makes you think he will be able to so next year?
I'm afraid that we are not getting the maximum out of this group of players - and will have to settle for more of the same again.

 

[POINTMAN]

I think this is an important point - I for one don't see an outstanding candidate inside the county waiting in the wings.

How do we know who is available if approached?
Jim McGuinness, Stephen Rochford, McEntire, Oisin, Jack O'connor etc ???

If Geezer was not our ex captain he would have been let go long ago.

 

[Bro]

How do we know who is available if approached?
Jim McGuinness, Stephen Rochford, McEntire, Oisin, Jack O'connor etc ???

If Geezer was not our ex captain he would have been let go long ago.

what about big barry flynn, pointman, he has the crupps flying!

But in all honestly is it last chance saloon for geezer?

 

[Patrick-Armagh]

So if he has not addressed those failings in all of his years as manager to date - what makes you think he will be able to so next year?
I'm afraid that we are not getting the maximum out of this group of players - and will have to settle for more of the same again.

I didn't say he would and I can't say that he will. He can try and address these issues and hope that it finally clicks but are the players good enough to do it? Defensively speaking, is there anyone playing club football, that isn't on the panel that will solve the problems in defence? Is there a rock solid 3 and 6 that he has been overlooked that will add the size and pace to our defence that we are lacking? So there is a finite amount that can be done. So do we as supporters have to accept that there is only so much that we can achieve with the players we've got.

Ultimately it comes down to the players and if they want him to stay and try and work through these problems. What more of a maximum do you think he should be getting from them?

 

[POINTMAN]

I didn't say he would and I can't say that he will. He can try and address these issues and hope that it finally clicks but are the players good enough to do it? Defensively speaking, is there anyone playing club football, that isn't on the panel that will solve the problems in defence? Is there a rock solid 3 and 6 that he has been overlooked that will add the size and pace to our defence that we are lacking? So there is a finite amount that can be done. So do we as supporters have to accept that there is only so much that we can achieve with the players we've got.

Ultimately it comes down to the players and if they want him to stay and try and work through these problems. What more of a maximum do you think he should be getting from them?

How about a good coach / manager making the team a greater unit than the sum of the individual parts.
Geezer has failed to do that - particularly in defence where we lack a clear strategy.

There is also a school of thought that he (and the team) is merely benefitting from the availability of a number of outstanding players in the attacking half.

Hence my suggestion that a better coach could align a better defensive strategy with our attacking prowess and gain better performances and results.

Also - a coach who knows how to get a team when they are in the lead to hold on to that lead and see out a game.

Geezer has come up short too many times as a manager.

We will never know for sure until we try someone else - but nothing tried is nothing gained !

 

[JoeH]

In the 3 league games Armagh conceded 55 points (goals and points combined)
Taking all eight teams
Kerry 47
Tyrone 48
Armagh 55
Dublin 55
Monaghan 56
Donegal 58
Roscommon 68
Galway 71

Average concede over the three games is 18.3pts per game for Armagh

14 points conceded against Antrim
Then the anomaly against monaghan

Monaghan conceded 14 playing Fermanagh and then the anamoly against Armagh

We scored 27pts in both ulster games as well

If memory serves me right we played Donegal and lost an entire full back line within 20mins or so.

So this defensive issue is perhaps not as big an issue as its made out to be. By the same token have Dublin a defensive issue?

 

[Armagh_paul]

I didn't say he would and I can't say that he will. He can try and address these issues and hope that it finally clicks but are the players good enough to do it? Defensively speaking, is there anyone playing club football, that isn't on the panel that will solve the problems in defence? Is there a rock solid 3 and 6 that he has been overlooked that will add the size and pace to our defence that we are lacking? So there is a finite amount that can be done. So do we as supporters have to accept that there is only so much that we can achieve with the players we've got.

Ultimately it comes down to the players and if they want him to stay and try and work through these problems. What more of a maximum do you think he should be getting from them?

Just a point to make - no point talking about management now. We have McGeeney for another year whether any of us like it or not.

As for defence, McGeeney hasn't exactly tried to change things up in defence. He has persisted with defenders that cannot defend. Other than for Forker, Morgan and to an extent Kennedy I very much doubt we have the best available defenders in the county on our senior team. This is by far the worse defensive setup we have had for a number of years. Even if we do not have good defenders, it isn't going to get any worse by chopping and changing a few things is it? What is the point in persisting with players that I am sorry to say have not lived up to expectations or are not at the required standard. There does not appear to be any chopping and changing within the senior team. If this is what five years of development has brought us then perhaps most of the posters on here are right to use the league as a barometer for success because we aren't going to be successful in the championship. The lack of chopping and changing to me would suggest we have a team that prioritise acting like sheep.

 

[Armagh_paul]

In the 3 league games Armagh conceded 55 points (goals and points combined)
Taking all eight teams
Kerry 47
Tyrone 48
Armagh 55
Dublin 55
Monaghan 56
Donegal 58
Roscommon 68
Galway 71

Average concede over the three games is 18.3pts per game for Armagh

14 points conceded against Antrim
Then the anomaly against monaghan

Monaghan conceded 14 playing Fermanagh and then the anamoly against Armagh

We scored 27pts in both ulster games as well

If memory serves me right we played Donegal and lost an entire full back line within 20mins or so.

So this defensive issue is perhaps not as big an issue as its made out to be. By the same token have Dublin a defensive issue?

That was Tyrone.

Ulster is in a very poor state because nobody defends - it is an Ulster issue - except Fermanagh who try to defend but can't even do that right. Tyrone are the only team in Ulster that has any sort of defence and even with that I think Kerry will slaughter them again in the Championship. I am not being cocky when I say this but if we were able to come up with a defensive system that could be implemented and have defenders that can do a job we would walk Ulster. It would make us so much better than anything else in Ulster.

 

[JoeH]

Just a point to make - no point talking about management now. We have McGeeney for another year whether any of us like it or not.

As for defence, McGeeney hasn't exactly tried to change things up in defence. He has persisted with defenders that cannot defend. Other than for Forker, Morgan and to an extent Kennedy I very much doubt we have the best available defenders in the county on our senior team. This is by far the worse defensive setup we have had for a number of years. Even if we do not have good defenders, it isn't going to get any worse by chopping and changing a few things is it? What is the point in persisting with players that I am sorry to say have not lived up to expectations or are not at the required standard. There does not appear to be any chopping and changing within the senior team. If this is what five years of development has brought us then perhaps most of the posters on here are right to use the league as a barometer for success because we aren't going to be successful in the championship. The lack of chopping and changing to me would suggest we have a team that prioritise acting like sheep.

Ross Finn
Ciaron OHanlon
Tiernan Kelly
Conor Turbitt
Shea Magill
Ross mcquillan

Only eight of the starting team from the disaster 2020 Donegal game started against Monaghan

Sometimes we need to look at facts before forming an opinion

 

[armaghlad]

Can anyone name me defenders that aren’t in the county set up or haven’t already been tried that should be there? I’m happy enough for McGeeney to get another year, a new man would face the exact same problems and unless he’s able to magic a new full back line out of thin air then I don’t see what can be done

 

[Armagh_paul]

Ross Finn
Ciaron OHanlon
Tiernan Kelly
Conor Turbitt
Shea Magill
Ross mcquillan

Only eight of the starting team from the disaster 2020 Donegal game started against Monaghan

Sometimes we need to look at facts before forming an opinion

Maybe you need to learn to read as I was talking about defenders

 

[Armaghball]

In the 3 league games Armagh conceded 55 points (goals and points combined)
Taking all eight teams
Kerry 47
Tyrone 48
Armagh 55
Dublin 55
Monaghan 56
Donegal 58
Roscommon 68
Galway 71

Average concede over the three games is 18.3pts per game for Armagh

14 points conceded against Antrim
Then the anomaly against monaghan

Monaghan conceded 14 playing Fermanagh and then the anamoly against Armagh

We scored 27pts in both ulster games as well

If memory serves me right we played Donegal and lost an entire full back line within 20mins or so.

So this defensive issue is perhaps not as big an issue as its made out to be. By the same token have Dublin a defensive issue?

Was Monaghan an anomaly though or just a reality check for our defence? At the same time we were missing our keeper at short notice replaced with a lad making his debut and were also missing our best defender in Forker.

 

[Armaghball]

Just a point to make - no point talking about management now. We have McGeeney for another year whether any of us like it or not.

As for defence, McGeeney hasn't exactly tried to change things up in defence. He has persisted with defenders that cannot defend. Other than for Forker, Morgan and to an extent Kennedy I very much doubt we have the best available defenders in the county on our senior team. This is by far the worse defensive setup we have had for a number of years. Even if we do not have good defenders, it isn't going to get any worse by chopping and changing a few things is it? What is the point in persisting with players that I am sorry to say have not lived up to expectations or are not at the required standard. There does not appear to be any chopping and changing within the senior team. If this is what five years of development has brought us then perhaps most of the posters on here are right to use the league as a barometer for success because we aren't going to be successful in the championship. The lack of chopping and changing to me would suggest we have a team that prioritise acting like sheep.

Who are these defenders that would improve us? Are there better defenders at any club than the likes of McKay and McCabe though?

 

[Patrick-Armagh]

How about a good coach / manager making the team a greater unit than the sum of the individual parts.
Geezer has failed to do that - particularly in defence where we lack a clear strategy.

There is also a school of thought that he (and the team) is merely benefitting from the availability of a number of outstanding players in the attacking half.

Hence my suggestion that a better coach could align a better defensive strategy with our attacking prowess and gain better performances and results.

Also - a coach who knows how to get a team when they are in the lead to hold on to that lead and see out a game.

Geezer has come up short too many times as a manager.

We will never know for sure until we try someone else - but nothing tried is nothing gained !

I wouldn't argue with you about the coaching and getting better results with a better defensive strategy. I don't think it's a school of thought, but an absolute certainty that we are banking on our attacking players to win us games by simply outscoring the opposition, rather than shutting them out! I think that's why we've seen the team defend en masse, as we aren't good enough to do it with less bodies back there, with the idea being to create turnovers and score on the break. I think there's an argument that a better coach could get more out of the defence, but at the expense of our attack, as there isn't a batch of top quality defenders not playing for the county team as far as I know and to make us more defensively sound would mean we sacrifice some of our attackers to pack out the defence further.

I'm seeing it from a 'careful what you wish for' perspective. McGeeney has developed a far better squad than he inherited. The players obviously want to play for him. Progress has been made, though I think there's not a whole lot more he can do to take them to another level and that without an obvious outstanding candidate ready to take over, a new manager could set things back, after the steps we've taken forward.

 

[JoeH]

Maybe you need to learn to read as I was talking about defenders

"the lack of chopping and changing" is what I read and I simply detailed some players who came in this year and made their mark

 

[niall1980]

Just a point to make - no point talking about management now. We have McGeeney for another year whether any of us like it or not.

As for defence, McGeeney hasn't exactly tried to change things up in defence. He has persisted with defenders that cannot defend. Other than for Forker, Morgan and to an extent Kennedy I very much doubt we have the best available defenders in the county on our senior team. This is by far the worse defensive setup we have had for a number of years. Even if we do not have good defenders, it isn't going to get any worse by chopping and changing a few things is it? What is the point in persisting with players that I am sorry to say have not lived up to expectations or are not at the required standard. There does not appear to be any chopping and changing within the senior team. If this is what five years of development has brought us then perhaps most of the posters on here are right to use the league as a barometer for success because we aren't going to be successful in the championship. The lack of chopping and changing to me would suggest we have a team that prioritise acting like sheep.

Of we don’t have the best defenders in the county in the panel then who should be there?

 

[niall1980]

Can anyone name me defenders that aren’t in the county set up or haven’t already been tried that should be there? I’m happy enough for McGeeney to get another year, a new man would face the exact same problems and unless he’s able to magic a new full back line out of thin air then I don’t see what can be done

You clearly don’t know how this works. All you do is say there are better defenders. You don’t actually have to say who they are

 

[ragingbull]

In the 3 league games Armagh conceded 55 points (goals and points combined)
Taking all eight teams
Kerry 47
Tyrone 48
Armagh 55
Dublin 55
Monaghan 56
Donegal 58
Roscommon 68
Galway 71

Average concede over the three games is 18.3pts per game for Armagh

14 points conceded against Antrim
Then the anomaly against monaghan

Monaghan conceded 14 playing Fermanagh and then the anamoly against Armagh

We scored 27pts in both ulster games as well

If memory serves me right we played Donegal and lost an entire full back line within 20mins or so.

So this defensive issue is perhaps not as big an issue as its made out to be. By the same token have Dublin a defensive issue?

Dublin were up against better teams to be fair