Mayo v Armagh
- Thread starter Rufus T Firefly
- Start date
Armagh_paul
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen anyone giving him abuse. If a player isn't performing in a certain position then it should be discussed, it is afterall the point of the forum.
There's a flip side to that perspective, though. Mayo have been very ordinary in the qualifiers in recent years. So much so that it's dangerous to read too much into our performance in Castlebar.
2018 - beaten a Kildare side who look to be going nowhere.
2017 - taken to extra time by Derry and Cork sides on their road to Division Four and Division Three respectively.
I'm sure these counties all took heart from their displays against Mayo, but I wouldn't be counting on any of them pulling up any trees in the near future.
Neither of those are from this year
He came on against Clare. That was after the U20s were out tho
You really love the word exceptional don’t you
Yeah. Normally I would have given him the benefit of the doubt. Harder to do so after what happened against Cavan. I only saw it on sat night and it was hard to tell. Didn’t look good
MrMaguire2002
Well-Known Member
sweetleftfoot
Member
Agree with some of your points. Duffy is an out and out full forward though and would not suit half back. Wins every ball kicked into him.
The final result was expected but the manner of it not. I thought we could go toe to toe for a while but they would pull away and win with a bit to spare. The way we came back at them and could have nicked it is very good for the future.
There were lots of positives. Jemar Hall, Paul Hughes, Brendan Donaghy, Soupy, Jamie, they all played really well. Others played in bursts and contributed. We have the nucleus of an excellent team and they played above expectations.
The is a downside though and I think yesterday for all it’s positives was as clear an example of how far we are actually away from the top table as it was showing how close we are.
Defensively we tackled well but still gave away too many scoreable frees. Also indiscipline saw frees brought forward or frees for pulling off the ball closer to the goals. Also we need a keeper. I’m sorry but he is simply not good enough. Harsh as that may seem he does not inspire confidence and his kick outs are too scratchy. If there is nothing better in the county then something needs to change. I think it was very telling that the management asked at least one out field player to become a keeper, allegedly causing him to leave the panel.
Also we are 2 defenders short of a top tier team. James Morgan for all his faults is one of them and was coming into a bit of form when he got injured. He has been wrecked with injury and how he recovers will be interesting. An obvious loss for us in the club but you suck it up and get on. There needs to be at least 1 more defender out there. What is very telling is that if you take the Cross players out of the team there is only 1 player from the other recent county champions playing consistently from the start inAidan Forker. Genuinely I find this baffling. Cullyhanna too are the bridesmaids wfor the last number of years and they only have 1 player. I would hazard a guess that there are proven winners of these teams who are the equal to or better than what is there already but also know how to win big games.
In midfield Burns has had the year of a senior debutant, flashes of brilliance, periods of anonymity and a lot of inexperienced play. He has the potential to be an excellent midfielder but I fear that people have Jack O’Se’d him before he is even close to it. He has a great engine, great hands on him when he has the opportunity to catch it but can be a bit clueless sometimes and plays like he is still playing underage in that he puts the head down and runs into traffic a lot. A lot of blind alley running. Also physically he was bullied on Saturday. He was pulled into a few physical tussles and wasn’t fit for it. Looking to the ref too much. You need to win those fights yourself. Experience will hopefully bring that into his game but its a harsh lesson that you learn from quickly or get out of the heat. Grimley is a decent midfielder who can chip in with some good scores and works hard. I think he too can be caught with his decision making, the last free and shot being a prime example. People are saying the management should have had more input but lets face it the players need to take responsibility on the field and the shot for nothing was wrong. A if Oisin Mc and an experienced Ben Crealy add significantly to this area.
In the forwards Hall, Soupy, Nugent, have been solid all year. This has been the best I have seen Jamie in a long time, pity from a selfish point of view he is going to London but that’s his call. Grugan had a curates egg of a year. He played reasonably well at the weekend but I thought he has been very poor all year up to this. I genuinely do not think that the captaincy sits well with him and I think it saved his position on the team a few times. Like Burns Rian had the year of a debutant but he has the potential to be what he wants to be. To score 3-21 at 20 years of age in your debut year is exceptional but his decision making was questionable, particularly shot selection. That will come. What did impress me was his general coolness under pressure and his discipline in general. He has a temper and he held it. He could be the Micheal Murphy of this team and when his brother is fully fit I think that will release him. They both work really well off each other. He really has the potential to be the best. Put him in Dublin and he is young player of the year this year and championship top scorer. What needs to happen now is that the likes of Duffy, McQuillan, young Turbitt from CE and a few others need to be blooded consistently.
In terms of the management, they have had 5 years. From what I have heard another 2 years is there for Geezer to accept or reject. McCorry has made a difference but I would freshen up the rest of the management structure. Change can refresh and reinvigorate. I genuinely believe that there needs to someone from our club on the sideline, may seem as arrogance or bias but there is too much talent coaching within our club that would add greatly to the Armagh set up but is not being utilized. I think at key times at the weekend and over the championship as a whole mistakes have been made on the line. Hard decisions need to be made at times and I think they were not done fast enough or at all. Egos need to be left at the door when the team walks in and I include the managements in that. I do think sometimes that there is still a wee bit of ‘coffee in Grounded in our training gear’ about this group and that there is a lack of steel about some of it. A few hard homes truths at training would change that.
The reality is that we beat a poor Down team, lost to a Cavan team who were beaten with ease by Donegal, beat a Monaghan team on its last legs with a few key men not playing and beaten by a Mayo team struggling with injuries, form and who are notoriously brittle in the Qualifiers. We struggled in Division 2 and could easily have gone down. We are improving but its a long road to be at the levels that the effort and expense that are being expended warrant. The CB will give the manager another run at it, financially he is doing a serious amount of work for them so they cannot let him go but at least the results at least warrant another go at it. Honestly, if an Ulster Final wasn’t at least made and a serious run at winning Division 2 this season then I would have to question should the whole management team stay on. Give them the change to do that. If they don’t then I think its time for change.
There were lots of positives. Jemar Hall, Paul Hughes, Brendan Donaghy, Soupy, Jamie, they all played really well. Others played in bursts and contributed. We have the nucleus of an excellent team and they played above expectations.
The is a downside though and I think yesterday for all it’s positives was as clear an example of how far we are actually away from the top table as it was showing how close we are.
Defensively we tackled well but still gave away too many scoreable frees. Also indiscipline saw frees brought forward or frees for pulling off the ball closer to the goals. Also we need a keeper. I’m sorry but he is simply not good enough. Harsh as that may seem he does not inspire confidence and his kick outs are too scratchy. If there is nothing better in the county then something needs to change. I think it was very telling that the management asked at least one out field player to become a keeper, allegedly causing him to leave the panel.
Also we are 2 defenders short of a top tier team. James Morgan for all his faults is one of them and was coming into a bit of form when he got injured. He has been wrecked with injury and how he recovers will be interesting. An obvious loss for us in the club but you suck it up and get on. There needs to be at least 1 more defender out there. What is very telling is that if you take the Cross players out of the team there is only 1 player from the other recent county champions playing consistently from the start inAidan Forker. Genuinely I find this baffling. Cullyhanna too are the bridesmaids wfor the last number of years and they only have 1 player. I would hazard a guess that there are proven winners of these teams who are the equal to or better than what is there already but also know how to win big games.
In midfield Burns has had the year of a senior debutant, flashes of brilliance, periods of anonymity and a lot of inexperienced play. He has the potential to be an excellent midfielder but I fear that people have Jack O’Se’d him before he is even close to it. He has a great engine, great hands on him when he has the opportunity to catch it but can be a bit clueless sometimes and plays like he is still playing underage in that he puts the head down and runs into traffic a lot. A lot of blind alley running. Also physically he was bullied on Saturday. He was pulled into a few physical tussles and wasn’t fit for it. Looking to the ref too much. You need to win those fights yourself. Experience will hopefully bring that into his game but its a harsh lesson that you learn from quickly or get out of the heat. Grimley is a decent midfielder who can chip in with some good scores and works hard. I think he too can be caught with his decision making, the last free and shot being a prime example. People are saying the management should have had more input but lets face it the players need to take responsibility on the field and the shot for nothing was wrong. A if Oisin Mc and an experienced Ben Crealy add significantly to this area.
In the forwards Hall, Soupy, Nugent, have been solid all year. This has been the best I have seen Jamie in a long time, pity from a selfish point of view he is going to London but that’s his call. Grugan had a curates egg of a year. He played reasonably well at the weekend but I thought he has been very poor all year up to this. I genuinely do not think that the captaincy sits well with him and I think it saved his position on the team a few times. Like Burns Rian had the year of a debutant but he has the potential to be what he wants to be. To score 3-21 at 20 years of age in your debut year is exceptional but his decision making was questionable, particularly shot selection. That will come. What did impress me was his general coolness under pressure and his discipline in general. He has a temper and he held it. He could be the Micheal Murphy of this team and when his brother is fully fit I think that will release him. They both work really well off each other. He really has the potential to be the best. Put him in Dublin and he is young player of the year this year and championship top scorer. What needs to happen now is that the likes of Duffy, McQuillan, young Turbitt from CE and a few others need to be blooded consistently.
In terms of the management, they have had 5 years. From what I have heard another 2 years is there for Geezer to accept or reject. McCorry has made a difference but I would freshen up the rest of the management structure. Change can refresh and reinvigorate. I genuinely believe that there needs to someone from our club on the sideline, may seem as arrogance or bias but there is too much talent coaching within our club that would add greatly to the Armagh set up but is not being utilized. I think at key times at the weekend and over the championship as a whole mistakes have been made on the line. Hard decisions need to be made at times and I think they were not done fast enough or at all. Egos need to be left at the door when the team walks in and I include the managements in that. I do think sometimes that there is still a wee bit of ‘coffee in Grounded in our training gear’ about this group and that there is a lack of steel about some of it. A few hard homes truths at training would change that.
The reality is that we beat a poor Down team, lost to a Cavan team who were beaten with ease by Donegal, beat a Monaghan team on its last legs with a few key men not playing and beaten by a Mayo team struggling with injuries, form and who are notoriously brittle in the Qualifiers. We struggled in Division 2 and could easily have gone down. We are improving but its a long road to be at the levels that the effort and expense that are being expended warrant. The CB will give the manager another run at it, financially he is doing a serious amount of work for them so they cannot let him go but at least the results at least warrant another go at it. Honestly, if an Ulster Final wasn’t at least made and a serious run at winning Division 2 this season then I would have to question should the whole management team stay on. Give them the change to do that. If they don’t then I think its time for change.
Now the dust has settled and everyone got the alcohol out of the system..
I thought the lads done well on Saturday missed 2 goal chances near the end and a few rash shot selection.. geezer is the man for the job players love him and the brand of football this year has been very good to watch.. why would you remove someone to start again maybe with a different style.. imo taking a step back
With regards to Oisin O’Neill and Ross mcqullian does anyone think maybe ain’t good enough to start in the 15 atm? County football is a lot different from club football if you look at the bench all the players have been brilliant for their clubs! For example Grugan was sub for 2 games this season that is a massive call and is cracking player. Like I said previous time next year could be the year for them boys..!
I don’t think Armagh r far away probably a top 10/12 in Ireland is the reality potential in the team is really good..
A lot of negative talk about geezer..has it been a good year I believe so.. key for this team is to get into division 1 next season so the team can improve by playing Mayo and Dublin all the time and bring the players on..
First time in a while going to the games enjoying the football and with a actual chance of winning the game
Roll on next season!
I thought the lads done well on Saturday missed 2 goal chances near the end and a few rash shot selection.. geezer is the man for the job players love him and the brand of football this year has been very good to watch.. why would you remove someone to start again maybe with a different style.. imo taking a step back
With regards to Oisin O’Neill and Ross mcqullian does anyone think maybe ain’t good enough to start in the 15 atm? County football is a lot different from club football if you look at the bench all the players have been brilliant for their clubs! For example Grugan was sub for 2 games this season that is a massive call and is cracking player. Like I said previous time next year could be the year for them boys..!
I don’t think Armagh r far away probably a top 10/12 in Ireland is the reality potential in the team is really good..
A lot of negative talk about geezer..has it been a good year I believe so.. key for this team is to get into division 1 next season so the team can improve by playing Mayo and Dublin all the time and bring the players on..
First time in a while going to the games enjoying the football and with a actual chance of winning the game
Roll on next season!
sweetleftfoot
Member
Thought the same but if you see him play its not an issue for him. Also the lad is the guts of 6 foot. Not that small.
PatMustard
Well-Known Member
Sure we won the O’Fiaich Cup and a Div 3 title!
Rufus T Firefly
Well-Known Member
I’m going to apologise in advance for the length of this post, but as some genius once said, I didn’t have to time to write a short post.
All defeats that close out the season tend to be particularly disappointing for one reason or another, and Saturday evening was no exception. For me, and as has been mentioned by many others, there is a real feeling of a match left behind – a great opportunity thrown away. That was most definitely the case at the weekend.
There are a number of reasons why we did not progress past Mayo, but the one that stands out for me is that we are not clinical enough, and unfortunately it is an underlying issue affecting us and which invariably is fatal when the opposition is decent. We had a significant wides tally – was it 12 / 13 – and missed two nailed on goal chances. That has been a hallmark of our play throughout the year. As far back as the league game in Navan we did something similar and as recently as the Cavan replay we spurned four great opportunities. You could also argue about that wee bit of luck. One of the goal chances came back off the post and into a waiting pair of Mayo hands. Mayo did not have one wide in the second half – how many times have Mayo managed such a feat in the last thirty years? I hate to mention referees but I got the sense that we had to work much harder for our frees than they did – I recall McLoughlin going to ground very easily late on in the game and getting a free in from which a point came.
The Sunday Game highlighted the issue around time-keeping. That simply highlighted for me what I saw on Saturday – that Mayo were much cuter than us, winning frees and managing the clock. That is not a criticism of them but simply regret that we cannot do something similar when in a similar position. That cuteness though comes from big match experience and I feel that that is one example of why we need to be playing at a consistently higher level.
I think the team has benefitted from playing at a higher level in Division 2 and I got the sense that they were getting better with each passing game in the Championship. That was why I was so desperate to see them make the Super 8s and accumulate that priceless experience. It also underlines how important it is to try and push for promotion to Division One in 2020.
It was not to be Super 8s unfortunately and there will now be plenty of regrets. For me, despite the loss, there were many positives to take from the game. It was a very good team performance filled with pride, commitment and some lovely football. Jamie, Jemar Hall, Soupy, Paddy Burns and Aidan Forker were excellent, with the ageless Brendan Donaghy just pipping the excellent Paul Hughes for our man of the match, IMHO. As Oisin McConville likes to say, the players dies with their boots on and I felt great pride in the efforts of the players and management despite the defeat.
There is also a sense that there is a lot to build on. Jemar Hall has established himself as an important team player; Aidy Nugent has been introduced as has Rian O’Neill and Jarlath Og, all to excellent effect. I also got a sense of a great togetherness and camaraderie amongst the players, which is also crucial to maximising our potential.
This is now where the future of management becomes important. The sense I get is that there is a lot of loyalty to Geezer and he has generated the buy in and commitment from a lot of the players. My sense is that Geezer remaining would be important in that respect – continuity and buy in from the squad.
If I’m honest, I think there is no doubt that if an outside manager had had Geezer’s record, then he would be gone by now. Geezer’s standing in the County has stood to him that regard. He is a legend in our County who was so important to our greatest ever day. That of course should not be a factor in where we go from here, but for the reasons already outlined, I would like to see him stay on. Indeed, I’d be surprised if he does not.
Finally, can I say what an enjoyable trip it was down to Mayo – another County ground ticked off the list. The Mayo fans were tremendous and a credit to their County and is one of the reasons why I would love Mayo to win the All Ireland, although I cannot see it this year. The new stand too at McHale Park is huge – much bigger than it appears on the TV – and it generates a great atmosphere.
Anyway, another season over and an enjoyable one at that. My thanks to the players and management. As Armagh fans we can look forward with optimism to next season! We don’t get to say that every year!!
All defeats that close out the season tend to be particularly disappointing for one reason or another, and Saturday evening was no exception. For me, and as has been mentioned by many others, there is a real feeling of a match left behind – a great opportunity thrown away. That was most definitely the case at the weekend.
There are a number of reasons why we did not progress past Mayo, but the one that stands out for me is that we are not clinical enough, and unfortunately it is an underlying issue affecting us and which invariably is fatal when the opposition is decent. We had a significant wides tally – was it 12 / 13 – and missed two nailed on goal chances. That has been a hallmark of our play throughout the year. As far back as the league game in Navan we did something similar and as recently as the Cavan replay we spurned four great opportunities. You could also argue about that wee bit of luck. One of the goal chances came back off the post and into a waiting pair of Mayo hands. Mayo did not have one wide in the second half – how many times have Mayo managed such a feat in the last thirty years? I hate to mention referees but I got the sense that we had to work much harder for our frees than they did – I recall McLoughlin going to ground very easily late on in the game and getting a free in from which a point came.
The Sunday Game highlighted the issue around time-keeping. That simply highlighted for me what I saw on Saturday – that Mayo were much cuter than us, winning frees and managing the clock. That is not a criticism of them but simply regret that we cannot do something similar when in a similar position. That cuteness though comes from big match experience and I feel that that is one example of why we need to be playing at a consistently higher level.
I think the team has benefitted from playing at a higher level in Division 2 and I got the sense that they were getting better with each passing game in the Championship. That was why I was so desperate to see them make the Super 8s and accumulate that priceless experience. It also underlines how important it is to try and push for promotion to Division One in 2020.
It was not to be Super 8s unfortunately and there will now be plenty of regrets. For me, despite the loss, there were many positives to take from the game. It was a very good team performance filled with pride, commitment and some lovely football. Jamie, Jemar Hall, Soupy, Paddy Burns and Aidan Forker were excellent, with the ageless Brendan Donaghy just pipping the excellent Paul Hughes for our man of the match, IMHO. As Oisin McConville likes to say, the players dies with their boots on and I felt great pride in the efforts of the players and management despite the defeat.
There is also a sense that there is a lot to build on. Jemar Hall has established himself as an important team player; Aidy Nugent has been introduced as has Rian O’Neill and Jarlath Og, all to excellent effect. I also got a sense of a great togetherness and camaraderie amongst the players, which is also crucial to maximising our potential.
This is now where the future of management becomes important. The sense I get is that there is a lot of loyalty to Geezer and he has generated the buy in and commitment from a lot of the players. My sense is that Geezer remaining would be important in that respect – continuity and buy in from the squad.
If I’m honest, I think there is no doubt that if an outside manager had had Geezer’s record, then he would be gone by now. Geezer’s standing in the County has stood to him that regard. He is a legend in our County who was so important to our greatest ever day. That of course should not be a factor in where we go from here, but for the reasons already outlined, I would like to see him stay on. Indeed, I’d be surprised if he does not.
Finally, can I say what an enjoyable trip it was down to Mayo – another County ground ticked off the list. The Mayo fans were tremendous and a credit to their County and is one of the reasons why I would love Mayo to win the All Ireland, although I cannot see it this year. The new stand too at McHale Park is huge – much bigger than it appears on the TV – and it generates a great atmosphere.
Anyway, another season over and an enjoyable one at that. My thanks to the players and management. As Armagh fans we can look forward with optimism to next season! We don’t get to say that every year!!
Have you been to a game this season? Jesus i know a game is about opinions but come on i think this is a wind up.
No Ryan Kennedy Donaghy Forker, Shields Grimley and Andy M. You want to play 2 forwards in half back while half back we have been so strong. I know your messing and looking people to bite and you have got me.
I am glad i waited until today to start reading these posts. Jesus
He certainly doesn’t look it
Great post as usual @Rufus T Firefly and @bcb1
How long is Morgan out for? He doesn’t seem to get short term injuries
How long is Morgan out for? He doesn’t seem to get short term injuries
sweetleftfoot
Member
Thought the same until I met him in a shop one day..
He definitely is in the region of 6ft. He is very lean and as a result he looks a lot smaller but he is wiry strong and can hold his own at senior level. He is also one of those who has the ability to really push on to the next level. Like his cousins he has it both sides as his mother is from great Monaghan stock as well as his father's obvious ability.