Mayo v Armagh

B

Bert

Active Member
bcb1 said:
The final result was expected but the manner of it not. I thought we could go toe to toe for a while but they would pull away and win with a bit to spare. The way we came back at them and could have nicked it is very good for the future.

There were lots of positives. Jemar Hall, Paul Hughes, Brendan Donaghy, Soupy, Jamie, they all played really well. Others played in bursts and contributed. We have the nucleus of an excellent team and they played above expectations.

The is a downside though and I think yesterday for all it’s positives was as clear an example of how far we are actually away from the top table as it was showing how close we are.

Defensively we tackled well but still gave away too many scoreable frees. Also indiscipline saw frees brought forward or frees for pulling off the ball closer to the goals. Also we need a keeper. I’m sorry but he is simply not good enough. Harsh as that may seem he does not inspire confidence and his kick outs are too scratchy. If there is nothing better in the county then something needs to change. I think it was very telling that the management asked at least one out field player to become a keeper, allegedly causing him to leave the panel.

Also we are 2 defenders short of a top tier team. James Morgan for all his faults is one of them and was coming into a bit of form when he got injured. He has been wrecked with injury and how he recovers will be interesting. An obvious loss for us in the club but you suck it up and get on. There needs to be at least 1 more defender out there. What is very telling is that if you take the Cross players out of the team there is only 1 player from the other recent county champions playing consistently from the start inAidan Forker. Genuinely I find this baffling. Cullyhanna too are the bridesmaids wfor the last number of years and they only have 1 player. I would hazard a guess that there are proven winners of these teams who are the equal to or better than what is there already but also know how to win big games.

In midfield Burns has had the year of a senior debutant, flashes of brilliance, periods of anonymity and a lot of inexperienced play. He has the potential to be an excellent midfielder but I fear that people have Jack O’Se’d him before he is even close to it. He has a great engine, great hands on him when he has the opportunity to catch it but can be a bit clueless sometimes and plays like he is still playing underage in that he puts the head down and runs into traffic a lot. A lot of blind alley running. Also physically he was bullied on Saturday. He was pulled into a few physical tussles and wasn’t fit for it. Looking to the ref too much. You need to win those fights yourself. Experience will hopefully bring that into his game but its a harsh lesson that you learn from quickly or get out of the heat. Grimley is a decent midfielder who can chip in with some good scores and works hard. I think he too can be caught with his decision making, the last free and shot being a prime example. People are saying the management should have had more input but lets face it the players need to take responsibility on the field and the shot for nothing was wrong. A if Oisin Mc and an experienced Ben Crealy add significantly to this area.

In the forwards Hall, Soupy, Nugent, have been solid all year. This has been the best I have seen Jamie in a long time, pity from a selfish point of view he is going to London but that’s his call. Grugan had a curates egg of a year. He played reasonably well at the weekend but I thought he has been very poor all year up to this. I genuinely do not think that the captaincy sits well with him and I think it saved his position on the team a few times. Like Burns Rian had the year of a debutant but he has the potential to be what he wants to be. To score 3-21 at 20 years of age in your debut year is exceptional but his decision making was questionable, particularly shot selection. That will come. What did impress me was his general coolness under pressure and his discipline in general. He has a temper and he held it. He could be the Micheal Murphy of this team and when his brother is fully fit I think that will release him. They both work really well off each other. He really has the potential to be the best. Put him in Dublin and he is young player of the year this year and championship top scorer. What needs to happen now is that the likes of Duffy, McQuillan, young Turbitt from CE and a few others need to be blooded consistently.

In terms of the management, they have had 5 years. From what I have heard another 2 years is there for Geezer to accept or reject. McCorry has made a difference but I would freshen up the rest of the management structure. Change can refresh and reinvigorate. I genuinely believe that there needs to someone from our club on the sideline, may seem as arrogance or bias but there is too much talent coaching within our club that would add greatly to the Armagh set up but is not being utilized. I think at key times at the weekend and over the championship as a whole mistakes have been made on the line. Hard decisions need to be made at times and I think they were not done fast enough or at all. Egos need to be left at the door when the team walks in and I include the managements in that. I do think sometimes that there is still a wee bit of ‘coffee in Grounded in our training gear’ about this group and that there is a lack of steel about some of it. A few hard homes truths at training would change that.

The reality is that we beat a poor Down team, lost to a Cavan team who were beaten with ease by Donegal, beat a Monaghan team on its last legs with a few key men not playing and beaten by a Mayo team struggling with injuries, form and who are notoriously brittle in the Qualifiers. We struggled in Division 2 and could easily have gone down. We are improving but its a long road to be at the levels that the effort and expense that are being expended warrant. The CB will give the manager another run at it, financially he is doing a serious amount of work for them so they cannot let him go but at least the results at least warrant another go at it. Honestly, if an Ulster Final wasn’t at least made and a serious run at winning Division 2 this season then I would have to question should the whole management team stay on. Give them the change to do that. If they don’t then I think its time for change.
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All valid points. Regarding management, who from cross do you think would work alongside McGeeney if approached? Personally, I'd love to see mcconville or one of the mcentees. Any others you could recommend?
 
pablo

pablo

Well-Known Member
Rufus T Firefly said:
This is now where the future of management becomes important. The sense I get is that there is a lot of loyalty to Geezer and he has generated the buy in and commitment from a lot of the players. My sense is that Geezer remaining would be important in that respect – continuity and buy in from the squad.
If I’m honest, I think there is no doubt that if an outside manager had had Geezer’s record, then he would be gone by now. Geezer’s standing in the County has stood to him that regard. He is a legend in our County who was so important to our greatest ever day. That of course should not be a factor in where we go from here, but for the reasons already outlined, I would like to see him stay on. Indeed, I’d be surprised if he does not.
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Kieran apparently takes a very 'holistic' approach that players really buy into. On an individual basis, he works with players-their attitude and how they can improve their game to get the best from themselves. He generated a lot of loyalty from the Kildare players and has put together a keen motivated squad brimming with potential. I have no doubt that Geezer wants the best for Armagh football and is committed to do what work he can (a lot done behind the scenes) to ensure we can consistently produce players capable of competing at the highest level. What I am not convinced about are the structures for that to happen. As talented as some of our players are, the level of coaching evident at times does not inspire confidence. I hope Geezer remains-but there needs some serious look at the backroom in terms of coaching and tactical development. Some of the mistakes made by our guys have been genuinely not the fault of management, but often too we harp on this forum about recurring issues such as indiscipline (which cost us again on Saturday) tackling and decision making. My fear is that current backroom and coaching are probably tied into an invested structure by the county board and not likely to undergo significant changes, but it is this area that really needs some revision and soul searching if we are to go to the next level
 
Diarmi

Diarmi

Well-Known Member
I'm not a manager basher but I think a new face could freshen things up and bring this group a bit further.
 
Armagh_paul

Armagh_paul

Well-Known Member
pablo said:
Kieran apparently takes a very 'holistic' approach that players really buy into. On an individual basis, he works with players-their attitude and how they can improve their game to get the best from themselves. He generated a lot of loyalty from the Kildare players and has put together a keen motivated squad brimming with potential. I have no doubt that Geezer wants the best for Armagh football and is committed to do what work he can (a lot done behind the scenes) to ensure we can consistently produce players capable of competing at the highest level. What I am not convinced about are the structures for that to happen. As talented as some of our players are, the level of coaching evident at times does not inspire confidence. I hope Geezer remains-but there needs some serious look at the backroom in terms of coaching and tactical development. Some of the mistakes made by our guys have been genuinely not the fault of management, but often too we harp on this forum about recurring issues such as indiscipline (which cost us again on Saturday) tackling and decision making. My fear is that current backroom and coaching are probably tied into an invested structure by the county board and not likely to undergo significant changes, but it is this area that really needs some revision and soul searching if we are to go to the next level
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Just to add to that. The management have done a fantastic job with the attacking aspect of our game and they need to continue that as it is by no means the end product. Along with that start developing our defensive game and shut players down before they score.

I didn't like seeing management telling the players what to do at the end of the game (if that was the case). They need to make their own decisions. If it goes wrong they have someone else to blame, if they get it wrong they will learn from it.

There will be a lot of chances in that game that will haunt (use the term loosely) the players and there isn't just one person to blame. Games are won and lost on small margins and no doubt it will happen again.
 
PatMustard

PatMustard

Well-Known Member
Bert said:
All valid points. Regarding management, who from cross do you think would work alongside McGeeney if approached? Personally, I'd love to see mcconville or one of the mcentees. Any others you could recommend?
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Oisin wouldn’t leave his cushy BBC role ;)

He is a very good pundit though.
 
Rufus T Firefly

Rufus T Firefly

Well-Known Member
portadownarmaghfan said:
Generally I'm not a fan of long posts as I firmly believe that points can be made clearly in no more than a few lines. However, for quality and informed analysis, these are definitely both Division 1 standard.
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I think the secret is numerous, small paragraphs! ;)

Thank you for the kind words, though.

There's nothing beats the 'on-line' company of fellow Armagh fans to share the pain when things are at a low ebb!
 
B

bcb1

Well-Known Member
Jesus myself and @Rufus T Firefly are being made out to be some sort of gurus....or is it that we’re are old and busted?:p To be honest as we are of a similar run we have seen the lows and highs and also we both have played a bit so we know what the craic generally is.

PatMustard said:
You’re right. Because my Mrs certainly won’t listen! :D
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Mine does listen Pat but the problem is she’s from Tyrone....I have to listen to her too:D
 
PatMustard

PatMustard

Well-Known Member
bcb1 said:
Jesus myself and @Rufus T Firefly are being made out to be some sort of gurus....or is it that we’re are old and busted?:p To be honest as we are of a similar run we have seen the lows and highs and also we both have played a bit so we know what the craic generally is.
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Are you putting yourselves in the same league as Jesus now? Youse have high opinions of yourselves! :D

Mine does listen Pat but the problem is she’s from Tyrone....I have to listen to her too:D
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Oh Christ, I feel for you :D
 
JoeH

JoeH

Well-Known Member
There is that old story about the game being about inches
Certainly this year Armagh have personified that story

The goal conceded in the Clare game which wasn't over the line
The goal that was missed v Cavan when it hit the side netting
McLouglins too many steps
Two goal chances spurned

Key injuries to players such as Oisin ONeill, Ethan, Murnin, Kennedy, Sheridan, Morgan, mcquillan and probably others hampered the team

There has been a huge performance enhancement this year and with the above named players fit for next year plus players like Jason Duffy, Conor O'Neill, Conor Turbitt and probably others there is a fantastic group of players available to push on

It's vital now to be competing for promotion to division 1 next year so as to learn more

Some of Armaghs play this year has been fantastic right up there with the best
If someone had said at the start of the year
- we'd run the division one league winners to a point and SHOULD have won in their backyard
- should have been promoted
- would beat Monaghan in their backyard
- should have been in the Ulster final after a drawn Ulster semifinal
we'd have thought we were losing it
- new players introduced

The level of expectation is now raised very high

A lot of talk on management.
For my tuppence worth I think any manager should be allowed to have on board whomever they choose. It is quite obvious a huge amount has been done to get the team playing the way they are and to introduce new players in as well is a huge plus

We have an honest team playing for themselves and their manager - that is a huge gain
When you work hard enough eventually the breaks come.
Its a pity it's six months until they are out again but the future is very bright and that hasn't happened by chance
 
Big Jim

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
niall1980 said:
Not this year. A couple of the fermanagh seniors played in their win over Donegal at the weekend there
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Niall the rule was clarified and amended this year.
IF a player declares for U20 then he can't play for seniors until the U20s are out of that championship and as long as the senior team are still playing, then they may join them.
IF a player declares for his senior team, then he cannot play for the U20s until the seniors exit the championship and assuming that the U20s are still playing at that stage, as was the case for Fermanagh this year.

If Armagh had have won on Saturday evening, then all the U20s would have been available to join and play if needed because they wee beaten on Friday evening..
 
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