Is it time for Kieran McGeeney to go?

Absolutely

where is the progression in 6 years - yes we have returned to Div 1 football more by luck than by management skill

We can’t tackle
When is the last time you seen a player line someone up and shoulder him and win the ball

why do we just shadow players and then let them run past us if you saw an U14 do it you would give off to them.

Defeat and the forum goes mad !

Before I start. McParland quit the panel, not sure about McVerry and I thought Rafferty did okay when he came on. Even if the commentator called him McKenna.

Armagh County problems run deeper than the players on the county panel. Watching club football there is a lot of rubbish played. Too many clubs are more concerned with winning matches at underage instead of developing players. By the time these players reach senior they are full of bad habits. Then we have referees letting things go so when players play inter county they are penalised for things that are okay at club.

Armagh lost a lot of players after 2014. McGeeney started with a team in Division 3 and a pile of new players to find. It shows how desperate things are getting when people are suggesting Findon should be back on the team. Maybe if he got fitter we could pair him with James Lavery!

Things have improved since McGeeney first took charge but we need to find young physical and speedy players. Are there any out there?

Dont get me wrong I feel management have made plenty of mistakes. I still think they did enough this year to get another though.

Throw ball you are absolutely right we have underage teams entering divisions they should never be in just to win, no development of players but then again we have a mid board that lets them away with it.

We are light years away from winning an ulster title never mind an AI we have no structure in our underage set up. We have development squads that as the name suggests should be about development but it’s not it’s all about jobs for the boys and we have a coaching officer who couldn’t coach a bag of chips

Throwball said:

Defeat and the forum goes mad !

Before I start. McParland quit the panel, not sure about McVerry and I thought Rafferty did okay when he came on. Even if the commentator called him McKenna.

Armagh County problems run deeper than the players on the county panel. Watching club football there is a lot of rubbish played. Too many clubs are more concerned with winning matches at underage instead of developing players. By the time these players reach senior they are full of bad habits. Then we have referees letting things go so when players play inter county they are penalised for things that are okay at club.

Armagh lost a lot of players after 2014. McGeeney started with a team in Division 3 and a pile of new players to find. It shows how desperate things are getting when people are suggesting Findon should be back on the team. Maybe if he got fitter we could pair him with James Lavery!

Things have improved since McGeeney first took charge but we need to find young physical and speedy players. Are there any out there?

Dont get me wrong I feel management have made plenty of mistakes. I still think they did enough this year to get another though.

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Can take defeat but it wasn't just a defeat it was an absolute annihilation and worse than the one we received in 2015.

I have to disagree we haven't improved since 2015. Does a 2 point win against Derry count as an improvement? As I have already stated, my thoughts on the league - it means nothing to be honest. It is the next competition up from the McKenna cup. In the league we had glaring problems that were not fixed and we had the same problems in the championship and what we thought we did have (an attack) was strangled to death and caused no damage whatsoever.

I'm sorry but people need to take their heads out of the clouds, it has been 6 years and we have beaten teams we should have beaten regardless of who is in charge.

I don't want to sound negative but after today I am a bit fed up with it. What we have has not worked for us and to say it has is not right. Why is next year going to work when the last SIX haven't? I can guarantee next year we are going to be on here having the same argument but we will more than likely be in division 2 and not getting very far in the championship.

We wanted pure football and when it came to pure football Donegal schooled us in it. We know we don't have a defence and now we know we have no attack either.

Armagh_paul said:

Can take defeat but it wasn't just a defeat it was an absolute annihilation and worse than the one we received in 2015.

I have to disagree we haven't improved since 2015. Does a 2 point win against Derry count as an improvement? As I have already stated, my thoughts on the league - it means nothing to be honest. It is the next competition up from the McKenna cup. In the league we had glaring problems that were not fixed and we had the same problems in the championship and what we thought we did have (an attack) was strangled to death and caused no damage whatsoever.

I'm sorry but people need to take their heads out of the clouds, it has been 6 years and we have beaten teams we should have beaten regardless of who is in charge.

I don't want to sound negative but after today I am a bit fed up with it. What we have has not worked for us and to say it has is not right. Why is next year going to work when the last SIX haven't? I can guarantee next year we are going to be on here having the same argument but we will more than likely be in division 2 and not getting very far in the championship.

We wanted pure football and when it came to pure football Donegal schooled us in it. We know we don't have a defence and now we know we have no attack either.

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Yes it’s really disappointing. Disappointing that we just didn’t show up, and do ourselves justice. But you know what, at the end of the day, it’s only football.

We’ve had 4 matches we never thought we’d get to see this year. 4 matches that some of us might have really needed to distract us, and help us through this sh1te. So let’s keep things in perspective here.

I applaud the players and management for their efforts during the year, especially in recent weeks.

Roll on 2021 (is that the time already?)

PatMustard said:

Yes it’s really disappointing. Disappointing that we just didn’t show up, and do ourselves justice. But you know what, at the end of the day, it’s only football.

We’ve had 4 matches we never thought we’d get to see this year. 4 matches that some of us might have really needed to distract us, and help us through this sh1te. So let’s keep things in perspective here.

I applaud the players and management for their efforts during the year, especially in recent weeks.

Roll on 2021 (is that the time already?)

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At the start of the year who would have thought we would still be in the championship in November?

I'll just repeat what I said on the other thread, I think Kieran has taken this team as far as he can.

I have no personal axe to grind and I have no doubt that Kieran has the county's best interest at heart. But I just don't think he is good enough to bring Armagh to the next level. It actually pains me to say it as I would love nothing more that to sit hear and say that I believe Kiernan McGeeney is a top intercounty manager and that he is the best man for the job, but I simply can't. There is ablsolutely no evidence to support that opinion. Unless you've closed your mind to alternatives there is no way any rationale person could say that Kieran McGeeney is the best man that Armagh could have in the manager's role.

I do accept that there is an arguement that says that having won promotion he deserves the chance to manage them in division 1. But this argument only holds up if a) you think they will be relegated regardless or b) you think they'll stay up regardless. The former would be a very pesimistic outlook and surely you would want a manager that gives us a chance of staying up, while the latter is, based on today, rather optomistic.

Ideally I'd like Kieran to step down. While his 6 years have been far from perfect, he has taken us back to division 1 and he could stand aside having accomplished that mission. I fear that if he stays on, 2021 will be his 'annus horribilis.'

For both Armagh and McGeeney a parting of the ways would be the sensible outcome.

From a purely football point of view it’s taken 6 years to get to Div 1 2 ulster championship wins in those 6 years Hammerings at the hands of Donegal (twice) Tyrone & Cavan, 1 decent run through the back door. What McGeeney has done is assembled a talented group of players (with some exceptions) albeit with a soft centre with a habit of throwing away leads. Look at Donegal in 2010 we hammered them in the league & the championship that year but when the right manager came along the were AI champs within 2 years! I just think the mix isn’t right and fresh voices with fresh ideas could work for the squad because at the minute it’s not right.

Jamie's Coffee said:

From a purely football point of view it’s taken 6 years to get to Div 1 2 ulster championship wins in those 6 years Hammerings at the hands of Donegal (twice) Tyrone & Cavan, 1 decent run through the back door. What McGeeney has done is assembled a talented group of players (with some exceptions) albeit with a soft centre with a habit of throwing away leads. Look at Donegal in 2010 we hammered them in the league & the championship that year but when the right manager came along the were AI champs within 2 years! I just think the mix isn’t right and fresh voices with fresh ideas could work for the squad because at the minute it’s not right.

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Armagh 2023 All Ireland winners right

ragingbull said:

Armagh 2023 All Ireland winners right

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Aye, maybe in your world. The point is Results and fortunes can change dramatically for a side when the right management is in charge.

I agree that Mc Geeney and the various management/backroom staff have taken this Armagh team as far as they can, but you have to stop and think that this bunch of lads have reached their peak and are not capable of physically or mentally going to the next level no matter who the manager is.
And we are hoping and dreaming of greater things from this team which are never going to happen.

PutTheHighBallInLow said:

I agree that Mc Geeney and the various management/backroom staff have taken this Armagh team as far as they can, but you have to stop and think that this bunch of lads have reached their peak and are not capable of physically or mentally going to the next level no matter who the manager is.
And we are hoping and dreaming of greater things from this team which are never going to happen.

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So we just give up then?
Wise up. Get a new management team, some new blood into the squad, some new ideas etc- and aim to improve.

POINTMAN said:

So we just give up then?
Wise up. Get a new management team, some new blood into the squad, some new ideas etc- and aim to improve.

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No I don't mean give up, I mean this bunch of players need a serious clear out and start to build a team around the younger players

PutTheHighBallInLow said:

No I don't mean give up, I mean this bunch of players need a serious clear out and start to build a team around the younger players

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You hear that about teams that seemingly need change ‘players clear out’. New broom sweeps clean. The reality is that this type of approach actually perpetuates failure in my opinion. There will be a natural attrition of players every year, lads retire, lads have other commitments and some lads get fed up not getting game time. You will always lose 3-4 players. To do a clear out means you are left with a shadow team and a group of inexperienced players who may or may not gel. A better approach is to organically have an evolution as opposed to a speedy revolution, and that includes within the management.

I think that a better way is to have changes in the back room team, identify whatever players can be added, give it a further year (as Geezer is not going anywhere) and see where we are in 12 months. At that stage he will have been with the management for 8 years. The reality is Donegal are streets ahead of everyone in Ulster at the minute. Let’s see how the league goes but the reality is unless a trophy is won or at least challenged for then it will be time for a change.

bcb1 said:

You hear that about teams that seemingly need change ‘players clear out’. New broom sweeps clean. The reality is that this type of approach actually perpetuates failure in my opinion. There will be a natural attrition of players every year, lads retire, lads have other commitments and some lads get fed up not getting game time. You will always lose 3-4 players. To do a clear out means you are left with a shadow team and a group of inexperienced players who may or may not gel. A better approach is to organically have an evolution as opposed to a speedy revolution, and that includes within the management.

I think that a better way is to have changes in the back room team, identify whatever players can be added, give it a further year (as Geezer is not going anywhere) and see where we are in 12 months. At that stage he will have been with the management for 8 years. The reality is Donegal are streets ahead of everyone in Ulster at the minute. Let’s see how the league goes but the reality is unless a trophy is won or at least challenged for then it will be time for a change.

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Not to forget the depth we currently lack in a lot of positions.

I agree with BCB that Kieran isn’t going anywhere and I see that Enda McGinley has just been ratified as the new Antrim manager.

If this week’s media reports are to be believed that Tony McEntee is keen to get involved again in the county scene and if Burren are to be demanding of full attention from McCorry, is there an opportunity here to get Tony on board?

A few if’s, I grant you but I would love to see Tony involved.

Holdthemiddle said:

I agree with BCB that Kieran isn’t going anywhere and I see that Enda McGinley has just been ratified as the new Antrim manager.

If this week’s media reports are to be believed that Tony McEntee is keen to get involved again in the county scene and if Burren are to be demanding of full attention from McCorry, is there an opportunity here to get Tony on board?

A few if’s, I grant you but I would love to see Tony involved.

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I would like to see him involved also. Would be good to have him in with the potential of a handover toi

niall1980 said:

I would like to see him involved also. Would be good to have him in with the potential of a handover toi

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That would be the sort of idea i think is very sensible and logical but I’m not sure that it would work with then personalities involved.....

bcb1 said:

That would be the sort of idea i think is very sensible and logical but I’m not sure that it would work with then personalities involved.....

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I’ve heard that said before. Possibly by you. Any idea what the issue is or is it just a personality clash?

It's McGeeneys way or no way!