Ulster Senior Football Championship 2021

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gael_force_orchard

Well-Known Member
The job of a manager is to make a team better than the sum of its parts. Quite simply this is not happening in Armagh. The Armagh management have not unearthed this team of players. The players are with the clubs already and are known about. This is not a team the manager has built, it is a team he has picked and he is not driving them to be greater than their individual parts. The defensive structure/system has not been defined or put in place under McGeeney, quite the opposite in that he has chopped and changed and doesnt seem to know what way he wants his players set up himself. He has on a number of ocassions given interviews or indications that the players havent done what he wanted them to, yet he picks them again, so that is his problem. If they dont do what he wants them to then stop playing them until they learn. I don't think we are seeing the potential of what we have at the minute and its not a young team either. 4 or 5 players will need replaced or phased out in another 2 seasons by my reckoning. So a minor rebuild around the O Neills and very young players will be needed. Mc Geeney is not the manager for the job. I will be slated for calling this, but im openly now calling for him to go after next season. He has had more than enough time and he isnt up to the job. Last season for me. Time to go. He should not have had a renewed contract for next year either in my opinion. Can argue about structures at underage as well, but even when they are right (which they arent), we need a manager who has some semblance of tactical knowledge and we dont have that in McGeeney.
 
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bcb1

Well-Known Member
The thing about Tyrone club football is this. At senior level they may not have had much provincial success but they have had a wide spread of county winners in the last few decades. In the last 25 years they have had 11 different winners at senior level. So have Donegal. We for instance have had 5. The championship in Tyrone and Donegal is very competitive and as a consequence they are pushing each other on. The difference in those 2 clubs, and Monaghan as well, is that at Junior and Intermediate level they have consistent success at Ulster. This means that across all levels there is a high quality of players. Outside of ourselves An Port Mor have won the junior once, Mullaghbawn won the senior and no one has won the intermediate. 4 Tyrone clubs have won junior Ulster’s and 5 have won Intermediate. That tells the tail. They spread the quality across all levels
 
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thecritic

Well-Known Member
Tyrone club football is miles ahead of Armagh.
In terms of squad also - their strength in depth is huge. Rory Brennan, Lee Brennan, HP McGeary, Liam Rafferty, Richie Donnelly, Mark Bradley, Ronan O'Neill would all be central players and starters for us. Some of those lads didn't even make their squad of 26 which is scary!!!
We do have a solid starting team if all fit which isn't miles away but one or 2 injuries and we're in big trouble.
I also can't help but feel envious of the fresh management they took in this year.
 
ragingbull

ragingbull

Well-Known Member
If Mayo do end up winning a AI in the next few years it probably won't be a big deal cause they've lost so many lol
 
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Armamike

Active Member
armaghlad said:
All these comparisons with Tyrone are pointless - Tyrone is a much bigger county with generally a higher standard of club football, more competitive club scene, more schools competing at a higher level and overall a slightly different culture.

We are a smaller county with too many clubs, smaller clubs at that, and generally speaking a lower standard of club football. In Tyrone all senior football stops until the county is out, in Armagh we tip away regardless. So when they play their club matches in Tyrone they have everyone available, no skeleton teams and every team wants to win the league. In Armagh it’s a case of avoiding relegation from your relevant league and hoping for the best in championship.

In terms of management, be careful what you wish for. I don’t know who we would replace McGeeney with and how that new manager would be able to produce a decent full back line and possibly a goal keeper out of nowhere. By the same token a new manager might inject something that’s missing like Dooher and Logan. I know the players are still keen on McGeeney which at the end of the day is all that really matters.
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Not it's not. Granted, the club scene has been more competitive than ours.
All that matters is results and performances. It shouldn't be about likeability.
 
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armaghlad

Active Member
armaghtimmy said:
That is 100% completely wrong- Edendork with 3 county players currently bottom of the Div 1 league on 1 point. Carrickmore with none/very few tyrone players currently top. All have played 9 games also btw.
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What is wrong? Neither have played a league game since July regardless of their county contingents.
 
pablo

pablo

Well-Known Member
PatMustard said:
The manager is just one of many ingredients of the pudding. It’s not a case of just saying Kernan = good, the others managers = bad.

The two Brians laid the foundation for our breakthrough All Ireland, just as I suppose yer man in Tyrone laid the foundation for Dooher and Lohan.

But ultimately, the bulk of the players have to be there too, if you’re looking to get success. It’s not just a case of let’s bring in X - he’ll bring us to the promised land.
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Agree. When he first took on the manager role, Paul Grimley said team rebuilding would be a process and it would take time before we would see the project take fruit. We took some bad beatings back then before something started to come together in 2014. Then we took a step backwards again with bit of semi-turnover of players and since then have been slowly, stuttering forward to where we are now. I think both PG and KMcG recognized the need to rebuild the senior set up and that would take work. We do have a panel that is dedicated and prepared to work hard, with many players crediting KMcG for how he has looked out for them and brought on their game. I suspect the development of Aiden Forker has had a significant input from KMcG. The issues limiting our progress would not be addressed simply through change of manager. Another managerial set up may bring in an improvement in tactics, defensive stability and game management that are the immediate problems stopping this team from going up a notch to win silverware. But this is the squad that KMcG built and he has had to work with what is coming through our from our club system and underage/development set ups. And that is the wider issue that needs addressed. I do not want to undermine the efforts or dedication of our players, but the majority have no experience of winning nor have a deep held conviction like the Tyronies, that they should be at the top table. Do we think that the overall coaching of our players is at the standard it could be???

I feel it is about changing the culture with the county; at club level, in schools, underage and in our coaching. We have to address how we can achieve and maintain a healthy competitive club scene. Develop active coaching links with our schools. As much as it is hard to take, the Tyrone win should highlight the malaise we are in terms of ambition, self belief and having a vision of where we want to be. We do have the basic resources but to use and link with them much better.
 
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Savo01

Savo01

Member
We blew it against Monaghan, and there was only a kick of ball between Monaghan and them in the Ulster Final. We were well fit to win Ulster and as was proven, Kerry came in undercooked to the semi final. While you have to say Tyrone are better than us, there is definitely not much between us and with no backdoor or Super 8's there was an All Ireland to be won for a lot of teams this year. We missed a poor penalty in the League game against them this year that would have had us 5 points ahead of them so I firmly believe we are not that far behind them and I feel that if Rian O'Neill was let loose in Croker he could run riot against any top team. Cavin in 19 and Monaghan this year proved we've a mental weakness and if management can't sort that in 6 years, they never will.
 
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Armamike

Active Member
armaghlad said:
It is geographically bigger and has more clubs than Armagh.
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If we're going by geographical size, then Dublin should be in trouble.
My point is we've got a population pick on a par with Tyrone, which is the main thing. It's a bit of a cop out imo to say we're a smaller county so we shouldn't expect to be competing with them. Don't forget, Armagh were winning Ulster titles and appearing in All-Irelands long before Tyrone got out of bed in the 70s/80s. Where was the bigger county differential for the previous 70 or 80 years?
 
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Armamike

Active Member
bcb1 said:
The thing about Tyrone club football is this. At senior level they may not have had much provincial success but they have had a wide spread of county winners in the last few decades. In the last 25 years they have had 11 different winners at senior level. So have Donegal. We for instance have had 5. The championship in Tyrone and Donegal is very competitive and as a consequence they are pushing each other on. The difference in those 2 clubs, and Monaghan as well, is that at Junior and Intermediate level they have consistent success at Ulster. This means that across all levels there is a high quality of players. Outside of ourselves An Port Mor have won the junior once, Mullaghbawn won the senior and no one has won the intermediate. 4 Tyrone clubs have won junior Ulster’s and 5 have won Intermediate. That tells the tail. They spread the quality across all levels
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And we beat a good Tyrone club side in that final, Brackaville!
 
PatMustard

PatMustard

Well-Known Member
Armamike said:
If we're going by geographical size, then Dublin should be in trouble.
My point is we've got a population pick on a par with Tyrone, which is the main thing. It's a bit of a cop out imo to say we're a smaller county so we shouldn't expect to be competing with them. Don't forget, Armagh were winning Ulster titles and appearing in All-Irelands long before Tyrone got out of bed in the 70s/80s. Where was the bigger county differential for the previous 70 or 80 years?
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I’m not sure we can sit on that high horse about pre-1970’s football. 1977 was only our 5th Ulster, and our first since 1953. We won in 1950 too, but the previous one was the early 1900’s.

I don’t think anyone is saying we can’t compete with more populous counties, although bigger population does help in terms of playing numbers, schools football, coaching numbers, facilities, funding etc.
 
JoeH

JoeH

Well-Known Member
pablo said:
Cork have 259 clubs. Limerick 101.
Antrim have 108. Monaghan 50
We have 56 clubs. Tyrone 68.

Size seems to matter to you. Shouldn't. Its how you use it.
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Armagh has 45 football clubs.
If anyone knows of players who should be on the county squad name them. Two have already been mentioned from last weekends games
 
JoeH

JoeH

Well-Known Member
bcb1 said:
The thing about Tyrone club football is this. At senior level they may not have had much provincial success but they have had a wide spread of county winners in the last few decades. In the last 25 years they have had 11 different winners at senior level. So have Donegal. We for instance have had 5. The championship in Tyrone and Donegal is very competitive and as a consequence they are pushing each other on. The difference in those 2 clubs, and Monaghan as well, is that at Junior and Intermediate level they have consistent success at Ulster. This means that across all levels there is a high quality of players. Outside of ourselves An Port Mor have won the junior once, Mullaghbawn won the senior and no one has won the intermediate. 4 Tyrone clubs have won junior Ulster’s and 5 have won Intermediate. That tells the tail. They spread the quality across all levels
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We don't do well at Ulster club level except where Cross showed the way.

If we persist with 20+ teams playing in div 2 or 3 of underage age groups we are in trouble
 
ragingbull

ragingbull

Well-Known Member
JoeH said:
Armagh has 45 football clubs.
If anyone knows of players who should be on the county squad name them. Two have already been mentioned from last weekends games
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Two have already been mentioned from last weekends games,who's the two
 
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