Ulster Senior Football Championship 2021

Diarmi

Diarmi

Well-Known Member
Armaghniac said:
What an insightful analysis.
There are around 100,000 in the Armagh population that might be associated with the GAA. Divide that by the number of clubs then you get around 2250 per club. The statistics people give the population of the Crossmaglen super output area as 2950, this area includes all of the Culloville catchment, so say divide it 2000 to Cross and 950 to Culloville. Now the census area is missing some districts towards Creggan and that would be part of Cross catchment, but you soon run into Silverbridge on that side, and there might be a few districts towards Cullyhanna not the census district, but these are not much populated. So add in another 15% to Cross and you have 2250.
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That is the biggest load of shite I have ever read in my life. You just made up your own starting point of 100,000 and then added made up data after that. Perhaps you can extrapolate that analysis to give us the playing populations for all the other clubs in Armagh.
 
Armaghniac

Armaghniac

Well-Known Member
I notice you accuse me of writing shite, without posting an other data to contradict me.

The population of County Armagh in 2011 was 175000, it is more now. 54% of voting population are nationalists, 6% are in between and 40% are unionists. So taking nationalists and half the in betweens as prospective GAA people then that is 57% of 175000 which is 100,000 (or 99,750 if you wish). There was a report a few years ago about the Athletic grounds that said the same thing.

You can check the NISRA web site for the population, I haven't hacked into it and changed the population of Cross.

Diarmi said:
Perhaps you can extrapolate that analysis to give us the playing populations for all the other clubs in Armagh.
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I could, but you really should do your own research.
 
B

bcb1

Well-Known Member
As most teams based round a town or village we will always have a larger pick than most but that doesn’t mean that other clubs don’t have decent picks. Silverbridge for instance has a pick of a few small hamlets, Silverbridge itself, ballsmill/Glassdrummond, Creggan (accepted that Cross pick from there as well). It also then has a general widespread geographic in between these areas that they scoop from. Would that area have a similar population than Cross and surrounding areas? I’d say so. Similar to Cullyhanna which has a very widespread geography running the whole way along the Line from Carty’s house the whole way through Tullyvallen to Drumill and then down to the border and round to the village. If you want to make the argument about population Newtown would have a similar population (if you allow for the Protestant community) to Cross but is just out of Junior B. The difference is not the numbers, it’s what is done with the numbers and the names on the team sheets. Generational winners, success breeding success.
 
Diarmi

Diarmi

Well-Known Member
"I always felt a great part of Cross's success was due to their large pick and the fact that they did not have the same drop out rate as other clubs with similar populations. Keady being the opposite although granted there is no hurling in Cross."

Above was my quote.
The following teams were in Div 1 A & B this year.

Dromintee

Armagh Harps

Granemore

Crossmaglen

Killeavy

Maghery

Pearse Og

Ballymacnab


Madden

Clann Eireann

Grange

Mullabawn

Cullyhanna

Silverbridghe

St Peters

Annaghmore


So, if you take the town teams - Harps, Ogs, Clann Eireann, St Peter's. They might fall into the clubs with similar (or possibly larger picks) and would therefore have a greater drop out rates as stated in my comment above.

None of the other rural clubs would have anywhere near the pick of Cross and I don't need to look at census data to know that.
 
Diarmi

Diarmi

Well-Known Member
bcb1 said:
As most teams based round a town or village we will always have a larger pick than most but that doesn’t mean that other clubs don’t have decent picks. Silverbridge for instance has a pick of a few small hamlets, Silverbridge itself, ballsmill/Glassdrummond, Creggan (accepted that Cross pick from there as well). It also then has a general widespread geographic in between these areas that they scoop from. Would that area have a similar population than Cross and surrounding areas? I’d say so. Similar to Cullyhanna which has a very widespread geography running the whole way along the Line from Carty’s house the whole way through Tullyvallen to Drumill and then down to the border and round to the village. If you want to make the argument about population Newtown would have a similar population (if you allow for the Protestant community) to Cross but is just out of Junior B. The difference is not the numbers, it’s what is done with the numbers and the names on the team sheets. Generational winners, success breeding success.
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Sorry big man, Newtown would have nowhere near the pick of Cross although they would be deadly at whatever the national sport of Bulgaria is.

I do agree that success breeds success and makes players want to play for the team. But Newtown, really!!
 
B

bcb1

Well-Known Member
Diarmi said:
Sorry big man, Newtown would have nowhere near the pick of Cross although they would be deadly at whatever the national sport of Bulgaria is.

I do agree that success breeds success and makes players want to play for the team. But Newtown, really!!
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Not everyone in Cross plays football either! The same point can be made about Keady. It’s not the population it’s what is done within the club. I know when I played we averaged 300-350 members. That has obviously grown but it wouldn’t be much ch more than 600 members all told I’d say.
Do we have bigger numbers? Yes. The difference is what is done with those players. I know from being in other clubs over the years the difference in attitude, drive and levels of coaching is chalk and cheese in some senior clubs. Doesn’t mean we are the best at it but we would be consistently around the top
 
Savo01

Savo01

Member
h754136 said:
Well this is nonsense. St. Pat's have won 7 county championships since Cooley last won one. Anyway, Louth football is poor and it isn't a place from which we should be drawing inspiration.

I mean people from Omeath play for Cooley, The Pat's are nothing to do with Cooley obviously.
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Savo01

Savo01

Member
I am not saying every club should merge in every parish, just that it is interesting how Armagh clubs developed in comparison to the traditional parish boundaries used in so many counties. While it does allow for more opportunity at underage level, is it not detrimental for many at senior? Shane's reformed in 1984 and Carrickcruppen went from one of the strongest teams in the county to also rans, is that coincidence or is it linked? Whitecross and Belleek bob about in Intermediate and Junior, winning the odd title and getting a few years up a grade before coming back down. If Clady and the Nab were one team, would they have been strong enough to win a county title in the last couple of years? I appreciate it is all if's and buts, but that's what forums are for isn't it!
 
ShiftYa

ShiftYa

Well-Known Member
Savo01 said:
I am not saying every club should merge in every parish, just that it is interesting how Armagh clubs developed in comparison to the traditional parish boundaries used in so many counties. While it does allow for more opportunity at underage level, is it not detrimental for many at senior? Shane's reformed in 1984 and Carrickcruppen went from one of the strongest teams in the county to also rans, is that coincidence or is it linked? Whitecross and Belleek bob about in Intermediate and Junior, winning the odd title and getting a few years up a grade before coming back down. If Clady and the Nab were one team, would they have been strong enough to win a county title in the last couple of years? I appreciate it is all if's and buts, but that's what forums are for isn't it!
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There’s not a player good enough in clady to make an intermediate side nevermind a senior team so the answer to that is no.
You have to remember how a lot of the teams formed, forkhill would of started off as a breakaway from Mullabawn, Belleek a breakaway from whitecross I’m sure they’re many other similar examples around the county. Forcing clubs to amalgamate for competitiveness sake would only lead to these intra-parish frictions arising again. Many of the bigger clubs lose young players at a higher rate due to them ‘not being good enough’ round the u16 grade. It’s subjective if you think this more competitive natural selection is good for the gaa as a whole.
Club scene competitiveness doesn’t always directly correlate to county success, look at Down for example their club scene has more good teams than Armagh’s and their inter county record of late isn’t impressive.
I do think the divisional idea has great merit but I don’t think the appetite exists within the county for it to be implemented.
 
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A

armaghlad

Active Member
ShiftYa said:
There’s not a player good enough in clady to make an intermediate side nevermind a senior team so the answer to that is no.
You have to remember how a lot of the teams formed, forkhill would of started off as a breakaway from Mullabawn, Belleek a breakaway from whitecross I’m sure they’re many other similar examples around the county. Forcing clubs to amalgamate for competitiveness sake would only lead to these intra-parish frictions arising again. Many of the bigger clubs lose young players at a higher rate due to them ‘not being good enough’ round the u16 grade. It’s subjective if you think this more competitive natural selection is good for the gaa as a whole.
Club scene competitiveness doesn’t always directly correlate to county success, look at Down for example their club scene has more good teams than Armagh’s and their inter county record of late isn’t impressive.
I do think the divisional idea has great merit but I don’t think the appetite exists within the county for it to be implemented.
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Is it just me or are more clubs amalgamated at underage level than say 20 years ago?
 
K

Kem

Active Member
Kerry people would always maintain that tradition and breeding are the reason for their success. Cross is the same.
 
B

bcb1

Well-Known Member
pablo said:
Congratulations to the O'Neil brothers on their All Star nominations. Well deserved
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Well deserved and with their cousin Lauren McConville earning a nomination in the LGFA it’s a great time for the club but more
Importantly for the family. It’s amazing what genetics does!
 
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