ragingbull
Well-Known Member
has anyone seen or heard from Ard Mhacha 13 ?last seen or heard from on this forum last Saturday!
Armagh v Fermanagh (A) USFC 2018
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PatMustard
Well-Known Member
Knowing how passionate a fan @Ard Mhacha 13 is, I would imagine this defeat has really hurt.
It's usually a couple of days after matches before he/she posts anyway, to get a chance to gather the thoughts. I guess there's a lot of thoughts to gather this time...
weeskitter
Member
A lot of home truths spoke in Danny Hughes Irish News article.
FIFTY per cent of my blood is steeped in south Armagh. I have always admired the county's 2002 All-Ireland winning team and, despite the fact that particular generation of players failed to win another All-Ireland title, I have always considered them a ‘great' team.
Prior to that team coming to fruition, Armagh experienced plenty of bad days. They had been one of many teams never to win an All-Ireland title.
Indeed, throughout the Noughties, Armagh fans, including my football-mad relatives, thought the good times would last forever and those sorrowful days were over.
The Orchardmen were an utter shambles last Saturday and appear to have returned to darker times. Two points from play in 70 minutes is just not acceptable by any standards.
The stark reality, laid bare by a Fermanagh team who are maximising their lot, is that Armagh football is currently in a dire state.
The absence of any Crossmaglen representation on the county panel says as much about the malaise within inter-county football nowadays as it does regarding inter-county footballing ambitions in Armagh.
Crossmaglen is well represented in New York and further afield, with a number of the club's key players travelling and taking time out away from Ireland.
I am sure that Kieran McGeeney never forced this situation upon any of them.
McGeeney is an iconic figure and is the first and only captain of an Armagh All-Ireland-winning team.
He never finished his inter-county playing career in the way he wanted and that happens to many seasoned players, including yours truly.
Contrast the Armagh vibe to the county's neighbours Monaghan. I suppose I admire Malachy O'Rourke's management for his tactical nous, but also for his man management skills.
He has kept faith in the ‘old guard' and managed to keep them all happy, including the likes of Dessie Mone, Vinny Corey and, until last year, Dick Clerkin in whatever capacity or role those individuals play in the team.
It's a sign of the respect he has garnered when you never hear of any discontent in the camp, akin to Dublin under Jim Gavin.
O'Rourke (left) was smart when he allowed players like Clerkin to decide when their time was up and never forced or pushed it upon anyone.
Additionally, O'Rourke has the backing of strong Monaghan support base at all levels. County board level, club level and, most importantly, at supporter level.
McGeeney would enjoy board level support, however, I feel that this is probably where any comparisons end with the Monaghan situation.
For such an iconic figure as a player, there is a fair amount of anti-McGeeney sentiment within Armagh at club level.
The fact that some of the best players are not currently involved, particularly those from Crossmaglen, will always hang heavy over this team and indeed McGeeney's tenure.
This, coupled with a lack of success and that fact that Armagh have failed to win an Ulster Championship match in four years, has also sucked the life out of any large degree of goodwill at supporter level.
When Jim McCorry added last week that this was the most ‘talented bunch' he had ever worked with, it surprised many supporters within and beyond the county.
Two things are possible here if this is the case.
The players are ‘choking' on the big occasions. They could be tigers in a cage at training and pussycats in the jungle on the day of a match. Alternatively, perhaps Jim McCorry is somewhat misguided in his assessment.
I am always very cautious when it comes to praising talent in general. Humble in public and gushing in private would be my approach.
Plenty of observers have had their say on this so-called talented forward line of Armagh's. I just cannot see it. Their talisman, Andrew Murnin, was poor last Saturday, epitomised by his shot in the second half that was hit with the outside of the boot and barely hit the ball stop behind the Fermanagh goal.
Mark Shields, a natural half-back his entire life, played at centre-half forward.
The centre-half forward is your quarterback, the man to pull the strings. When you see equivalents out there such as Fermanagh's Declan McCusker, surely there is a better-suited player for this role?
Aidan Forker, one of the best club forwards in Armagh, has been playing at wing-back.
The team shape and positional formation looked overly-complicated and lacked cohesion.
That, in my view, is a management issue.
From the players' perspective, a lot will be made of the warm weather training camp.
It is brilliant when it bears fruit However, as the result indicated, the players have already let themselves and the management team down in their performance again this year.
There is no excuse when Niall Grimley elbows a player in the face, even though I doubt that him remaining on the pitch would have made much difference to the final result.
There is no excuse for missing 15 scoreable chances and giving the ball away so cheaply.
There is no excuse for indiscipline in the tackle and for conceding so many frees.
Fermanagh, however, played really well and Rory Gallagher has them very well organised. Sure, it might not be the prettiest to watch, but the Ernemen won't care about that.
They have good players everywhere and the return of the enigmatic Seamus Quigley will give Fermanagh a renewed sense of optimism.
Can they beat Monaghan in the Ulster semi-final?
It would be a massive ask , as Monaghan demonstrated last weekend, this is a team who can now cope with the hype.
With Conor McManus on top form and with experience throughout the team, I retain my belief that they will be Ulster champions.
Tyrone will progress in the Qualifiers and, on another day, they could well have won Sunday's match.
However, the loss of a few key men at half-time carried some of the blame.
Tyrone also lost their discipline and not just in Peter Harte's dismissal, which was frustration-borne and nothing more.
When goalkeeper Rory Beggan is so accurate, the continued reckless tackling by Tyrone cost them vital scores at key moments.
Referee David Coldrick didn't have one of his better games, granted, but I don't think you
can blame the official for the result.
When you hear three former Tyrone players criticising Tyrone's approach and style in the lead-up to the match, you begin to think that the veil of discipline synonymous with Harte's tenure is slipping.
I don't think you can blame
Ronan O'Neill for remonstrating with Harte. A substitute being substituted is embarrassing and the indignity is something no player should have to suffer.
Ten years ago, we [Down] beat Tyrone in a replay in a great game, one from which Tyrone would garner the positives before going on to win another All-Ireland title.
The same fate will not repeat itself 10 years on. That was a different Tyrone team, a much better team.
At that time, Monaghan were merely also-rans in the big picture. Not any longer.
Prior to that team coming to fruition, Armagh experienced plenty of bad days. They had been one of many teams never to win an All-Ireland title.
Indeed, throughout the Noughties, Armagh fans, including my football-mad relatives, thought the good times would last forever and those sorrowful days were over.
The Orchardmen were an utter shambles last Saturday and appear to have returned to darker times. Two points from play in 70 minutes is just not acceptable by any standards.
The stark reality, laid bare by a Fermanagh team who are maximising their lot, is that Armagh football is currently in a dire state.
The absence of any Crossmaglen representation on the county panel says as much about the malaise within inter-county football nowadays as it does regarding inter-county footballing ambitions in Armagh.
Crossmaglen is well represented in New York and further afield, with a number of the club's key players travelling and taking time out away from Ireland.
I am sure that Kieran McGeeney never forced this situation upon any of them.
McGeeney is an iconic figure and is the first and only captain of an Armagh All-Ireland-winning team.
He never finished his inter-county playing career in the way he wanted and that happens to many seasoned players, including yours truly.
Contrast the Armagh vibe to the county's neighbours Monaghan. I suppose I admire Malachy O'Rourke's management for his tactical nous, but also for his man management skills.
He has kept faith in the ‘old guard' and managed to keep them all happy, including the likes of Dessie Mone, Vinny Corey and, until last year, Dick Clerkin in whatever capacity or role those individuals play in the team.
It's a sign of the respect he has garnered when you never hear of any discontent in the camp, akin to Dublin under Jim Gavin.
O'Rourke (left) was smart when he allowed players like Clerkin to decide when their time was up and never forced or pushed it upon anyone.
Additionally, O'Rourke has the backing of strong Monaghan support base at all levels. County board level, club level and, most importantly, at supporter level.
McGeeney would enjoy board level support, however, I feel that this is probably where any comparisons end with the Monaghan situation.
For such an iconic figure as a player, there is a fair amount of anti-McGeeney sentiment within Armagh at club level.
The fact that some of the best players are not currently involved, particularly those from Crossmaglen, will always hang heavy over this team and indeed McGeeney's tenure.
This, coupled with a lack of success and that fact that Armagh have failed to win an Ulster Championship match in four years, has also sucked the life out of any large degree of goodwill at supporter level.
When Jim McCorry added last week that this was the most ‘talented bunch' he had ever worked with, it surprised many supporters within and beyond the county.
Two things are possible here if this is the case.
The players are ‘choking' on the big occasions. They could be tigers in a cage at training and pussycats in the jungle on the day of a match. Alternatively, perhaps Jim McCorry is somewhat misguided in his assessment.
I am always very cautious when it comes to praising talent in general. Humble in public and gushing in private would be my approach.
Plenty of observers have had their say on this so-called talented forward line of Armagh's. I just cannot see it. Their talisman, Andrew Murnin, was poor last Saturday, epitomised by his shot in the second half that was hit with the outside of the boot and barely hit the ball stop behind the Fermanagh goal.
Mark Shields, a natural half-back his entire life, played at centre-half forward.
The centre-half forward is your quarterback, the man to pull the strings. When you see equivalents out there such as Fermanagh's Declan McCusker, surely there is a better-suited player for this role?
Aidan Forker, one of the best club forwards in Armagh, has been playing at wing-back.
The team shape and positional formation looked overly-complicated and lacked cohesion.
That, in my view, is a management issue.
From the players' perspective, a lot will be made of the warm weather training camp.
It is brilliant when it bears fruit However, as the result indicated, the players have already let themselves and the management team down in their performance again this year.
There is no excuse when Niall Grimley elbows a player in the face, even though I doubt that him remaining on the pitch would have made much difference to the final result.
There is no excuse for missing 15 scoreable chances and giving the ball away so cheaply.
There is no excuse for indiscipline in the tackle and for conceding so many frees.
Fermanagh, however, played really well and Rory Gallagher has them very well organised. Sure, it might not be the prettiest to watch, but the Ernemen won't care about that.
They have good players everywhere and the return of the enigmatic Seamus Quigley will give Fermanagh a renewed sense of optimism.
Can they beat Monaghan in the Ulster semi-final?
It would be a massive ask , as Monaghan demonstrated last weekend, this is a team who can now cope with the hype.
With Conor McManus on top form and with experience throughout the team, I retain my belief that they will be Ulster champions.
Tyrone will progress in the Qualifiers and, on another day, they could well have won Sunday's match.
However, the loss of a few key men at half-time carried some of the blame.
Tyrone also lost their discipline and not just in Peter Harte's dismissal, which was frustration-borne and nothing more.
When goalkeeper Rory Beggan is so accurate, the continued reckless tackling by Tyrone cost them vital scores at key moments.
Referee David Coldrick didn't have one of his better games, granted, but I don't think you
can blame the official for the result.
When you hear three former Tyrone players criticising Tyrone's approach and style in the lead-up to the match, you begin to think that the veil of discipline synonymous with Harte's tenure is slipping.
I don't think you can blame
Ronan O'Neill for remonstrating with Harte. A substitute being substituted is embarrassing and the indignity is something no player should have to suffer.
Ten years ago, we [Down] beat Tyrone in a replay in a great game, one from which Tyrone would garner the positives before going on to win another All-Ireland title.
The same fate will not repeat itself 10 years on. That was a different Tyrone team, a much better team.
At that time, Monaghan were merely also-rans in the big picture. Not any longer.
Yes!
Suil eile.
Active Member
Yes, lets hope the "Powers that Be" take time to read it !
Rufus T Firefly
Well-Known Member
Thanks @huggy2002 for posting that article. That is a very good piece - insightful, intelligent, reasoned, thought provoking and gives a good perspective from an outsider's point of view, which can be helpful, as normally the Geezer issue can polarize opinion within the County. Hughes definitely appears to be very well informed with a clear insight into the whole issue, and I'd have to say a lot of what he says ringing true.
Really looking forward to the draw on Monday morning! Don't know about you, but I nearly prefer the Qualifiers as you never know who you're gonna get next. Looking at the draw, I genuinely don't think we can beat Tyrone or Mayo in Round 1, so hoping to avoid them. Anyone else I have faith in our team to beat.
pablo
Well-Known Member
Fair play to you, Admire your spirit. The Unbreakable Dinny Schmidt.
Thing is Naka should the draw fall favourably then the team could make the last 12 and in a one off game anything is possible. Will this be acceptable then? Will the future look bright?
bcb not for me, time for a change. this route has been tried and failed.
time for new ideas, and lets get some momentum back
I almost want tyrone or mayo away next to allow us to go out to a decent side and to allow no prevarication at the county board as to whether or nor to call it quits
time for new ideas, and lets get some momentum back
I almost want tyrone or mayo away next to allow us to go out to a decent side and to allow no prevarication at the county board as to whether or nor to call it quits
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pablo
Well-Known Member
Not for me either. Fell into that trap last year. And the year before that. Overly complicated approaches with an overly trained and under coached squad.
There is a fragility among this squad that comes about from playing roles they are not familiar with and/or not believing in what it is they are supposed to be doing (or simply not really knowing what it is they are supposed to be doing).
I don't want to be critical of the lads who were out there-I felt sorry for many of them. Young Crealey in particular looked totally at sea and really is capable of much better things.
It pains me to say this-but I almost just want it to be over and not fall again into the illusion of progress made. Its not working and will not work. Lets start to fix it as soon as we can.
There is a fragility among this squad that comes about from playing roles they are not familiar with and/or not believing in what it is they are supposed to be doing (or simply not really knowing what it is they are supposed to be doing).
I don't want to be critical of the lads who were out there-I felt sorry for many of them. Young Crealey in particular looked totally at sea and really is capable of much better things.
It pains me to say this-but I almost just want it to be over and not fall again into the illusion of progress made. Its not working and will not work. Lets start to fix it as soon as we can.
Is Crealy capable of much better? I haven’t seen much to suggest he is
pablo
Well-Known Member
I think the lad has definite potential if used and developed correctly-although granted he has not done a lot in the county jersey as yet.
I don't think the current regime is one likely to get the best from him.
Indeed there are a few players whose form since 2014 seems to have plummeted. Findon for example
PatMustard
Well-Known Member
I haven’t seen anything from him to suggest he has the potential people have been saying he has. I really hope he makes me eat these words but even given his tender years, I remain to be convinced. This far
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
must be over 19 since he not in the u20 team
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
the same goes for Owens