ULSTER FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP 2K22

Geezersleftfoot

Active Member
I couldn't even tell you who it was that famously said the only certain things in life are death, taxes and the boot being put into Geezer after an Armagh Championship defeat. And so it comes to pass. I've gone to start a reply to last Sunday's events a few times and each time lost the motivation to finish, so I'll try once more.

The first thing to say is that I don't want to go into detail on last Sunday, save to say that it was desperately disappointing. Truth be told, I thought we would get clipped, although the nature of the performance was very disappointing. For me, I thought Donegal learned an awful lot from the league game in Letterkenny and we did not. At half time in Letterkenny, I was sure that we were deliberately keeping our cards close to our chest by letting them have their own kick-out uncontested and by keeping Grugan and Rian O'Neill off the pitch - albeit at the expense of a heavy league defeat. However that changed at half time in that game and we seemed to go for broke, which I couldn't understand, and we won a lot of ball by pushing up on them and winning our own kick-out through runs to the wing. We nearly pulled a result out of the fire.

Back to Sunday and we let them have their own kick-outs in the first half which I thought was a lesson not learned and they owned us at midfield, pushing up on our kick-outs, narrowing the pitch and putting a line of steel across the middle. We then did not seem to be able to adapt / change and we were slowly strangled to death. It reminded me of a rugby union team not being able to win their own scrum. Recipe for disaster.

There's no doubt about it - it was not management's finest hour.

That said, it should not be lost that Donegal away is as tough a Championship opener as it is possible to get. I'd have Donegal currently in a group with Mayo and Galway, behind Dublin, Kerry and Tyrone. That is why I thought we would get beaten. Now, as to the criticism of management, would replacing the management improve things? Might we suddenly be winning matches such as Donegal away and pushing for an All Ireland semi-final?

With apologies to @POINTMAN but I'm going to quote his post and refer specifically to the line in bold.



I'd genuinely ask all on here - and not just POINTMAN - what they see as the potential of this group of players? Is it greater than what we are currently seeing, and if it is, do people think that a change of management will be key to achieving this? Would people feel that we should be challenging for Provincial honours? Should we be regularly in All Ireland quarter-finals? Semi-finals?

For me personally, I feel we are probably boxing at our weight, if not above our weight. I think our early season form tended to maybe give a false sense of where we are at, but I have seen nothing recently to suggest that we have progressed above 6 - 12 in terms of an order of merit. That simply puts the Donegals and Tyrones of this world above us in the pecking order and leaves a Provincial Championship a wee bit beyond us and an All Ireland quarter-final dependent on a favourable draw.

In a wider context, I genuinely feel the standard of football in Armagh is terrible and I would point to the record of our Under 20s, Minors and club sides in the Provincial Championships. Look at Tyrone in contrast - All Ireland Senior Champions and have just won (yet another) Ulster Under 20 Title.

Would a change in management alter that? I personally don't think so and I say that as someone - an ordinary punter - who would have issues with personnel and tactics last weekend. We are currently in a context in terms of inter county football where it is increasingly difficult to get players to buy in in terms of time, commitment, disruption to ordinary life etc. and I believe the current management have been able to maximise that buy in, including some key players. Might that situation be impacted if management was changed? I don't know, but it should surely be something to consider?

Anyway, in the conversations I have had since last Sunday, I do get an increasing sense that management is coming under the spotlight more and more and that the issue is going to be looked at in greater detail over the coming months.
Brilliant post as usual and I agree with a lot of what you say. I’ve been a big supporter of McGeeney. I feel he has taken his time and the team has shown improvement more or less year on year. I despair when I see the same old suspects on here come on and bash him after any loss. I could accept it a bit more if they ever gave credit.
Regards a change in management, I think a fresh pair of hands may be needed and that’s not a slight on Geezer. As mentioned I believe he has done a good job but we have a horrendous record in Ulster under him.
 

PatMustard

Well-Known Member
It’s very easy to bash McGeeney after a loss. But as @Rufus T Firefly points out, the structures of Armagh football need looked at; schools, underage groups, development squads, numbers of coaches etc etc.

If these structures aren’t right (and recent underage results would suggest they’re probably not - no disrespect to everyone working their ass off in this regard), then it’s a bit like replacing the captain of the Titanic after it has struck the iceberg.
 

Throwball

Well-Known Member
It’s very easy to bash McGeeney after a loss. But as @Rufus T Firefly points out, the structures of Armagh football need looked at; schools, underage groups, development squads, numbers of coaches etc etc.

If these structures aren’t right (and recent underage results would suggest they’re probably not - no disrespect to everyone working their ass off in this regard), then it’s a bit like replacing the captain of the Titanic after it has struck the iceberg.
To be fair on them I am not sure there is a great deal they can do about secondary schools. For example, I am not sure how much effort all the Tyrone teachers will want to put in to improve Armagh football. :D

I also think the academies were restructured a few years ago. Hopefully they will lead to improvement but that might take a few years to know.
 

Kem

Active Member
As someone who looks at a lot of underage football I have noticed an unhelpful practice of teams entering competitions at a level below that which they are realistically able to compete. The reasons for this are easy to see; they would be competitive at the higher level but perhaps not good enough to win. Thus they drop down seeking a cheap trophy. The end result is they are hammering weaker teams who are competing at their proper level. I don't think this helps the players handing out the hammerings
and certainly doesn't encourage the players on the receiving end to stick with the game. While I cannot say this practice is the reason for Armagh's abysmal underage record I definitely think it doesn't help. In fairness to the County Board they are doing their best to oppose the practice. The clubs are to blame and for short term gain are doing long term harm.
 

POINTMAN

Well-Known Member
I couldn't even tell you who it was that famously said the only certain things in life are death, taxes and the boot being put into Geezer after an Armagh Championship defeat. And so it comes to pass. I've gone to start a reply to last Sunday's events a few times and each time lost the motivation to finish, so I'll try once more.

The first thing to say is that I don't want to go into detail on last Sunday, save to say that it was desperately disappointing. Truth be told, I thought we would get clipped, although the nature of the performance was very disappointing. For me, I thought Donegal learned an awful lot from the league game in Letterkenny and we did not. At half time in Letterkenny, I was sure that we were deliberately keeping our cards close to our chest by letting them have their own kick-out uncontested and by keeping Grugan and Rian O'Neill off the pitch - albeit at the expense of a heavy league defeat. However that changed at half time in that game and we seemed to go for broke, which I couldn't understand, and we won a lot of ball by pushing up on them and winning our own kick-out through runs to the wing. We nearly pulled a result out of the fire.

Back to Sunday and we let them have their own kick-outs in the first half which I thought was a lesson not learned and they owned us at midfield, pushing up on our kick-outs, narrowing the pitch and putting a line of steel across the middle. We then did not seem to be able to adapt / change and we were slowly strangled to death. It reminded me of a rugby union team not being able to win their own scrum. Recipe for disaster.

There's no doubt about it - it was not management's finest hour.

That said, it should not be lost that Donegal away is as tough a Championship opener as it is possible to get. I'd have Donegal currently in a group with Mayo and Galway, behind Dublin, Kerry and Tyrone. That is why I thought we would get beaten. Now, as to the criticism of management, would replacing the management improve things? Might we suddenly be winning matches such as Donegal away and pushing for an All Ireland semi-final?

With apologies to @POINTMAN but I'm going to quote his post and refer specifically to the line in bold.



I'd genuinely ask all on here - and not just POINTMAN - what they see as the potential of this group of players? Is it greater than what we are currently seeing, and if it is, do people think that a change of management will be key to achieving this? Would people feel that we should be challenging for Provincial honours? Should we be regularly in All Ireland quarter-finals? Semi-finals?

For me personally, I feel we are probably boxing at our weight, if not above our weight. I think our early season form tended to maybe give a false sense of where we are at, but I have seen nothing recently to suggest that we have progressed above 6 - 12 in terms of an order of merit. That simply puts the Donegals and Tyrones of this world above us in the pecking order and leaves a Provincial Championship a wee bit beyond us and an All Ireland quarter-final dependent on a favourable draw.

In a wider context, I genuinely feel the standard of football in Armagh is terrible and I would point to the record of our Under 20s, Minors and club sides in the Provincial Championships. Look at Tyrone in contrast - All Ireland Senior Champions and have just won (yet another) Ulster Under 20 Title.

Would a change in management alter that? I personally don't think so and I say that as someone - an ordinary punter - who would have issues with personnel and tactics last weekend. We are currently in a context in terms of inter county football where it is increasingly difficult to get players to buy in in terms of time, commitment, disruption to ordinary life etc. and I believe the current management have been able to maximise that buy in, including some key players. Might that situation be impacted if management was changed? I don't know, but it should surely be something to consider?

Anyway, in the conversations I have had since last Sunday, I do get an increasing sense that management is coming under the spotlight more and more and that the issue is going to be looked at in greater detail over the coming months. It will be at that time that the more challenging questions will need to be asked, i.e. if we change management, what will be the positives and what will be the negatives arising.

And when it is fully analysed, I'm just not so sure that balance sheet will be as one sided as many here might think.
Cheers Rufus - good post.

I will repeat that I said we need a review "at the end of the county season" - not suggesting any change before that.

But I wonder if we had a manager with more tactical awareness or nous - would this group of players achieve more? What would we achieve if we had say Jim McGuinness or Malachy O'Rourke for example?
 

JoeH

Well-Known Member
Thomas Niblock has completely lost the run of himself on Twitter.
Claiming Monaghan genuine Sam Maguire contenders.
 

PatMustard

Well-Known Member
I thought maybe the Kildare Louth game would have been harder to call than the Tyrone Derry wan.

How many would have tipped Derry to beat Tyrone?

No fibbing now.
 
Top