2020 league

thecritic

Well-Known Member
Ok... let's gather for a moment.

If we are being critical, there is 0 we can take from tonight.
We have a 'good' team and 'good' squad but if we want to really rock with the big boys in Ulster we need to be well drilled. Tonight really seemed like a 'every man for himself' performance. So, so disappointing!! We are really in a battle now to avoid tier 2 - I am really uneasy about Derry in May - we are sitting ducks. We have a decent squad - next game is massive. At what stage, after a number of years do we consider how the team is run?
 

Rufus T Firefly

Well-Known Member
It's unbelievable that posters would criticise the players in lower divisions on our team - all well fit in my view! It's our first loss but are people happy with team set-up??

My sense is that this criticism is from a WUM. I would ignore to be honest.

Wasn't at the game due to work commitments but got to hear first hand about the game. Laois definitely have become a bogey team for us. Defence definitely seems to be an issue and the size of our victory last week papered over some cracks where Cavan were able to penetrate the centre of our defence - particularly in the first half - without making us really pay. Similar issues tonight?

For those of you who have been around these forums a while, you will know that a constant bugbear for me is the way other teams have that bit more incisiveness in their attacking play whereas we seem to get to the opposition '50' and then start playing laterally.

I note some here worrying that we may not make Division 1 next year - ironically my worry would be that we ensure we are not playing in another division next year, and it's not Division 1.

On a disappointing night, the one positive for me is to see 'gar' back posting. Every cloud and all that!!
 

Influx

Well-Known Member
It is in the darkest days that the greatest learning occurs. All performances are unexplainable and those in the management team will have insight into how things were this week at training, what injuries/niggles we are carrying and importantly what risks they were prepared to take in terms of tactics to still have a decent opportunity to win. All counties experience times during the league where things just don't make sense to us supporters who are so keen for success every time we take the field. Sometimes it can be the likes of a heavy training week which impacts upon performance that weekend. I myself am bitterly disappointed with the loss last night but we have to trust the process that is in place for this season and fully judge it at the conclusion of the campaign. A big game next week and I would expect a completely different performance and outcome.
 

Pat Cully

Well-Known Member
Yes I was at the match, as you can see from quoting my post I wrote "playing badly".
Well if you don’t like Bert’s quote of “heads up there holes” you have to agree that the first half was something very similar if not in those words.
The kick out strategy just isn’t working our best players are from 8-15 our kick outs should be aimed at getting to those players as quickly as possible not taking a chance that our corner backs get the ball under pressure on the 21.
The start of the 2nd half was better a lot because of kick outs and pushing up on theirs
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
Well if you don’t like Bert’s quote of “heads up there holes” you have to agree that the first half was something very similar if not in those words.
The kick out strategy just isn’t working our best players are from 8-15 our kick outs should be aimed at getting to those players as quickly as possible not taking a chance that our corner backs get the ball under pressure on the 21.
The start of the 2nd half was better a lot because of kick outs and pushing up on theirs
I didn’t like his quote at all. It should have been ‘their’ not ‘there’
Kick outs strategy has been non existent for a long time. However to label the players as having heads up their holes as a result is a bit harsh.
 

pbat1977

New Member
It was a poor day all round both on the field and the line. But at half time I thought are problem here is complacency,too many of the squad including management reading to many papers during the week and believing the hype. 15 minutes in it was like we were lost cause Laois had the audacity to play a bit of football and not roll over, and once we realised we were in a dogfight we were devoid of ideas. So if it brings everyone back down to earth it might be a blessing in disguise.

When we came out for 10 minutes and went at laois they were panicked. Why then did we revert back to retreating after we got back to within 3. Everyone that follows us knows we have a soft spine, 1, 3 and 6 are problem areas but yet have 8-9 great forwards and 2 very attack minded midfielders so lets start to play on the front foot, shoot the lights out and say to teams can you match us score for score. That tactic might not work if we ever got to division 1 but should be good enough to get us a fair bit against division 2 opposition.

Some of the referees decisions were baffling, but we do not help or selves, Laois scored 9 from frees last night. 3 maybe dubious but we still cant hold a man up without someone reaching in and pulling the arm. As for a lift ball on the 21 yard line, under 14 stuff, and I had clear site of that one and the referee was right on the call.

Anyway whats done is done and all we can hope for is a reaction next week, Kildare love an open game so lets throw caution to the wind and go for it.
 

pablo

Well-Known Member
It's unbelievable that posters would criticise the players in lower divisions on our team - all well fit in my view! It's our first loss but are people happy with team set-up??
I don't like my first post for a while to be a negative or critical comment. Like almost all of us here, I'm Armagh to the (apple) core. I don't have a problem with the players, their club backgrounds, their levels of commitment, and I agree, we have our fair share of excellent forwards/midfielders. All in all, management has gathered together a very good squad-that hasn't changed from last week. But I've always felt my long standing worry for this team is their coaching. They are well trained, as in they are fit-but that is different from coaching. Long standing issues continue to be discussed here; tackling, game management, defensive structures. These recurring problems may or may not be the fault of McGeeney-I really hope not as I want the faith a lot of us have continued to be placed in him to be justified. I still feel these problems come from deeper, structural issues with coaching. Our underage teams have not and are not setting the world ablaze either.
 

gael_force_orchard

Well-Known Member
Revisiting with another post after last night. We have a number of issues that just haven't been addressed over the years, we are too open and exposed down the middle, we are too slow to transition from defence too attack, when we arrive at the opposition 45 we lack urgency and ultimately revert to lateral passing (I'll come back to this), and we have a non existent kick out strategy.

A number of posters, myself included, were anxious before last night's game. We have been around long enough to know that we were not 13 points a better team than Cavan, though nor are we 6 points a worse team than Laois and this is where part of the problem lays. How many times over the years has an Armagh team been 6 or 7 points down at half time and come out all guns blazing, the net result us always the same, fight back to within 1 to 3 points with all the momentum and revert to type. I called it at half time last night and low and behold 15 mins in to second half and it had happened again.

We then ran out of ideas and impetus. It's a major problem of this team, when we play well I never feel like we truly drive at a team and cut them open, more we work the ball to the opposition 45 and our shooting accuracy from what I would call 50/50 pot shots is just higher than normal. Against Cavan in the first half we scores 6 points from unlikely scoring angles and shooting positions. They could just as easily have went wide. We do not attack with directness and with pace and we do not go for the jugular. Why is this? Are we coached to take to safe an approach?

Kick outs, they are poor, put us under pressure and they are not allowing us a base to build from. Our movement on kick outs is criminally absent, and no keeper is going to have a better success rate or better performance in this area until we actually move. We never hit a runner from a kick out, we hit a static player and this puts us under immense pressure instantly. This point may seem small but it's influence is huge.

We need to plug the backline somehow. I'm sick of runners tearing through us at pace. Gearoid McKiernan down it time after time for Cavan but wasted chance after chance. It happened last night, it has happened for a decade.

I didn't mean this to be a negative post. There are genuinely decent players in areas of this team, and very few county teams have stand out quality 1 though 15 and on the bench. So we have to mould a team and a system. This is where coaching and tactics come in. And unfortunately this is where we have been lacking for a decade. So serious questions need asking and answered. That is not berating management and players, it is genuinely asking for analysis and direction of future travel for this team.

Kildare up next, they will let us play and I think we can get a result against them. I also think we can get a result one of Clare and westmeath.

This team is not ready for division 1 and it may never be ready for it without uncovering significant additional quality. Let's target the 7 points I think we need to stay up. Teams will beat each other. We have went down on 6 points before. Armagh are a division 2 team, not a division 1 team or a division 3 team. We need 3 or 4 years consistency playing division 2 football and then see can we push on. That's what it's always been like for us and I think the majority will accept that.

Was a long post. Sorry.
 
Armagh dont lack quality footballers but we are no match for tyrone for example in terms of physical conditioning ,they have some ordinary enough players but are very hard to break down. i dont know why this is as im sure our players dont lack commitment .
 

Centrehalf

New Member
Won’t win anything with junior and intermediate footballers.
I haven’t posted in a long time and still read these posts but decline to comment. However this post has really annoyed me. First of all the posters club is phelim Brady’s. He should know better than anyone in some of these rural areas how difficult it is to keep a club fielding a senior team as emigration to countries, like Australia have hit all teams hard. Take for instance Brendan Donaghy’s club, Clonmore, have lost I think it is 7 players to Oz and New Zealand which would have strengthened them considerable and I have no doubt they would have been a strong intermediate team. Brendan Donaghy has played college football at the highest level for St Patrick’s Academy, university for Qub and UUJ, for Ulster at Railway Cup and Ireland in Compromise rules, as well at all levels for Armagh. A lot of managers must have rated him over the years. A lot of these junior and intermediate footballers have played at Colleges, university level and more than are a match for so call senior players. Armagh have had great players over the years from Junior and intermediate leagues Ie Fran McMahon Cullaville, Peter Rafferty Grange, Noel Marley Ballyhegan and Mullabrack, Joey Donnelly An Port Mor, Neil Smyth would have played in all divisions before Mullabawn reached the top. Stevie McDonnell played in Div One but Killeavy had their spells in intermediate football. On present panel , Soupy is playing intermediate football with the once mighty clannagaels. Ballymacnab and Granemore spent a lot of years in Junior football. There are a lot more examples. Take for example , Tyrone, their All Star Cathal McShane, plays for Owen Roes who up until last year played in bottom division. Now he is deemed good enough for Aussie rules . Callum Brown, Derry underage star , played club football for Limavady who were a junior club. He is now playing Aussie rules. So just because you are living and playing in an area were the local club is struggling for numbers and therefore play in lower leagues doesn’t mean that a player isn’t good enough. The great Spillane brothers,Pat,Mick and Tom, spent their club careers playing junior football in Kerry. I personally would love to see junior and intermediate teams amalgamated to play in Senior championship in Armagh. It works in Kerry the most successful county in Ireland. David Clifford plays for Fossa in Kerry , but his club is part of an amalgamation which is East Kerry, they are county senior champions. The great bonus in this system is Junior and intermediate players get a chance to play against the Rian and Oisin O’Neill’s and the like in Division one, then the players will be able to show if they have the ability to play at this level . I think the benefits of this will greatly improve the players themselves and benefit the county team. Sorry post is long but rant over.
 
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