All Ireland series

[Wee man]

Had a Down fan tell me they now want Armagh in Pairc Esler next year lol

Apparently they're going forward whilst we are going backwards.

Have to give it to that county - full of complete airheads.

Been listening to it all year
They are deluded

 

[Armagh_paul]

On a side note it was a joy watching Tyrone being dismantled in Croke Park - One fan said to me leaving, he hopes Monaghan destroy us. The best part of it, I didn't even cheer Kerry at any point in the game.

 

[Orchard Bhoy]

Does anyone else feel we are in the same stage as the two Brian's?

I think we were at that stage last year and have just missed the boat. Almost a third of our starting team are nearing the end of their county careers and unfortunately we don’t have a 19 year old Ronan Clarke waiting in the wings to step up. Whatever happens, I hope it’s done soon so that the management, whether that’s the current management or new management have time to watch club football and try to unearth a few new players.

 

[JoeH]

Strange that two teams touted for AI glory were obliterated by two teams who had a very handy provincial campaign and are peaking at the right time.
Derry looked off the pace yesterday

 

[JoeH]

I think we were at that stage last year and have just missed the boat. Almost a third of our starting team are nearing the end of their county careers and unfortunately we don’t have a 19 year old Ronan Clarke waiting in the wings to step up. Whatever happens, I hope it’s done soon so that the management, whether that’s the current management or new management have time to watch club football and try to unearth a few new players.

There are no more new players - this has been mentioned a few times on this forum
The best players are in the county squad

 

[Armagh_paul]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1675176342566977538

 

[Peter grimes]

This is what frustrates me about people calling for mcgeeneys head because we don’t play attacking football enough, you’re off your ear if you think any of those names come in and try to play some form of high octane, 3 man full forward line, attacking football. More likely we lose mcgeeney, followed by the raft of players around 32/33 over the next couple of years, then head into the wilderness like Kildare did when he left. What is the point in that.

I felt the first period of extra time exemplified the game and our season as a whole. We scored an early point, were set up well and worked hard to make a couple of really valuable turnovers, only to kick two really really poor wides within scoring range under little pressure. Then we gave up possession with an optimistic long ball from midfield to full forward line (which apparently we need to do more of..?). Then a very silly foul on the 21 and Monaghan tap it over to go in level when we should’ve been 3 points ahead. If we get even one of those scores and don’t give away that stupid free, no one is complaining about tactics.

Then the last free kick was another moment of madness all round. We seemed to be worried about a long ball in for a goal, but they were never going to do that. Where I was sitting we could clearly see 11 was standing free to take the easy pass from beggan. How different would things be if someone had simply went over to mark him so the pass wasn’t on and forced beggan to have a shot or even play a riskier pass.

I think the post above is just about as far off the mark as it’s possible to be.

Whilst one poster has mentioned MOR, McGuinness and Gavin, these names have hardly been bandied about by those proposing the more attacking game plan that we see some weeks but not others.

Personally I don’t think MOR would be a bad call but I think he will be back as a county manager soon enough but elsewhere.

This argument that if McGeeney goes it could or would trigger an exodus of 32/33 year olds - Where is the evidence for this? And if they did go would we just ignore the fact that they were at or about retirement age? It’s an easy argument to trot out but it’s foundations are shallow to the point of wafer thin.

The argument that those calling for a kicking game are calling for the “long ball in” is a complete misnomer. It’s the ball out from the back that is the key. Get that right and the ball into the full forward line is one of the many attacking options on offer but I haven’t heard or read a single fan calling for a long ball into a packed defence.

I think you are misrepresenting the arguments of others and then attempting to dismantle your misrepresentation rather than their actual argument. As I said I think you are way off the mark.

Your final point is very telling. Players dropping off into defensive positions instead of actively engaging the opponent is one of the key problems that many fans have with the current on field set up. If it happens once you might rightly get annoyed with the players involved but when it happens repeatedly surely you must question the tactic?

 

[ArmaghMartin]

Still haven't recovered from Saturday night. Pure gutted. It was basically the same game against Galway last year and Derry in the Ulster final.. This year was prefect chance to get to an All Ireland semi final and we didn't take the chance. I feel the management have take a massive share off the blame for Saturday. Yes a couple off players make the wrong choices. But this negative style off football which we have started playing this year is simply not good enough.

 

[Peter grimes]

Dust has settled a little after yesterday. Doesn't make the result any better but a few points to make on reflection;

A lot of comments on the management team and their input and influence on the style of play. You can't go out all guns blazing against a team playing 15 behind the ball and expect that we should shoot the lights out, regardless of how much talent we have. It's an extremely niave narrative where you'd be devoured on the break. But people think that because we had a shootout with Galway last year, where again we just about nicked a draw bare in mind, that's how it should always be. There were times we played on the front foot yesterday with a good attacking mindset and it was ultimately handling, misplaced passing and easy turnovers that caused the downfall in front of goal. That's most certainly not down to management and coaches.

I understand people want freshness and I'm not entirely sure as a supporter what I think is best at the minute, but I do know that if the current sideline go, there'll be a few who'll likely call it a day and then you're tasked with a new manager and a rebuild. And based on the likes of Cork, Down, Derry etc that's no easy and quick transition. And that's where I think, given how close we've come to progressing to at least and AI SF two years in a row, I'd be inclined to have one more year with the same squad and players.

I thought some lads really stood up yesterday. Aidan Forker just didn't stop. Relentless, passionate and honest. Grugan for all his endeavour and effort looked a little bit leggy. That mark in the 2nd half he would have had a go two or three years ago. We're at a bit of an impasse in the middle. Crealey's inconsistency is an issue. So good some days and so ineffective other days. Duffy has looked gassed the last few days out similar to how Aidan Nugent did in the few games he played. Soupy is an impact player in my opinion at this stage. Still offers plenty but would rather see him come in off the bench and lift the thing when we're flat.

I think our weakest line has been out half back line. CO'N has regressed as the year has gone on after promising so much. A few handy turnovers and frees given away proved costly. Jarly Óg is so frustrating. I watch the man play club football week in week out outside of intercounty ball and dominate the middle of the park. When he puts on an orange journey it's as if he feels shackled and afraid to make a mistake. His ability to cut through the middle and draw fouls and get scores at club level is what puts him head and shoulders above but with Armagh it's down the wing and recycle with no attempt to take men on.

The Ethan project is no longer giving us any distinct advantage as other teams are attempting the same and have copped on to it. Had we an out and out GK in yesterday the penalties may have been a different story. Aaron McKay struggled yesterday but I think he's had a solid year and made himself an invaluable man in the full back line. Paddy Burns really stood up the last two games after a wicked injury. For a man who doesn't get a lot of praise at the best of times he made a great fist of it on Shane Walsh and again on McCarron yesterday. Probably our best man marker now.

I think Hall, Oisín Ó Néill, Higgins and a few others will offer a lot more next year and with O'Neill and O'Hanlon it's like getting two new players. The former maybe solving our midfield conundrum. Maybe a Jarly/Oisín midfield.

And to make it worse, after watching that Derry performance it just shows you how close we are. Anyway, we go again. I'll see ye all in The Box It Athletic Grounds in the depths of January. Ard Mhacha Abú.

Fully agree on the Paddy Burns point. He is our biggest asset when it comes to marking against pace. As an added bonus he rarely runs into traffic on his forward runs.

Some of your other comments are a bit like the comments from Hoops that I have just posted about.

The so called naïve narrative of going all guns blazing or trying to shoot the lights out might well be naïve but whose narrative is it? Who is actually calling for that? I’m not sure who these “people” you are talking about actually are.

But yes we will be back at the Athletic Grounds cheering on our county.

Let’s hope when we get there we have a coherent game plan that best utilises our talents, gives us an opportunity to thrive and excel, and that makes sporting life uncomfortable for opposition players and management.

 

[Seamy]

Fully agree on the Paddy Burns point. He is our biggest asset when it comes to marking against pace. As an added bonus he rarely runs into traffic on his forward runs.

Some of your other comments are a bit like the comments from Hoops that I have just posted about.

The so called naïve narrative of going all guns blazing or trying to shoot the lights out might well be naïve but whose narrative is it? Who is actually calling for that? I’m not sure who these “people” you are talking about actually are.

But yes we will be back at the Athletic Grounds cheering on our county.

Let’s hope when we get there we have a coherent game plan that best utilises our talents, gives us an opportunity to thrive and excel, and that makes sporting life uncomfortable for opposition players and management.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that because we were free flowing in beating weak Dublin and Tyrone teams in last year's league, two teams who at the time were in a bit of dissary then having a turkey shoot with Galway and equalising at the death, that that's what we're expected to be capable of and that should be the blue print. Every second comment on here is about negative style of play and not attacking enough. Bare in mind in our last two outings with Monaghan we kicked 1-07 and 1-14 respectively. It was always going to be that sort of game.

Seperate to that, you have to play what's in front of you. The Dubs tried to carry on their own way against Donegal in 2012 by sticking to their own brand of football and that was what cost them.

I genuinely don't think we've nearly as great of a forward 6 unit as some might think. Rian, as lethal as he is has his quiet spells, Rory Grugan is on the downward curve and probably Soupy too. Turbitt and Rian don't seem to compliment one another and that's a pity, because if we had both of them on song there'd I'd be a lot more confident in playing a more positive brand of football. We tried a number of long balls in to Murnin and he was swallowed up the other day, so there's no point in persisting with that in an AI QF. I see a lot of commentary about why Cian McConville isn't play and that he should be. I've seen him play with Cross and he's been unreal, but if anyone thinks that the management team are niave enough to leave him aside if he's doing the same in Armagh training...I doubt it very much.

I, like you would love nothing more than to see a firebrand, all out positive approach where we run at teams, play long balls in, shoot the lights out etc etc. But the reality is we don't have the midfield or attacking prowess and have to realise this. It's very hard to articulate on a post here my thoughts and views on it properly but I think the most, if not more is being got out of the crop of 30 odd players we have.

 

[Hoops]

I think the post above is just about as far off the mark as it’s possible to be.

I’m pointing out that people are simply saying geezer out, but there’s little thought as to what happens next. MOR has a fantastic cv, though he’s going to be with glen for another run at the all Ireland this year. Can’t see him leaving glen in the middle of it.

Re the potential retirements, it’s a question of stability in the group. I’m not saying there’s some sort of ultimatum from those lads where if mcgeeney goes they’ll quit. But, if we take some risk at management and that doesn’t go well, by the time we’d fix the management decision they’d be gone. Then you’re trying to change a manager and 4 of the starting 15 at the same time. Look at the handling Monaghan and Donegal just had to replace managers in the middle of players retiring & nearing retirement. MOR said Donegal ‘weren’t the right fit’, and you can read into that all ye want. It’s obviously worked well for Monaghan now but it still took them 4 months and we don’t have anyone similar to Corey sitting in the wings.

My reference to the wasted long kick pass was a tongue in cheek remark to highlight that we did attack plenty on Saturday, 5 attacks to 2 in that period, but because the attacks didn’t result in scores it creates an overly simplistic narrative that we weren’t attacking enough.

My final point was about how the team had set up to defend a goal attempt or shot dropping short and not to defend a worked shot for a point. I don’t think that is connected to the defensive set up throughout the game.

 

[John]

It appears some Peoples posts are attempting to excuse the overtly negative defensive set up by management by trying to blame the players. These same players who give everything for the team, yet in many instances have to adjust their own game to suit which does have an effect. Our players are no different to any counties players. They all make mistakes. Have you ever considered that the way they are set up or told to play could actually be adding to this. Expecting great forwards to be great defenders and vice versa is I'm afraid wishful thinking.

 

[stevie_06]

It appears some Peoples posts are attempting to excuse the overtly negative defensive set up by management by trying to blame the players. These same players who give everything for the team, yet in many instances have to adjust their own game to suit which does have an effect. Our players are no different to any counties players. They all make mistakes. Have you ever considered that the way they are set up or told to play could actually be adding to this. Expecting great forwards to be great defenders and vice versa is I'm afraid wishful thinking.

Think there is 'blame' on both side. And I don't think blame is the right word. The players do have to take responsibility for what happens on the pitch and the same with management. Both the players and management are 100% committed on achieving the best result out on the pitch.

They coincide with each other. To land the entire blame on either the players or management doorstep is unfair and very naive.

 

[stevie_06]

Maurice Brosnan: Where do Armagh go from here?

On Saturday Monaghan desperately wanted to win. Armagh needed to win.

www.irishexaminer.com

 

[Wide ball]

I think the point I'm trying to make is that because we were free flowing in beating weak Dublin and Tyrone teams in last year's league, two teams who at the time were in a bit of dissary then having a turkey shoot with Galway and equalising at the death, that that's what we're expected to be capable of and that should be the blue print. Every second comment on here is about negative style of play and not attacking enough. Bare in mind in our last two outings with Monaghan we kicked 1-07 and 1-14 respectively. It was always going to be that sort of game.

Seperate to that, you have to play what's in front of you. The Dubs tried to carry on their own way against Donegal in 2012 by sticking to their own brand of football and that was what cost them.

I genuinely don't think we've nearly as great of a forward 6 unit as some might think. Rian, as lethal as he is has his quiet spells, Rory Grugan is on the downward curve and probably Soupy too. Turbitt and Rian don't seem to compliment one another and that's a pity, because if we had both of them on song there'd I'd be a lot more confident in playing a more positive brand of football. We tried a number of long balls in to Murnin and he was swallowed up the other day, so there's no point in persisting with that in an AI QF. I see a lot of commentary about why Cian McConville isn't play and that he should be. I've seen him play with Cross and he's been unreal, but if anyone thinks that the management team are niave enough to leave him aside if he's doing the same in Armagh training...I doubt it very much.

I, like you would love nothing more than to see a firebrand, all out positive approach where we run at teams, play long balls in, shoot the lights out etc etc. But the reality is we don't have the midfield or attacking prowess and have to realise this. It's very hard to articulate on a post here my thoughts and views on it properly but I think the most, if not more is being got out of the crop of 30 odd players we have.

I disagree here we have been involved in the most entertaining games every year for the last 4 or 5 years and came out the wrong side so the management has went defensive to try and counter that, it didn't work, we lost a great game v galway last year, lost a hight scoring game v Monaghan the year before then the year before that a brilliant game lost v rossies and the year before that knocked out by mayo in a game we should of won, if you don't think all that made the management go defensive your crazy, my opinion is we went too defensive, we played zonal defending and with zonal defending you need more players back, I'm no manager but if with 6 defenders and 2 midfielders and 2 or all the half forward line inside your 45 you can't stop teams you may give up and we had more than that inside the 45, it doesn't take teams long to figure out systems, Rafferty was an ace card last year as was jarly og from half back, but teams copped onto it and cut them out of most games, we went zonal and teams started pushing everyone up and figured it out and I'd rather lose going for it than sitting back and left wondering what if?

 

[Pat Cully]

Does anyone else feel we are in the same stage as the two Brian's?

No we’re past that

 

[Pat Cully]

Anybody got a link to rewatch the match

 

[Positive Outlook]

Some of the comments have been ridiculous on here.
I think the management team will decide to walk away have they did it a good job yes! Some of the players will call it a day aswell which is very unfortunate!

People need to realise that Armagh probably at the point were most people think they should be ulster finals and quarterfinals of AL! Reality is do you have a squad to win an AL no but don’t get me wrong I expected the team to win on Saturday which is disappointing. Look at the Dublin and Kerry panels from the weekend the talent is ridiculous.

My points on why the management has been successful- when is the last time we have done well at underage? 2012? But we still manage to get some players into the panel but when you look at it we still rely on the same older players apart from Rian!

Do we look at the point that the team has been in every game this season and it’s down to those moments in games that special players stand up we have really good players but do we have Clifford or Con that seems to get you the match winning moments. ? That’s why them teams always in finals. Games at the top level is won by moments of quality! I think we are a bit short on that.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but be careful what you wish for. Remember when geezer was forced out by people at Kildare they have been really successful from that.

 

[thecritic]

Some of the comments have been ridiculous on here.
I think the management team will decide to walk away have they did it a good job yes! Some of the players will call it a day aswell which is very unfortunate!

People need to realise that Armagh probably at the point were most people think they should be ulster finals and quarterfinals of AL! Reality is do you have a squad to win an AL no but don’t get me wrong I expected the team to win on Saturday which is disappointing. Look at the Dublin and Kerry panels from the weekend the talent is ridiculous.

My points on why the management has been successful- when is the last time we have done well at underage? 2012? But we still manage to get some players into the panel but when you look at it we still rely on the same older players apart from Rian!

Do we look at the point that the team has been in every game this season and it’s down to those moments in games that special players stand up we have really good players but do we have Clifford or Con that seems to get you the match winning moments. ? That’s why them teams always in finals. Games at the top level is won by moments of quality! I think we are a bit short on that.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but be careful what you wish for. Remember when geezer was forced out by people at Kildare they have been really successful from that.

So keep him on for the foreseeable future?
9 years is more than enough for any regime no matter what the successes or lack of. It's time for change no matter what and maybe in a couple of years we will look back at this spell and realise it was the best we could do - who knows.
Our neighbours were calling for Mickey Harte's head after 10 years and he'd won 3 AI's.
Now is the time IMO but I'm sure we'll all get behind whoever is in charge once again next year, Geezer or not.

 

[Revenge]

Watched some of OTB AM this morning and they had Anthony Moyles on reviewing the weekend. I take what these talking heads say with a pinch of salt a lot of the time, because they don't see enough of teams to get a true reflection of how teams are really going. The word that kept coming up in regards to Armagh was negativity and has been for most of the season. We were far too negative and it cost us. Monaghan wanted us to slow it down and make it a slug fest. If we had actually gone for it a bit more, we would have won it by a couple of points. He referenced the Ulster Final where the same thing happened. In the two biggest games of the year, we lost it because we didn't believe in ourselves and really go for it. We set up not to lose, instead of to win. I totally agree. Sadly a lot of that comes down to the management and how we set up. The county board need to be asking serious questions about that.

I think it's lazy analysis to say we were too negative. I think regardless of tactics our biggest problem over the last few years is the midfield we had some success in the first half against Monaghan but fair play to Monaghan they put that fire out and Crealey had to be taken off. Against Galway midfield got their hands on a lot of ball and Armagh produced the best performance of the year no coincidence. Dublin and Kerry's midfield where excellent and Derry are strong in this area, I feel this is the piece of the jigsaw we are missing a Diarmuid O Connor or a Brian Fenton would give us a new dimension in terms of kick outs winning possession and bombing forward.