All Ireland series

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Peter grimes

Well-Known Member
Seamy said:
I think the point I'm trying to make is that because we were free flowing in beating weak Dublin and Tyrone teams in last year's league, two teams who at the time were in a bit of dissary then having a turkey shoot with Galway and equalising at the death, that that's what we're expected to be capable of and that should be the blue print. Every second comment on here is about negative style of play and not attacking enough. Bare in mind in our last two outings with Monaghan we kicked 1-07 and 1-14 respectively. It was always going to be that sort of game.

Seperate to that, you have to play what's in front of you. The Dubs tried to carry on their own way against Donegal in 2012 by sticking to their own brand of football and that was what cost them.

I genuinely don't think we've nearly as great of a forward 6 unit as some might think. Rian, as lethal as he is has his quiet spells, Rory Grugan is on the downward curve and probably Soupy too. Turbitt and Rian don't seem to compliment one another and that's a pity, because if we had both of them on song there'd I'd be a lot more confident in playing a more positive brand of football. We tried a number of long balls in to Murnin and he was swallowed up the other day, so there's no point in persisting with that in an AI QF. I see a lot of commentary about why Cian McConville isn't play and that he should be. I've seen him play with Cross and he's been unreal, but if anyone thinks that the management team are niave enough to leave him aside if he's doing the same in Armagh training...I doubt it very much.

I, like you would love nothing more than to see a firebrand, all out positive approach where we run at teams, play long balls in, shoot the lights out etc etc. But the reality is we don't have the midfield or attacking prowess and have to realise this. It's very hard to articulate on a post here my thoughts and views on it properly but I think the most, if not more is being got out of the crop of 30 odd players we have.
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You continue to talk about long balls into the full forward but fail to point out who is actually calling for that?

What is “firebrand” football and who is calling for it?

Time and time again it has been explained that the alternative to ultra defensive football is not just launching it in on the square.

Also you mention having to play what is in front of you- well we have it in our locker to play in a style that opponents hate. Why not exploit that? Turn it on its head and make them cope with what is in front of them??
 
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Peter grimes

Well-Known Member
Hoops said:
I’m pointing out that people are simply saying geezer out, but there’s little thought as to what happens next. MOR has a fantastic cv, though he’s going to be with glen for another run at the all Ireland this year. Can’t see him leaving glen in the middle of it.

Re the potential retirements, it’s a question of stability in the group. I’m not saying there’s some sort of ultimatum from those lads where if mcgeeney goes they’ll quit. But, if we take some risk at management and that doesn’t go well, by the time we’d fix the management decision they’d be gone. Then you’re trying to change a manager and 4 of the starting 15 at the same time. Look at the handling Monaghan and Donegal just had to replace managers in the middle of players retiring & nearing retirement. MOR said Donegal ‘weren’t the right fit’, and you can read into that all ye want. It’s obviously worked well for Monaghan now but it still took them 4 months and we don’t have anyone similar to Corey sitting in the wings.

My reference to the wasted long kick pass was a tongue in cheek remark to highlight that we did attack plenty on Saturday, 5 attacks to 2 in that period, but because the attacks didn’t result in scores it creates an overly simplistic narrative that we weren’t attacking enough.

My final point was about how the team had set up to defend a goal attempt or shot dropping short and not to defend a worked shot for a point. I don’t think that is connected to the defensive set up throughout the game.
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Genuinely that makes no sense at all.

Managerial appointments have gone wrong before. So have managerial retentions. If they are to be ruled out because they can go wrong then management can neither go nor stay! Maybe the ghost of Erwin Schrödinger should take over for next year?

Otherwise I think you are seeing what you want to see and dismissing anything to the contrary.
 
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Naka

Active Member
Mc geeney is staying
Reality is the players want continuity and support him so he is going no where
Tbf anyone who has had the chance to talk to him will realise that he is as disappointed as the rest of us
 
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armaghtimmy

Well-Known Member
Naka said:
Mc geeney is staying
Reality is the players want continuity and support him so he is going no where
Tbf anyone who has had the chance to talk to him will realise that he is as disappointed as the rest of us
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Course he's disappointed, the man lives and breathes Armagh football. I think he will stay one last year and after that he will go alongside some established names (Forker, soupy, grugan, murnin, morgan... maybe a few more) and we will see the new manager come in that will need to bring in fresh blood. A good knowledge of the club scene will be vital, personally would love if Mardsen was involved but I guess the landscape can change a lot in 12 months so time enough for that conversation in due course.
 
ShiftYa

ShiftYa

Well-Known Member
Naka said:
Mc geeney is staying
Reality is the players want continuity and support him so he is going no where
Tbf anyone who has had the chance to talk to him will realise that he is as disappointed as the rest of us
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Realistically if there’s a chance the managers there next year most players aren’t going to tell them him they want him gone a risk of their playing spot next season.

Of course McGeeneys going to stay if he has the choice, every season he stays he further lines his pockets.

The vast majority of club people around the county want change, what are we waiting on, it’s not going to be 10th time lucky.
 
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thehighballinlow

Active Member
Throwball said:
He had a pick from 5 (?) Ulster under 21 winning teams.
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Fair play to cavan for winning them u 21's. What where we doing as a county when they were winning their u21's?

There needs to be a look at all football within armagh club and county.

When is the last time we been competitive at ulster club junior intermediate or senior?

When is the last time we been competitive at minor or u21 county.

To be fair to management he cant pull players put of a hat if there not there what can he do.

I think county board, development officers, and structures within the county need looked at.
 
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niall1980

Well-Known Member
ShiftYa said:
Realistically if there’s a chance the managers there next year most players aren’t going to tell them him they want him gone a risk of their playing spot next season.

Of course McGeeneys going to stay if he has the choice, every season he stays he further lines his pockets.

The vast majority of club people around the county want change, what are we waiting on, it’s not going to be 10th time lucky.
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Lining his pockets?
How do you know the vast majority of club people around the county want him gone?
 
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Wide ball

Well-Known Member
ShiftYa said:
Yes he’s getting a very generous wage from the position.

Talking to fellow gaels and general sentiment online would lead me to believe so.
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It was widely believed when he first came in he was the 3rd highest paid manager in the game, there are all sorts of rumours around about what's he on so hard to know what's true, on him staying or going I think he has a bigger buy in than anyone else would get from Armagh and if he is to go I'd personally prefer someone from outside the county for a fresh start also we have been so bad underage and alot of the managers from armagh that would be in line to follow him have failed at management underage for us, and on the older players leaving if mcgeeney goes, Its hard to know if it's true or not but if it is true it would be sad but I'd rather players play for the county and not the manager so if they go I would wish them the best and would cheer on the team still,
 
Armagh_paul

Armagh_paul

Well-Known Member
For McGeeney staying

- Players buy into what McGeeney is selling. Grimley was there to set things in motion, O'Rourke was not there for the betterment of Armagh football, McDonnell after 2008 was not on my Christmas list.
- Knows Armagh football - likely yo be going to most if not all games. Brought in a nice attacking brand of football that we needed to persist with.
- Can build a team and there seems to be a rebuild on the horizon.
- I would think he likes players to dedicate themselves to achieving success and is happy to turn away those who are not willing - despite having county level attributes.
- As an Armagh man he has Armagh's best interests at heart. Regardless of the comments about his wage, he put a lot of time and effort into Armagh as a player and experienced a lot of heartache. Wouldn't dare question his commitment to Armagh.
- This could be at a stretch but would anyone on here be in favour of him managing some of the underage teams? I think this would be where he would excel. He knows what is expected at county level, prepare them earlier and get that extra 5/10% later on.
- I would cautiously state that we have progressed under McGeeney but I question why the likes of Derry have surpassed us so quickly. Cork are not far off and these are two teams that have literally been to the bottom. There have been posts on here in the past that state we simply do not have the players and McGeeney is getting the best out of the team.
- If McGeeney left the team would fall apart.

Against McGeeney staying

- His reputation whether it is deserved or not, is working against us and will continue to do so. I think this costs us at least 3 points per game.
- Tactically there are too many occasions where we have not done the job. Sometimes this falls on the players but the management bear the responsibility of deploying tactics that are not to our strengths.
- Too long in charge and still a long way off an AI - especially after last year.
- Some do not realise this but there will be a swath of players leaving soon Campbell, Murnin, Morgan, Forker, Grugan. Naturally teams need to change but these are key players and I don't think the existing players that are in their 4th/5th seasons are stepping up in the same way, despite having the talent.
- A frustration about who is played. I have read that McGeeney does not like playing players unless they have been on the panel for at least 2 years. I get the logic as to why this rule is in place but it is silly. If we have a player that is at the same level or better than Rian do they have to sit on the bench for 2 years? No. Why have the dam rule.
- In the early years I don't think he got the right people in for coaching roles. Perhaps they were good for the level we were at but never got the impression we would do much.
- Other than Donaghy I don't think he has the right coaches in place - this might be an unpopular opinion. I would love to see Paul Grimley back in some capacity.
 
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W

Wide ball

Well-Known Member
Armagh_paul said:
For McGeeney staying

- Players buy into what McGeeney is selling. Grimley was there to set things in motion, O'Rourke was not there for the betterment of Armagh football, McDonnell after 2008 was not on my Christmas list.
- Knows Armagh football - likely yo be going to most if not all games. Brought in a nice attacking brand of football that we needed to persist with.
- Can build a team and there seems to be a rebuild on the horizon.
- I would think he likes players to dedicate themselves to achieving success and is happy to turn away those who are not willing - despite having county level attributes.
- As an Armagh man he has Armagh's best interests at heart. Regardless of the comments about his wage, he put a lot of time and effort into Armagh as a player and experienced a lot of heartache. Wouldn't dare question his commitment to Armagh.
- This could be at a stretch but would anyone on here be in favour of him managing some of the underage teams? I think this would be where he would excel. He knows what is expected at county level, prepare them earlier and get that extra 5/10% later on.
- I would cautiously state that we have progressed under McGeeney but I question why the likes of Derry have surpassed us so quickly. Cork are not far off and these are two teams that have literally been to the bottom. There have been posts on here in the past that state we simply do not have the players and McGeeney is getting the best out of the team.
- If McGeeney left the team would fall apart.

Against McGeeney staying

- His reputation whether it is deserved or not, is working against us and will continue to do so. I think this costs us at least 3 points per game.
- Tactically there are too many occasions where we have not done the job. Sometimes this falls on the players but the management bear the responsibility of deploying tactics that are not to our strengths.
- Too long in charge and still a long way off an AI - especially after last year.
- Some do not realise this but there will be a swath of players leaving soon Campbell, Murnin, Morgan, Forker, Grugan. Naturally teams need to change but these are key players and I don't think the existing players that are in their 4th/5th seasons are stepping up in the same way, despite having the talent.
- A frustration about who is played. I have read that McGeeney does not like playing players unless they have been on the panel for at least 2 years. I get the logic as to why this rule is in place but it is silly. If we have a player that is at the same level or better than Rian do they have to sit on the bench for 2 years? No. Why have the dam rule.
- In the early years I don't think he got the right people in for coaching roles. Perhaps they were good for the level we were at but never got the impression we would do much.
- Other than Donaghy I don't think he has the right coaches in place - this might be an unpopular opinion. I would love to see Paul Grimley back in some capacity.
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I would like him have some role at underage or maybe head of the academy but that's a step down and can't see that happening
 
Armagh_paul

Armagh_paul

Well-Known Member
Wide ball said:
I would like him have some role at underage or maybe head of the academy but that's a step down and can't see that happening
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I would like for him to continue in both roles. If he is getting paid big bucks as some are making out on here, then he should be responsible for some underage role. However, I am aware that playing to one managers style limits progression so perhaps underage in a consultancy role.
 
P

POINTMAN

Well-Known Member
Armagh_paul said:
For McGeeney staying

- Players buy into what McGeeney is selling. Grimley was there to set things in motion, O'Rourke was not there for the betterment of Armagh football, McDonnell after 2008 was not on my Christmas list.
- Knows Armagh football - likely yo be going to most if not all games. Brought in a nice attacking brand of football that we needed to persist with.
- Can build a team and there seems to be a rebuild on the horizon.
- I would think he likes players to dedicate themselves to achieving success and is happy to turn away those who are not willing - despite having county level attributes.
- As an Armagh man he has Armagh's best interests at heart. Regardless of the comments about his wage, he put a lot of time and effort into Armagh as a player and experienced a lot of heartache. Wouldn't dare question his commitment to Armagh.
- This could be at a stretch but would anyone on here be in favour of him managing some of the underage teams? I think this would be where he would excel. He knows what is expected at county level, prepare them earlier and get that extra 5/10% later on.
- I would cautiously state that we have progressed under McGeeney but I question why the likes of Derry have surpassed us so quickly. Cork are not far off and these are two teams that have literally been to the bottom. There have been posts on here in the past that state we simply do not have the players and McGeeney is getting the best out of the team.
- If McGeeney left the team would fall apart.

Against McGeeney staying

- His reputation whether it is deserved or not, is working against us and will continue to do so. I think this costs us at least 3 points per game.
- Tactically there are too many occasions where we have not done the job. Sometimes this falls on the players but the management bear the responsibility of deploying tactics that are not to our strengths.
- Too long in charge and still a long way off an AI - especially after last year.
- Some do not realise this but there will be a swath of players leaving soon Campbell, Murnin, Morgan, Forker, Grugan. Naturally teams need to change but these are key players and I don't think the existing players that are in their 4th/5th seasons are stepping up in the same way, despite having the talent.
- A frustration about who is played. I have read that McGeeney does not like playing players unless they have been on the panel for at least 2 years. I get the logic as to why this rule is in place but it is silly. If we have a player that is at the same level or better than Rian do they have to sit on the bench for 2 years? No. Why have the dam rule.
- In the early years I don't think he got the right people in for coaching roles. Perhaps they were good for the level we were at but never got the impression we would do much.
- Other than Donaghy I don't think he has the right coaches in place - this might be an unpopular opinion. I would love to see Paul Grimley back in some capacity.
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Against staying:

Been there for 9 years, winning nothing.
Not tactically astute or able to react well to opposition's tactical changes.
Tactics are too rigid and too cautious, not enabling the team to go for a win.
His reputation is possibly working against us with referees.

Accepting that he is Armagh through and through, players are very loyal to him and he himself is very dedicated to the cause.
But - see above.

Thanks - but time for a change.
 
G

GAAGael

Active Member
Naka said:
Nope
But he has another year so no need to be confirmed
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Also has asked senior players to get the squads views on him staying.

Difficult position, because he carries a certain fear factor and many would not turn on one of their own. I think the only way he leaves is if the county board force his hand.
 
G

Gaamaniac

Active Member
GAAGael said:
Also has asked senior players to get the squads views on him staying.

Difficult position, because he carries a certain fear factor and many would not turn on one of their own. I think the only way he leaves is if the county board force his hand.
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Surely every squad player will not be saying they want him to go incase he’s in charge next year and finds out ? County board should be the ones making a decision on this matter
 
W

Wide ball

Well-Known Member
Looking at the cross team, if they can't win or be near an Ulster title Armagh football Is gone, county level players in Morgan, Hughes, Cian mcconville, cumiskey the 2 O'Neills, for me Morris is county level too then older players that where county standard in Clarke and Kernan and some young players that will be county level in Fitzpatrick, of Duffy and Finnegan, ridiculous team
 
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