All Ireland series
- Thread starter William Of Orange
- Start date
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
No but you are for wanting them to win the other day
Wanting a team to win makes you an idiot. Okey-dokey.No but you are for wanting them to win the other day
Bit bemused by pundits coming out about Armagh not kicking the ball.
Think there were 3 or 4 balls kicked into Murnin but only one of them resulted in a mark and score.
Our best move of the match came from a kick into Duffy who then laid it off to Murnin who put it over the bar.
Also remember Rafferty kicking at least 2 in. One that was intercepted and the other went out over the line for a wide.
Grugan goal chance came after a kick from O'Neill. But he went for the fist over the bar instead of shot at goal.
Constantly kicking in for 70 (or 90) mins is unrealistic. But to say Armagh just didn't kick the ball in is lazy analysis
Even allowing for managerial shortcomings it came down to the fact that 15 players on the field couldn't defend a lead for 30 seconds.
Patrick-Armagh
Well-Known Member
I do feel that at this point the management of the team could do with freshening up. After 9 years in charge, there's not a whole lot left that McGeeney can get from this group. I would say that there would have to be a very good replacement ready to come in and take the reins, if the county board were looking to make a move. It maybe taken out of their hands if McGeeney decides that the time has come to move on, in which case, we could be left scrambling around for a manager at this level.
I heard some pundit making the point that we are three penalty kicks away from having a very different last few years as a team. However, I'd counter that by saying that in all three games we were winning when going into the dying embers of extra time and didn't have what it takes to get over the line. That could be a player thing, a manager thing or more likely a bit of both. Listening to the OTB Football Pod today, they, like everyone else I've listened to, just couldn't get over the way we approached the game. Totally played into Monaghan's hands, didn't back the strongest part of our game which is our forwards and showed our intent from the off by dropping a forward for a half back. The amount of scores we left behind in that first half was criminal and that's despite playing slow, turgid football. If we had played with slightly more attacking intent, we would have walked that game. There's no doubt that the team were nervous and sensed the enormity of what was facing them. It's three days on and I still feel empty from that result.
Whoever is in charge next season, the things that stand out for me are that we need are more pace in the full back line and out the field to really stretch teams. I'm not sure if there are players outside of the squad who could bring that? Conaty and McQuillan are obvious ones on the squad. We need to get Oisin O'Neill, Niall Grimley and Tiernan Kelly back to beef up our middle third options for more power and scoring ability, which Crealy and Mackin lack. We have to find a better balance between attack and defence, as we just can't play like we did this season again. In the National League, players like McQuillan, Conaty, Turbitt, McCambridge, Higgins and Kieran have to be given more game time to really progress. There's obviously the need to get back into Division 1, but there's players on the panel who are clearly talented but need to be exposed to more minutes against good teams, to get them more ready for Championship. We know what Forker, Grugan and Campbell can bring to the team and should be used more sparingly so they are fresher for later in the season, like you see the Dubs doing.
I heard some pundit making the point that we are three penalty kicks away from having a very different last few years as a team. However, I'd counter that by saying that in all three games we were winning when going into the dying embers of extra time and didn't have what it takes to get over the line. That could be a player thing, a manager thing or more likely a bit of both. Listening to the OTB Football Pod today, they, like everyone else I've listened to, just couldn't get over the way we approached the game. Totally played into Monaghan's hands, didn't back the strongest part of our game which is our forwards and showed our intent from the off by dropping a forward for a half back. The amount of scores we left behind in that first half was criminal and that's despite playing slow, turgid football. If we had played with slightly more attacking intent, we would have walked that game. There's no doubt that the team were nervous and sensed the enormity of what was facing them. It's three days on and I still feel empty from that result.
Whoever is in charge next season, the things that stand out for me are that we need are more pace in the full back line and out the field to really stretch teams. I'm not sure if there are players outside of the squad who could bring that? Conaty and McQuillan are obvious ones on the squad. We need to get Oisin O'Neill, Niall Grimley and Tiernan Kelly back to beef up our middle third options for more power and scoring ability, which Crealy and Mackin lack. We have to find a better balance between attack and defence, as we just can't play like we did this season again. In the National League, players like McQuillan, Conaty, Turbitt, McCambridge, Higgins and Kieran have to be given more game time to really progress. There's obviously the need to get back into Division 1, but there's players on the panel who are clearly talented but need to be exposed to more minutes against good teams, to get them more ready for Championship. We know what Forker, Grugan and Campbell can bring to the team and should be used more sparingly so they are fresher for later in the season, like you see the Dubs doing.
Pundits and media calling for us to play more attacking football I take with a pinch of salt. They are neutrals and want to see open attacking games like Galway last year.
So naturally they are going to be critical if we are more defensive or not as gung ho as previous years.
But if you look at it objectively last year we played what many would consider good attacking football. We had a good league campaign and then went out in first round of ulster. Then went on run in qualifiers before losing on penalties in All Ireland quarter final.
This year we have been more conserative in our approach. We got relegated narrowly in the league but then went on to lose an Ulster Final on pens. Then reached All Ireland quarter final and lost on pens again.
So for all these calls to play attacking football where did it get us last year. The exact same place as this year. You could argue this year we had a better year in the championship as we reached an Ulster final.
Naturally as an Armagh fan I want us to go out and shoot the lights out every match with us winning by 5 or 6 points. But I am also realistic that after last year I think we did need to better defensively to progress further. Admittedly we probably did over correct in our approach this year and most matches we couldn't find the balance consistently for 70 mins.
But be weary of the external talk of Armagh moving to negative system and letting ourselves down. All the questions from the media about why don't we play attacking football and thats what the country wants to see. Well we did last year and still ended up with nothing.
Yes last year we had some great matches which we enjoyed along with the neutral. But we had the same outcome this year and there is a lot more criticism this year. Where did all the pundits go last year questioning our approach when we lost to Galway. It didn't happened because it entertaining and exciting to watch.
Just hope the county board, players, managers, supporters and anybody else involved with the county are able to rationally look the past 24 months and not just what the perception from the media and other external sources.
Rant over
So naturally they are going to be critical if we are more defensive or not as gung ho as previous years.
But if you look at it objectively last year we played what many would consider good attacking football. We had a good league campaign and then went out in first round of ulster. Then went on run in qualifiers before losing on penalties in All Ireland quarter final.
This year we have been more conserative in our approach. We got relegated narrowly in the league but then went on to lose an Ulster Final on pens. Then reached All Ireland quarter final and lost on pens again.
So for all these calls to play attacking football where did it get us last year. The exact same place as this year. You could argue this year we had a better year in the championship as we reached an Ulster final.
Naturally as an Armagh fan I want us to go out and shoot the lights out every match with us winning by 5 or 6 points. But I am also realistic that after last year I think we did need to better defensively to progress further. Admittedly we probably did over correct in our approach this year and most matches we couldn't find the balance consistently for 70 mins.
But be weary of the external talk of Armagh moving to negative system and letting ourselves down. All the questions from the media about why don't we play attacking football and thats what the country wants to see. Well we did last year and still ended up with nothing.
Yes last year we had some great matches which we enjoyed along with the neutral. But we had the same outcome this year and there is a lot more criticism this year. Where did all the pundits go last year questioning our approach when we lost to Galway. It didn't happened because it entertaining and exciting to watch.
Just hope the county board, players, managers, supporters and anybody else involved with the county are able to rationally look the past 24 months and not just what the perception from the media and other external sources.
Rant over
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
3 pen shoot outs lost in a row & the only one that really mattered was the ulster final one with a cup at the out come of it,last year we would have lost to Kerry in the final if we'd have got pass Galway & Derry & lost to Dublin if we'd have got passed Monaghan this year
Armagh_paul
Well-Known Member
It's 4.
If we want to avoid losing penalty shoot-outs, it is simple - STOP wasting chances in Normal time and Extra Time.
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
Mckenna Cup sucks
Sure next year we just won't enter the championship. No point really since we can't beat Dublin or Kerry
Armagh_paul
Well-Known Member
It might do but there is a problem when it comes to penalty shoot-outs in any competition, we never seem to win them.
I thought our standard of pens against Galway and Derry were pretty poor.
But against Monaghan the standard seemed a lot better. Looked like something they had been working on.
Somebody got on to Jarlath. Surely his first point of action as president is that Armagh no longer have to compete in penalty shoot outs. Don't think I could take losing another one
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
lets take pen shoot outs out of gaa games just cause Armagh can't win any of them
They all really mattered ffs
Bull doesn’t understand that
Ouch It’s Francie
Active Member
I’m not going to comment on the game nor our season as each to their own. However penalties are not part of our game, what is part of our game is poor refereeing decisions, usually when they need to level up something or not be held to something. It’s human nature - I’m not having a go. Best mate is a Tyrone ref that’s responsible for fixtures, so fairs fair.
We need to have a video ref to call big decisions. Jesus Monaghan were down a man and that was no black card. Mayo’s disallowed goal would have been overturned. Big games need correct decisions on big points. (And for those that come in about not having this in league games, club games etc., well we don’t have Hawk Eye either…)
Anyways- for those that have an interest in coaching - what’s the most common thing we all do at the end of training? Let’s say There’s a in house game going on, time hits 7 or 8 or 9 o’clock and we all shout “next score’s the winner”. We never shout, “penalties” - it’s a soccer thing. We do this at under 10 games, it’s bred in us. It’s what we know!! Not penalties.
Therefore, every club in Armagh, and I’ll be pushing in Divingmidgetland, that if we the GAA, persist in getting a result, we adopt a next score is the winner. I would be open to a two point margin, as teams who got the fist point would be up to pushing on.
Penalties took 26 minutes - I’d prefer the former.
We need to have a video ref to call big decisions. Jesus Monaghan were down a man and that was no black card. Mayo’s disallowed goal would have been overturned. Big games need correct decisions on big points. (And for those that come in about not having this in league games, club games etc., well we don’t have Hawk Eye either…)
Anyways- for those that have an interest in coaching - what’s the most common thing we all do at the end of training? Let’s say There’s a in house game going on, time hits 7 or 8 or 9 o’clock and we all shout “next score’s the winner”. We never shout, “penalties” - it’s a soccer thing. We do this at under 10 games, it’s bred in us. It’s what we know!! Not penalties.
Therefore, every club in Armagh, and I’ll be pushing in Divingmidgetland, that if we the GAA, persist in getting a result, we adopt a next score is the winner. I would be open to a two point margin, as teams who got the fist point would be up to pushing on.
Penalties took 26 minutes - I’d prefer the former.
Armagh_paul
Well-Known Member
Instead of penalties why not frees from the 45?
Armaghball
Well-Known Member
Yeah I like your idea. Only problem there is if theres a galeforce wind it obviously gives one team an unfair advantage.