Armagh v Fermanagh (A) USFC 2018

Jamie's Coffee

Active Member
Its very frustrating as a supporter, Whatever the reason, that talented footballers don't make themselves available for the county. We are (or were) building something positive in the county... A midfield that would stand up v any in the country, a defence that is beginning to look menacing again and attackers that for the first time in a long time meant we would not rely too heavily on one man as well as the fact that there were was a good bench. Now it appears that 5 or 6 are opting out - that's dented my hopes of a successful season or seasons - I hope i'm wrong.
 

ragingbull

Well-Known Member
hope the club's didn't vote any of the crossmaglen players on the armagh club team of year or in any of the awards!
 

Rufus T Firefly

Well-Known Member
Some are mentioning 5 or 6 players making themselves unavailable and I'm hearing much larger numbers than that. Whilst there may be a variety of reasons, I get a sense that the current state of inter county football might also be a factor here. The arguments are well made at this stage, but to give a brief overview, players do not want to make an enormous commitment in terms of time and effort, along with many sacrifices, for what is likely to be little or no reward.

Armagh had a good year in 2017, ending up in an All Ireland quarter-final. Ordinarily, I would have expected that to serve as a real morale booster and to encourage many to commit and redouble their efforts, with a view to promotion and a Championship run. However the nature of our exit - a crushing defeat to Tyrone, who were themselves crushed by Dublin, shows that we are a long way off the summit, and it might prove enough to turn many of our players off. This issue is certainly not isolated to Armagh.

I think you have to respect the wishes of each individual player, despite the disappointment. The hope would be that we get a committed squad to wear our jersey next year, and we can all get behind them. With expectations significantly reduced, then maybe we can play with a little less pressure and possible surprise ourselves.

Hope, as they say, springs eternal!! :)
 

gar

Member
So so disheartening but not a thing in the world we can do about it. If a lad wants to take a year out so be it. I still don't think we were as bad as Tyrone were as good against us and Tyrone certainly aren't as bad as they were against Dublin. Somewhere in between lies the truth. I spoke with an intercounty player who gave me this summary of his commitment. Works way down south, gets up every morning 5.30, gym for 6, 1 hr showered etc of to work. Home at 6 30 pm heads out to training home at 11. Bed, up next morning same thing again and again the following days, sometimes four to five days a week and then Sunday or Saturday games. Weekends away etc. I don't blame management. They are only doing what most of the top counties are doing. That is unbelievable commitment and we are liable to slate them, give off when they don't reach the standards we demand as supporters. And all this failure to get out of the third division and fall at the first round of Ulster. Yes, a good run in the back door but then as Rufus says hit the wall of Dubs etc. Something has to give, either work goes or the county goes. We as a sport are facing this. We are victims of our own pursuit of excellence. We take notes and ideas and plans from all other sports but the huge difference is they are all professional. We are not, yet we are demanding professional lifestyle commitment from men (and women) who find it so difficult to juggle both and they walk away and some of us cry. Many will say they don't have to play no one is begging them but yes we are. We want the best players out there no matter what the circumstances we want the best to satisfy our craving for success. But the game is running away on us and we are chasing it and unless someone cries halt or has the audacity and foresight to either go the whole hog or pull back we are going to see more young lads drift. Armagh's list of absentees for 2018 isn't finished yet. There, unfortunately, is more to come but I'll leave the honour of the announcements to the players or manager themselves.
 

bcb1

Well-Known Member
gar that is basically the position I’d say of all bar the top 6-7 counties. I personally believe that the sport is at the precipice....it goes semi pro or restrictions are placed on funding and sponsorship to even out the field. I do not know what the answer is but the thing is like in the real world the rich will get richer and the rest of the lower counties will have to scramble for the crumbs.
 

gar

Member
I agree entirely. The rich are getting richer. It's not a gripe it's a fact. We either go semi-pro, put a cap on salaries or place a cap on funding to each county. Come up with a level playing field of sorts. I hate the thought of going semi-pro it's against my ethos and all I stood for but if I have to make a choice between the game I love and it fading into a two-three horse race or worse one then the game won't have to worry about whether I love it or not, it will be dead and buried at the top level anyway.
 

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
Hope, as they say, springs eternal!! :)
I'll leave the honour of the announcements to the players or manager themselves.
the lower counties will have to scramble for the crumbs.

Guys firstly please don't read anything into the way I've editing the quoted text. It's more that I'm expanding into your conversation agreeing with all three and adding to the points without having anyone reading, re-reading all that text or scrolling past.

Just yesterday I went to Ballybofey for the Ulster coaching conference - long story. Now the workshops and keynotes were excellent and worthwhile, but I and almost everyone else got much more from the lighthearted Q&A session with Chrissy McKaigue, Neill McGee and Stephen Poacher (no I didn't know who he was either)! Neill McGee was excellent if a little timid and quiet, but the real point of this post was the other two men and two key points.

Firstly Chrissy McKaigue. I honestly could listen to that lad talking all day. An inspiration and superbly intelligent. His main point is the amount of work and commitment involved as a player. Then double that as a dual player. That's just club and then add county football and then on top of that, county hurling. Throw a full time career into the mix and then life is non existent. His take - "It's my drug of choice and it's much more addictive than anything a dealer could sell you. It's because of your home. Your community. The people you grew up around and the people you love driving you on. It's easy to see why it's for the very few!"

Stephen Poacher, involved with one of those "lower counties" and coming from Down, knows about dreaming and believing along with a tradition from back in time and how that shapes the expectation from supporters. His main point - "Jesus people need to take a seriously hard look at what they want and how achievable those expectations are. Only one team can and will win the ultimate prize. The rest will have a hope of winning a game and maybe a freak run to a provincial final. Others will make the last eight, four will win a provincial title, but realistically outside the established teams, at the minute, regardless of how much money is thrown at a team, they have to realise their level and manage themselves appropriately. Louth started training 3 weeks ago. Christ their expectations are massively beyond the reality. They should be keeping fit doing what any athlete would do to maintain that level and then after Christmas start enjoying field work. And therein lies the key. Where the hell has the enjoyment gone in this scramble to improve? Who has made massive improvements in that last twenty years other than Dublin? Teams like tyrone, Monaghan, Donegal are gonna be about their own level with Tyrone being the only team in Ulster managing to maintain a level, but even all their training and tactics and science haven't brought them more success in nearly ten years now. So does that mean we all throw the towel in and accept the inevitable? Absolutely not, but we need to get real. A player at county level will have proven that he or she is already fit. They will have already proven that they are skilled. They have already proven that they are committed, but by god they are going to be driven away from the sport we all love because of the stupidity and nonsense of expectation. Let's get back to enjoying this sport again for the masses. Stop the stupid drive for massive financial income and generate enough to cover costs and look after our playing assets before we look back at how good it used to be - like Spillane already does! Let the players enjoy what they are creating. Let them be there because they want to be there. Not because they feel they have to be. Professional sports like soccer and Rugby don't do the daft training regimes we expect from our lads and the girls (a point remade later by Peter Donnelly who should know having worked with some major teams) and they don't hold down a full time job. Love the game and respect the players!"

I have to be honest and say I agree with the sentiment, but I'm not sure if it is achievable as my learned friends have already outlined, maybe a little more eloquently than I have transcribed.

By the way, the piece was recorded on the phone by one of the young ladies with me and we listened to it back again on the way home yesterday and she sent to me today. What I have typed might not be "exactly" as it was spoken, but it is close enough. Now that's enough typing for a few weeks - Oh and it was mentioned yesterday at lunch that the Dr. McKenna draw will be on Thursday 30th November and it was hoped Armagh tv would be streaming it live again if they are available. Seems it'll be on Ulster GAA Facebook, so that means @PatMustard will have to settle for reading about it here!!
 

Throwball

Well-Known Member
Excellent points Calm. I wonder though is some of the non commitment of some players to the county squad as much to do with the fact that they do not think the county can meet their expectations instead of just wanting to enjoy the experience. Then again maybe they do not want to join the county and fave the wrath of us over expectant supporters!
By the way Poacher usually has an excellent article in Gaelic Life every week.
 

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
Cheers TB. Yeah I learned a lot about the guy on Saturday. Maybe not as high profile as some, but no doubting his passion, insight and intelligence. I honestly think it reflects well the thoughts of our 3 prominent posters on this thread - gar, bcb1 and Rufus and I hope I'm not misreading or misrepresenting them. People that are at the forefront of our county setups, with their clubs or family of players will have to be heard. Not only that, but listened to as well. Possibly gar would disagree with his opinion that academies are a waste of resources, but I doubt anyone would disagree that it could be more effective if channelled into the schools where most of these boys and girls attend anyway and instead of duplicating facilities and putting more pressure on these people to commit more and more time, it's focused on a more familiar environment for them.

Certainly worth going to these events if you're not just listening to "yes men!"

In truth, if you were subject to the abuse that players got on the old forum, would you want or be willing to step into that cauldron if it was a measure of opinion from the county - even if I believe it was not truly reflective. Just an outlet for keyboard warriors who wouldn't have the bottle to do these things for themselves. So far the new forum has had positive and negative comments without anyone getting up in arms about it. Maybe the CB not having control is much better
 

bcb1

Well-Known Member
Calm1 you’re correct in that you reflect my feelings on it. Poocher is a crazy man on the sideline....I know him well so I can slag him off....but he talks sense. We are getting to a stage where pop will eat itself and the games as we know them at county level will disintegrate. There is not the capacity to go pro or semi pro as that will simply perpetuate and enhance the ‘rich get richer’ problem. It is no cyclical either as Dublin have an outrageous structure that will not be mirrored. Like us in Cross for the last 20 years success will always breed success and when you have financial support to take that to the next level then there will only be a continuity of the status quo. Also the reality is that a successful Dublin is the marketeers dream boat as they can promote the game among the masses better than say a successful Donegal team.

There are very hard questions that need answered for the good of the game as a whole. If we go semi pro with a top 8-10 teams in it this will destroy the game and it will become like the League of Ireland....financially and morally bankrupt. Caps on sponsorship will be nigh on impossible to implement. One thing that could be looked at is that the sponsorship would only be allowed with indigenous Irish companies so that the likes of Vodafone and AIG cannot make themselves available. The Dubs would still get a big slice from someone but maybe not as much. Only ideas but something needs to happen
 

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
Abso-bloomin-lutely!! Couldn't agree more. The ideas you suggest run with all I believe in. Problem though I see about "Irish only" and I'll admit it's only a guess, but it would fly in the face of European anti-competitive rules, in the same way that the GAA were unable to ban the likes of ADIDAS, etc. from supplying official kit as they weren't solely manufactured in Ireland and they received a cautious warning that if they tried to implement that it would get messy. They took the different approach then of "licensed" products which was quietly challenged and somewhat dropped if they would go away and stop rocking the boat no doubt with a "handshake" to ease the pain. A similar situation that the english FA found itself in a number of years ago when they wanted to cream off profits from merchandise sales. Buying and running a GAA licence is not cheap. My point is that this feeds entirely into your "rich getting rich" thinking. It becomes a "boys club" and those of us on the outside can gaze in wonderment at the lavish surroundings. We've already been taken for major mugs several times over the years. I was on my club committee when the letter arrived from HQ asking for "donations" towards the building of "our new stadium with unlimited access for the members!" What vision and request. It wasn't mentioned though that we'd have to "donate" each time we wanted that unlimited access!

I think our organisation is already moral bankrupt, certainly at the upper levels. I despair when I hear of the decision makers next move, only to learn that they have no background in or history with the GAA. It's purely a job for them. A career if you like. Just because they have a relevant qualification - nothing wrong with that by the way. I have my qualifications too. It just annoys me that you don't need a grass roots in the organisation to make decisions on all our behalf's. That's just wrong!

Again you're bang on with the Dublin marketeers dream. I remember reading O'Neill's accounts a few years back (I am that sad person) when it was publicised in some of the press. Their sales of replica Dublin jerseys alone to the "tourist market (never mind the supporters) was higher than the total number of units sold across the whole of the rest of the replica range. This was pt down to simply having something from Dublin, but regardless it allowed O'Neill's to justify their "return" to Dublin at that time. Effectively buying their custom. This at a time when Azzuri, Gaelic Gear , Adidas and another (sorry the name escapes me at present) were trying to break into the market. O'Neill's effectively bought Dublin's loyalty. How could Carlow, Offaly, Fermanagh etc. possibly compete with corruption of that magnitude. So again I agree that changing the way the system is loaded is desirable, but like you I'm short on ideas.
 
Last edited:
Top