Is it time for change?
- Thread starter ShiftYa
- Start date
JoeH
Well-Known Member
Clubs decide every year
I think if Geezer was going to step down, he would've done by now. The reality is, he reportedly fundraises the majority of the funding for the Senior Footballers through various businessmen and Armagh supporters. If he goes, Armagh county board will have to generate the difference.
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
The clubs do what they like
Peter grimes
Well-Known Member
“The reality is……he reportedly”
The whole situation is farcical. As it is in most counties and many clubs.
With McGeeney it is even worse as there are factions who can harbour no praise/criticism of him. How many people these factions represent I cannot say but they are a lot more vocal than others who would like more light and less heat in the debate.
The position around what coaches are paid, who pays them and whether that funding would still be available if a different coaching team was in place is in itself laughable, but now, in this debate it is being used (on multiple occasions by multiple people) to blur the analysis of whether the manager or management team should be retained or dismissed.
There is a theory that coaches are not paid. It not a theory with much basis any more. But we continue the laughable pretence. Why?
There is a theory that we are a membership democracy and that club members talk to their club delegate who then votes in line with the view on the ground in their club. There is no real evidence to support that theory and even less evidence if we were to consider whether club members and maybe even delegates are acting on an informed basis. If it is on an informed basis can anyone tell me what the real world figures are for how much the management team are being paid, the wider cost of running a team, how this is funded and how much of this funding would “dry up” and not be replaceable if alternative management were in place?
How else could anyone make a decision on this if they are not being informed?
But we will end up back where this started. Someone who wants Geezer gone will argue that he is bleeding the county dry with no real figures to back it up and someone who can hear no criticism of the man will respond with a report that McGeeney is fundamental to all fund raising and nobody else could do this, again with no figures, just reports.
As I said, Laughable. But as long as we can keep the pretence going sure that is all that matters.
JoeH
Well-Known Member
I don't believe any county and most certainly no club details the expenses a manager//coach receives
The mechanism of a club delegate voting based on what their club executive decision is enshrined in the official guide. Is that laughable?
There are always going to be opposing views put forward - that happens in all parts of society and especially where/when voting takes place (in this part of the island we know that all to well)
ShiftYa
Well-Known Member
So the the entire county is at McGeeneys mercy?
If he goes half the squad won’t play for the county, they’re only loyal to him.
If he leaves the team won’t be able to fund itself throwing the county’s finances into turmoil.
If that’s the case, which I don’t believe it is, we’re heading straight off the edge of a proverbial cliff and no one’s bothered enough to hit the breaks.
FearArdMhacha
Member
If the most compelling argument for a manager is that he can fundraise well then were all doomed. If he would withdraw that then he’s no Armagh man. I think financially we would be as secure as we would be with or without him. I think the time is up because I don’t see us improving any longer and the inability to get over the line in tight games, after our tactics making it overly tight. Confidence within the group not there either. It depends also on who we can get in. I dont have the answers there but I really think things need to be freshened. But they wont. I’ll support on and hope to be wrong because there will be no change
Like all Peter, we're only hearing chinese whispers. If I didn't mention reportedly - People would have the noose out for misinformation. I've heard this multiple times from many different people involved at different levels and capacities. McGeeney bankrolls Armagh with self-raised funds. There's no smoke without fire, however truth may lie at different extremities. In my opinion, it should be a vote through clubs. Players will not vote against the only man they've played IC football under (for the majority of the squad) and an Armagh legend. It should be taken out of their hands. Potentially with the clubs liasing with their IC footballers in private to gain their sentiment.
Here is a question - given that any manager can leave at any time (especially at the end of the season) -
What contingency planning is done by the County Board, for example have they sounded out any potential replacements?
If Geezer decides to leave - or the County Board decides to make a change - do we start scrambling around in panic mode for a new manager or are we already in a position where we have a shortlist of potential managers from which we can choose?
What contingency planning is done by the County Board, for example have they sounded out any potential replacements?
If Geezer decides to leave - or the County Board decides to make a change - do we start scrambling around in panic mode for a new manager or are we already in a position where we have a shortlist of potential managers from which we can choose?
Big Jim
Well-Known Member
On the issue of finances and financials. Who funds who and who funds what. Trying to be clever and use fancy phrases doesn't disguise the fact that accusations of impropriety are being banded about and some who proclaim to be more astute than others would need to be careful.
The county board and indeed clubs must every year lodge an audited copy of accounts with relevant bodies (CB in the case of clubs, HQ for counties and PSNI for counties and clubs as far as I'm aware). These get trawled through for discrepancies and particularly in the six counties to ensure everything complies with the clubs act and prevention of money laundering.
Talking of covert payments and underhanded income from various sources would be deemed as laundering. Talking of theories, reportedly fundraising or laughable pretence, is directly making accusations of practices that are illegal in all walk of life or business.
Do you get to see your bank branch breakdown of accounts?
When was the last time you saw the accounts of your local Tesco or Lidl?
Is the swimming or tennis club you attend publicly publishing their accounts widely for all to inspect?
What about the business you work for? Do you know what their income actually is and what they have in the bank?
No? Does that mean that there are underhanded activity at play.
Just a few but there are hundreds if not thousands who keep those things "vague".
Before anyone says "aye but they're different and everyone knows where their income comes from!" Really? Where is the evidence that what you "think" you know is real? Oh yeah it's in their accounts!
Does Geezer self fund? I don't know. Does Geezer bring in large amount of finance to the county? I don't know. Does the county fundraise well without him? I don't know. What about if he left? I don't know. I do know though that we'd have to find out. I also know that the Athletic Grounds were built and funded in a time before he was manager. The fund raising committee at that time must have been good. I don't know if they would be now or going forward. but I doubt they'd fail, although that is based on nothing other than a hope and feeling. No evidence.
Speculation. Great isn't it on social media? Sure who cares if you're right or wrong? Just say what you like. It doesn't matter as long as you think you support "the boys!" Some just think they are entitled to know everything. Many on here are active with their clubs and therefore well informed or at least in a position to know what the club is at. Strangely those same people stay quiet over these things. They can regularly be seen holding their head in their hands in exasperation at the nonsense.
If you really need to know. In fact if you want to know, you can make a request through your club secretary, as a member, to know what the state of these things are. Even about the county. Records are a matter of public interest. Kinda spoils theorising on a forum having actual facts doesn't it!!
The county board and indeed clubs must every year lodge an audited copy of accounts with relevant bodies (CB in the case of clubs, HQ for counties and PSNI for counties and clubs as far as I'm aware). These get trawled through for discrepancies and particularly in the six counties to ensure everything complies with the clubs act and prevention of money laundering.
Talking of covert payments and underhanded income from various sources would be deemed as laundering. Talking of theories, reportedly fundraising or laughable pretence, is directly making accusations of practices that are illegal in all walk of life or business.
Do you get to see your bank branch breakdown of accounts?
When was the last time you saw the accounts of your local Tesco or Lidl?
Is the swimming or tennis club you attend publicly publishing their accounts widely for all to inspect?
What about the business you work for? Do you know what their income actually is and what they have in the bank?
No? Does that mean that there are underhanded activity at play.
Just a few but there are hundreds if not thousands who keep those things "vague".
Before anyone says "aye but they're different and everyone knows where their income comes from!" Really? Where is the evidence that what you "think" you know is real? Oh yeah it's in their accounts!
Does Geezer self fund? I don't know. Does Geezer bring in large amount of finance to the county? I don't know. Does the county fundraise well without him? I don't know. What about if he left? I don't know. I do know though that we'd have to find out. I also know that the Athletic Grounds were built and funded in a time before he was manager. The fund raising committee at that time must have been good. I don't know if they would be now or going forward. but I doubt they'd fail, although that is based on nothing other than a hope and feeling. No evidence.
Speculation. Great isn't it on social media? Sure who cares if you're right or wrong? Just say what you like. It doesn't matter as long as you think you support "the boys!" Some just think they are entitled to know everything. Many on here are active with their clubs and therefore well informed or at least in a position to know what the club is at. Strangely those same people stay quiet over these things. They can regularly be seen holding their head in their hands in exasperation at the nonsense.
If you really need to know. In fact if you want to know, you can make a request through your club secretary, as a member, to know what the state of these things are. Even about the county. Records are a matter of public interest. Kinda spoils theorising on a forum having actual facts doesn't it!!
Armagh_paul
Well-Known Member
I don't think I can stand this sh*t anymore. As Peter said there is nothing substantiated and we are talking about things none of us know anything about. Or perhaps there is someone that does know but will not talk about it.
If there are people within the county board or management or wherever attempting to hold Armagh football to ransom then I would rather we didn't win an All Ireland. Supporters and clubs determine what is right for the county.
If there are people within the county board or management or wherever attempting to hold Armagh football to ransom then I would rather we didn't win an All Ireland. Supporters and clubs determine what is right for the county.
gael_force_orchard
Well-Known Member
gael_force_orchard
Well-Known Member
ARMAGH clubs will decide whether Kieran McGeeney remains as manager for another season.
The Irish News understands that a meeting of the county’s clubs was hosted by the Armagh County Board last Monday night at which a full and frank discussion of the 2023 season took place. The upshot of that meeting was that delegates were asked to return to their clubs and discuss the merits of the current management. They will reconvene (probably within the next fortnight) and vote on whether Mullaghbawn native McGeeney should continue as Orchard county bainisteoir.
With nine seasons behind him, McGeeney is Ireland’s longest-serving manager.
The 2002 All-Ireland-winning captain guided Armagh from Division Three to Division One and, despite relegation to the second tier this season, the Orchardmen came agonisingly close to make a definitive Championship breakthrough.
Armagh beat Antrim, Cavan and then Down to reach their first Ulster Championship final since 2008 and took on Anglo-Celt Cup holders Derry at Clones. Despite falling behind to a fortuitous Brendan Rogers goal, Armagh battled back and came within a whisker of winning before the Oak Leafers forced extra-time and then a penalty shootout. With goalkeeper Odhran Lynch outstanding, they won to retain their title.
In the wake of that disappointment, Armagh’s form dipped in the subsequent All-Ireland group phase and they scraped past Westmeath and lost to Tyrone before producing arguably the best display of the McGeeney era to beat 2022 All-Ireland finalists Galway in Carrick-on-Shannon.
Armagh progressed to a second All-Ireland quarter-final in succession with that win and their front-foot football against Galway raised hopes that a semi-final was within their grasp. They met Monaghan at Croke Park but lacked the attacking intent they had displayed a fortnight previously and the Farney County prevailed on a penalties – the third Championship shootout in succession that Armagh have lost.
The 2023 season was a tale of what might have been for McGeeney and his Armagh side. There has been criticism of his team’s inability to get over the line in big games and of McGeeney’s style of play but it is understood that the Orchard county players remain united behind their manager and want him to remain in the role he has held since 2015.
McGeeney is prepared to stay on for another season and the Armagh clubs will decide if that is to be the case.
The Irish News understands that a meeting of the county’s clubs was hosted by the Armagh County Board last Monday night at which a full and frank discussion of the 2023 season took place. The upshot of that meeting was that delegates were asked to return to their clubs and discuss the merits of the current management. They will reconvene (probably within the next fortnight) and vote on whether Mullaghbawn native McGeeney should continue as Orchard county bainisteoir.
With nine seasons behind him, McGeeney is Ireland’s longest-serving manager.
The 2002 All-Ireland-winning captain guided Armagh from Division Three to Division One and, despite relegation to the second tier this season, the Orchardmen came agonisingly close to make a definitive Championship breakthrough.
Armagh beat Antrim, Cavan and then Down to reach their first Ulster Championship final since 2008 and took on Anglo-Celt Cup holders Derry at Clones. Despite falling behind to a fortuitous Brendan Rogers goal, Armagh battled back and came within a whisker of winning before the Oak Leafers forced extra-time and then a penalty shootout. With goalkeeper Odhran Lynch outstanding, they won to retain their title.
In the wake of that disappointment, Armagh’s form dipped in the subsequent All-Ireland group phase and they scraped past Westmeath and lost to Tyrone before producing arguably the best display of the McGeeney era to beat 2022 All-Ireland finalists Galway in Carrick-on-Shannon.
Armagh progressed to a second All-Ireland quarter-final in succession with that win and their front-foot football against Galway raised hopes that a semi-final was within their grasp. They met Monaghan at Croke Park but lacked the attacking intent they had displayed a fortnight previously and the Farney County prevailed on a penalties – the third Championship shootout in succession that Armagh have lost.
The 2023 season was a tale of what might have been for McGeeney and his Armagh side. There has been criticism of his team’s inability to get over the line in big games and of McGeeney’s style of play but it is understood that the Orchard county players remain united behind their manager and want him to remain in the role he has held since 2015.
McGeeney is prepared to stay on for another season and the Armagh clubs will decide if that is to be the case.
Peter grimes
Well-Known Member
I never said that any county/club did publish this detail. But without it being published how can anybody say that informed decisions are made?
This is especially relevant when we are told of reports of what management are paid or what they contribute to fundraising. It’s all hearsay.
It is laughable to pretend that the payments don’t exist or that informed decisions are made.
If the the structure is that the delegate votes based on advices of the club committee and that the club committee reflects the majority opinion within the club then show me what information ordinary club members are given?
Calm down Big Jim, I was not remotely saying this is illegal. Its merely using contacts to gain sponsorship for a county team (which is how every team operates). McGeeney has excelled in this regard. In any sense, this was a compliment to him irregardless of peoples thoughts about his management style/success.
Peter grimes
Well-Known Member
Why mention it all? What concrete info are you working on?
This “no smoke without fire” is available to both sides of the argument. Neither side is providing any light. Only heat. There is plenty of smoke that Geezer is paid huge money. There is plenty of smoke that without Geezer there would be no money to pay anyone.
I voted in this thread. I voted against McGeeney getting another year. I will still be there if he is still in charge. My reason for voting “no” isn’t to do with money, potential retirements or popularity amongst the players. It certainly isn’t to do with players being excluded or more broadly team selections. I think Geezers record on all these points is decent to good. My issue is tactical. Both in general setup and game time changes. I think we should be led by someone at the top of that particular game.
I agree .. I’m not anti mcgeeney but the time has come for a new man.
The changein the team selection before both the ulster final and the Monaghan game where tactically wrong… he selected a team to stay in a game and hopefully drag out a result instead of going out and beating the opposition.. The only two teams in Ireland that we probably should use those tactics are in the final on Sunday, we should be backing ourselves to beat every other team.
But if he’s still there I’ll be still there every Saturday or Sunday that they play
gael_force_orchard
Well-Known Member
You can have an opinion on change without resorting to being a ****.