League 2021

[Seamy]

Who do we want in and out? Let’s be honest McGeeney isn’t going anywhere so keep the Geezer out comments to that thread.

for me
In
Barry McCambridge
Cian McConville
McQuillan
OHanlon

out
Sheridan
Maybe Paddy Burns
Murnin. Can’t stay fit at all

Can't agree with this entirely. Paddy Burns was the most consistent defender we had before the Covid Pandemic. Nullified Derry's Enda Lynn who was essentially one of their main threats. Kept Brennan to 2 points yesterday, one of which was when the game was over, other than that Brennan never got near it. And McBrearty kicked on point straight after coming on. A fresh set of legs against a defender after playing 55 minutes in an annihilation.

Sheridan was poor yesterday and perhaps is getting past it but he's a trojan worker. The same names on this forum that are calling for his head today were full of praise for him two weeks ago.

I think Jarly Óg is possibly not cut out for this level at the minute. He doesn't seem to have the head for it and goes missing when the chips are down.

If we're calling for defenders to be chopped and changed, James Morgan, who is a great man pushing forward is not excelling at the day job. Every single game we play it feels like he could be sent off and it's a worrying sign. It's the same with Jemar too in terms of liability to get sent off.

There were positives in terms of players for 2021 yesterday. Jamie is improving and needs more football but he'll thrive in Div 1. Aidan Forker and Rian the same and Turbitt who showed so well when he came off the bench will be a positive asset.

As for new faces coming in, I've versed my opinion on the Goalkeeper situation on a number of occasions here but in terms of availability of those lads or their willingness to commit, I don't know.

Given the condensed championship this year and the lack of club football, some names are being thrown in on the back of 1/2 good performances max so it's difficult to gauge how good these lads actually are. And that could be more ammunition for the negative posters here when the lads they've recommended come in and maybe aren't up to it.

It won't be long til the league recommences so we'll lick our wounds from yesterday and go again.

 

[Armaghball]

Issue with our team at the minute is that most of the players simply aren’t good enough to be competing at the highest level. Don’t get me wrong we definitely have the ability to be on the level of a Roscommon, Meath etc, yoyoing between Division 1 and 2, but the harsh reality is that outside of the 2 O’Neills, Forker, Clarke when he’s at his best, Grugan and possibly Niall Grimley and Soupy, none of our players would get near a top level team. Burns and Turbitt have plenty of potential but obviously not there yet.

That’s not a slight on anyone but just a realistic assessment. Don’t get me wrong the rest are all good lads but we won’t be winning All Irelands or even Ulsters with them.

Out of the lads mentioned who aren’t on the panel, who would realistically improve us? McCambridge and Heffron in defence possibly. Ciaron O’Hanlon, McParland and Crealy are as good or better than what we have and Ross McQullian deserves a chance if he’s home for good. But realistically the lad’s mentioned either can’t or won’t commit which is fair enough and none of them are going to come in and save us.

As others have said, our club scene is far far worse than it was 20 years ago or whatever. Cross outside the 2 O’Neills have no one worth raving about (couple of the younger lads look good but not going to transform a county team just yet), Maghery are a decent side but again no one who’s going to make the difference. Outside of that, Clann Eireann still havent kicked on from all those underage wonder teams, Killeavy/Dromintee are improving but still miles off. The Og’s, Harps and Clanns are frankly embarrassing for clubs with their pick and history. Overall the only club teams good enough to be really called senior at the minute are Cross and Maghery and even at that, both would stuggle in other counties.

Unfortunately it looks like Donaghy’s time is coming to an end, if he has been any way fit surely he would have been playing in the championship. Time to stop relying on him anyway to be honest. Murnin at this stage is a total write off, embarrassing tbh that the lad can’t keep himself fit, doesn’t seem to have the mentality for it which is a shame as he is an excellent forward.

On McGeeney, I’ve always supported him but am beginning to think he’s taken us as far as he can. The same issues have been going on for several years and he either can’t or won’t fix them. We still can’t win our own kickout, yes Blaine has been poor at times but he gets very few options and yesterday we were last to every break.

In fairness, we at least tried to solve the issue of giving away so many fouls, however the idea of not bothering to tackle at all probably isn’t the best...... As others have said, even the part of our side we thought was going well, our forward line were totally outclassed yesterday. What Jamie Clarke, one of the most talented and dangerous forwards in Ireland was doing on his own 45 yesterday is beyond me.

I think on balance, McGeeney will get another year to see what he can do in Division 1, but it would be a huge shock for us to stay up and barring that and/or winning Ulster, I think next year should be his last.

Anyway, to finish on a positive, young Turbitt was very good when he came on, hopefully gets plenty of league time next year as D1 will bring the lad on a lot.

Lastly, a special mention to Aidan Forker. He has been outstanding for a long time now, roasted Murphy Yesterday I thought. We could probably do with one of him playing in every line of the pitch, player of the year without a doubt.

 

[OneofTwo]

Issue with our team at the minute is that most of the players simply aren’t good enough to be competing at the highest level. Don’t get me wrong we definitely have the ability to be on the level of a Roscommon, Meath etc, yoyoing between Division 1 and 2, but the harsh reality is that outside of the 2 O’Neills, Forker, Clarke when he’s at his best, Grugan and possibly Niall Grimley and Soupy, none of our players would get near a top level team. Burns and Turbitt have plenty of potential but obviously not there yet.

That’s not a slight on anyone but just a realistic assessment. Don’t get me wrong the rest are all good lads but we won’t be winning All Irelands or even Ulsters with them.

Out of the lads mentioned who aren’t on the panel, who would realistically improve us? McCambridge and Heffron in defence possibly. Ciaron O’Hanlon, McParland and Crealy are as good or better than what we have and Ross McQullian deserves a chance if he’s home for good. But realistically the lad’s mentioned either can’t or won’t commit which is fair enough and none of them are going to come in and save us.

As others have said, our club scene is far far worse than it was 20 years ago or whatever. Cross outside the 2 O’Neills have no one worth raving about (couple of the younger lads look good but not going to transform a county team just yet), Maghery are a decent side but again no one who’s going to make the difference. Outside of that, Clann Eireann still havent kicked on from all those underage wonder teams, Killeavy/Dromintee are improving but still miles off. The Og’s, Harps and Clanns are frankly embarrassing for clubs with their pick and history. Overall the only club teams good enough to be really called senior at the minute are Cross and Maghery and even at that, both would stuggle in other counties.

Unfortunately it looks like Donaghy’s time is coming to an end, if he has been any way fit surely he would have been playing in the championship. Time to stop relying on him anyway to be honest. Murnin at this stage is a total write off, embarrassing tbh that the lad can’t keep himself fit, doesn’t seem to have the mentality for it which is a shame as he is an excellent forward.

On McGeeney, I’ve always supported him but am beginning to think he’s taken us as far as he can. The same issues have been going on for several years and he either can’t or won’t fix them. We still can’t win our own kickout, yes Blaine has been poor at times but he gets very few options and yesterday we were last to every break.

In fairness, we at least tried to solve the issue of giving away so many fouls, however the idea of not bothering to tackle at all probably isn’t the best...... As others have said, even the part of our side we thought was going well, our forward line were totally outclassed yesterday. What Jamie Clarke, one of the most talented and dangerous forwards in Ireland was doing on his own 45 yesterday is beyond me.

I think on balance, McGeeney will get another year to see what he can do in Division 1, but it would be a huge shock for us to stay up and barring that and/or winning Ulster, I think next year should be his last.

Anyway, to finish on a positive, young Turbitt was very good when he came on, hopefully gets plenty of league time next year as D1 will bring the lad on a lot.

Lastly, a special mention to Aidan Forker. He has been outstanding for a long time now, roasted Murphy Yesterday I thought. We could probably do with one of him playing in every line of the pitch, player of the year without a doubt.

Agree with all bar the Murnin point. He puts the work in to get himself fit including plenty of prehab. He just has a body that isn’t going to allow him to play I fear which is a shame as he is a fantastic player.

 

[Armaghball]

Agree with all bar the Murnin point. He puts the work in to get himself fit including plenty of prehab. He just has a body that isn’t going to allow him to play I fear which is a shame as he is a fantastic player.

In fairness that was maybe a bit harsh, just very frustrating seeing a lad that’s so talented not playing for us. I’m sure as bad as it is for us it’s far worse for him obviously.

 

[Eireogatron]

I don't think murnins mentality or commitment can be ever called into question. Nobody will be more disappointed than the man himself that he is so injury prone. To keep putting in the work by himself, working to get back injury after injury must be incredibly difficult mentally (don't forget his goal saved our bacon in the marshes last year). During the summer when we were allowed back to do small group training he was up in lismore pitches in Craigavon by himself doing a serious sprint and middle distance session - this is the kind of thing that we as supporters don't always see but should be mindful of.

 

[bcb1]

I don't think murnins mentality or commitment can be ever called into question. Nobody will be more disappointed than the man himself that he is so injury prone. To keep putting in the work by himself, working to get back injury after injury must be incredibly difficult mentally (don't forget his goal saved our bacon in the marshes last year). During the summer when we were allowed back to do small group training he was up in lismore pitches in Craigavon by himself doing a serious sprint and middle distance session - this is the kind of thing that we as supporters don't always see but should be mindful of.

This is not doubted but there has to be serious doubts in his own head if he will ever break through properly. This can have a massive impact on anyone in terms of whether they make it. And to be honest no one could blame the lad if that became the case

 

[Big Jim]

This is not doubted but there has to be serious doubts in his own head if he will ever break through properly. This can have a massive impact on anyone in terms of whether they make it. And to be honest no one could blame the lad if that became the case

So reminiscent of Ronan Clarke. Possibly the best player we never got the full use of because of injury!

 

[Harper1]

This may not exactly answer the question posed but I feel it is an important point.

Armagh need to seriously consider the treatment of 'fringe' players on the county panel. How many of us know of younger players that joined the county panel only to 'opt out' later because they aren't getting any game time. I'm not saying that they must play but we need to ensure that we have a system in place that allows the players that have the potential to play county football to join the county panel and train at that level whilst also getting gametime with their clubs if they aren't yet ready for the county.

This might not be how it used to be done or how other counties do it, but we need an Armagh system that works for us.

Currently we have younger players brought up to the county team, who sit on the bench (if they are lucky enough to make the game day squad) but never kick a competitive ball between January and whenever the county exit the championship. They then return to their clubs, until the next year starts and so it continues. Inevitably some lads opt out as, guess what... most footballers just want to play football.

This tends to result in the most persistant or county focussed younger lads hanging in until they get game time, and they are not necessarily the best.

It's true that the lad that opts out can return a few years later having developed further with their club and maybe stake a claim then but why take that risk. And even if that happens they have missed out on vital county experience.

The solution is to improve the link between the clubs and the county. Let the county players who aren't getting game time play with their clubs. Improve the lines of communication between the county manager, the county players and the club managers. No player should be missing club games unless he is actually getting football at county level.

And before someone says it, yes this is not just an Armagh issue, but as a smaller county we cannot afford to 'lose' good players from our county setup.

A flexible approach is required and our manager is not known to be flexible on this issue, but if he can change his approach he may have a few better options available when he needs them.

 

[mackers]

McQuillan has to be straight back in, if he has actually returned for good - no one confirming that.
.

He has been at home for a couple of months now in the off season Down Under. Going back in January though.

 

[M18]

Think point made by @Harper1 anf others before Is correct
A lot of players being mentioned now have been in there before and most never given a string of games

I think magill will challenge for starting spot on team in nets during next year

Agree on McCambridhe, Higgins, OHanlon Micheal McKenna

would add Sean Irwin from Cullyhanna very tight marker when I saw him last


Some players that have been in Armagh a long time that haven’t made the leap to me are McKay, E Rafferty, McCabe

 

[PatMustard]

Strong, fast, quick thinking players are what the game is all about now. Particularly in the forward line.

Jamie Clarke’s languid style was obvious at times. You have to be lightning fast to offload the ball or you’re closed down. Not singling him out for criticism, as most of our attack(ers) was slow and ponderous.

The game has changed. Even Maurice Fitzgerald would struggle nowadays.

 

[Ard Mhacha Abú]

There's bound to be more players from the Senior Championship teams within the county! Next level up is County.
Best players I've seen in the last 2 years not on the county panel that might be worth a look!

Maghery - Crealey, Higgins, Heavron
Cross - Morris, C McConville, T McConville
Dromintee - Boyle, Martin
Nab - J Grugan
Ogs - Brady, A Duffy
Killeavy - C McConville, O'Hanlon
Madden - Sheridan
Harps - Loughran
C/E - McCambridge

 

[Throwball]

There's bound to be more players from the Senior Championship teams within the county! Next level up is County.
Best players I've seen in the last 2 years not on the county panel that might be worth a look!

Maghery - Crealey, Higgins, Heavron
Cross - Morris, C McConville, T McConville
Dromintee - Boyle, Martin
Nab - J Grugan
Ogs - Brady, A Duffy
Killeavy - C McConville, O'Hanlon
Madden - Sheridan
Harps - Loughran
C/E - McCambridge

I am sure there are good players in intermediate and junior teams too. Armagh could do with a regional championship to get the best of these players playing against senior teams.

 

[bcb1]

I am sure there are good players in intermediate and junior teams too. Armagh could do with a regional championship to get the best of these players playing against senior teams.

I have always said that. 2 divisional teams from each area, add 6 senior teams to the championship and then you have greater exposure. Imagine 2 south Armagh teams, 1 made up of forkhill, mullaghbawn, O Hanlon’s, Lisummon, Shane’s and Cruppen and then the other made up of culloville, Dorsey, Newtown, Whitecross, Clady and Belleeks. 4-5 from each club would make a strong senior team. It can only lead to an improvement. Copy that through the mid and north and then you would have a better championship

 

[armaghlad]

Just to add my thoughts - was astounded by the comments about Murnin. Yes he is plagued with injury but his attitude is top class. He was clearly carrying a niggle of some sort this year but still managed to help drag an awful St Paul’s team to an intermediate final. I think he should definitely sit the league out or at least most of it, focus on club and get as much injury-free game time as possible.

Also I do not understand the constant criticism levelled at Sheridan and P Burns. Sheridan I thought has been more than solid and I thought unlucky to be subbed on Saturday and I know Burns is highly rated by his teammates.

As for the GK issue. I still think Hughes has a place on the panel but needs to be properly challenged. It’s easy to blame goalkeepers on kick out strategies but in reality the outfield players need to be drilled properly and that comes down to management.

I like the idea of regional teams like they have in Kerry, Cork etc but I just don’t see it taking off in Armagh. I’d love to be proved wrong and it should be at least trialled. There are plenty of good players in intermediate and junior football who deserve to showcase their talents at senior level.

 

[PatMustard]

I have always said that. 2 divisional teams from each area, add 6 senior teams to the championship and then you have greater exposure. Imagine 2 south Armagh teams, 1 made up of forkhill, mullaghbawn, O Hanlon’s, Lisummon, Shane’s and Cruppen and then the other made up of culloville, Dorsey, Newtown, Whitecross, Clady and Belleeks. 4-5 from each club would make a strong senior team. It can only lead to an improvement. Copy that through the mid and north and then you would have a better championship

I like that idea. It can only improve players.

How popular is this in Kerry? Are the divisional teams well supported? Do people get behind the concept?

I know people are loyal to their clubs, but just wondered how people would feel about putting up a South Armagh or a North Armagh flag?

 

[bcb1]

I like that idea. It can only improve players.

How popular is this in Kerry? Are the divisional teams well supported? Do people get behind the concept?

I know people are loyal to their clubs, but just wondered how people would feel about putting up a South Armagh or a North Armagh flag?

It is the bedrock of the championship in Kerry and also in cork. Kerry run 2 championships one including the Divisional teams. If you go outside of the few big teams like the Crokes and Tralee the Divisional teams are regularly in Championship finals,

 

[PatMustard]

I didn’t realise but there’s about 9 divisional teams in the Kerry senior championship.

Looking at the Armagh club map, we could fit another 5 in, with something like these amalgamations (based on non senior teams this year).

Clonmore, Ballyhegan, Collegeland, An Port Mor, Tullysaran

Sarsfields, Wolfe Tones, St Paul’s, Clan na Gael, Tir na nOg, Éire Og

Middletown, Keady, Derrynoose, Clady, Newtown

O’Hanlon’s, Mullabrack, Lissummon, Belleek, Whitecross, Carrickcruppen, Shane O’Neills

Cullaville, Forkhill, Corrinshego

 

[Manjet]

Surely we have all been to enough armagh games to see that Sheridan offers us nothing either in defence midfield or forward. McGeeney tried him at CHB for a few games and Laois and Westmeath ran straight down the middle at us and he was out hugging the touchiness ffs he was that close to us in the stand he might as well have a seat. Look i played to Co minor standard in the early 90s so never played county senior football he might be a hard worker and all that but as I have said he offers us little in either direction

 

[Big Jim]

I like that idea. It can only improve players.

How popular is this in Kerry? Are the divisional teams well supported? Do people get behind the concept?

I know people are loyal to their clubs, but just wondered how people would feel about putting up a South Armagh or a North Armagh flag?

Ah here, more flegs!! Man you just court controversy, but to run with yer post, I'd fly a south Armagh fleg to welcome the mid bais' to the north! Us nordie nordies lak everyone hi!!