ragingbull
Well-Known Member
Tyrone vs Armagh will not be televisied & won't be on gaago this weekend
National Football League 2023
- Thread starter Big Jim
- Start date
PatMustard
Well-Known Member
‘How Willie got his buzz back’.
I hope he does. And the rest of us. The drier sod, the warmer days. It might all click into place, in time...
Lemallon
Active Member
An underrated massive moment from the game . 1-4 to 2 points last seconds of first half. Galway get 45. Zero chance of scoring the wind is that strong. Someone and I don’t know who causes the 45 to be moved up to a 90 percent chance free. 4 point lead instead of 5 at half time. An inexcusable lapse in discipline which consistently happens every match. In a 1-8 to 1-6 match every score has to be earned like blood from a stone so u can’t hand them away like this.
Armagh scored one point from a feee Saturday night when a Galway man slipped and touched it on the ground.
Zero personal fouls. Now the ref was part of That as Duffy was 100 percent fouled when he tried to fist the point but it still shows a vast difference in discipline levels between the sides
Armagh scored one point from a feee Saturday night when a Galway man slipped and touched it on the ground.
Zero personal fouls. Now the ref was part of That as Duffy was 100 percent fouled when he tried to fist the point but it still shows a vast difference in discipline levels between the sides
Bringyourboots
Well-Known Member
I’m usually reasonably glass half full with a tiny hint of realism when it comes to following Armagh. Have to admit I struggled to even find a glass let alone half fill it with anything positive from Saturday. I have tried to be fair, but am an advocate of the current management accepting that sharp changes in styles and performance were down to moving between divisions, lack of squad depth and development. I thought what we were doing presently was adding another facet to our game, a bit of tightness, game management or nous to edge us closer to competing with the very best, at the highest level when it would matter most. Tweaks were needed not complete overhaul. At this stage I am questioning my own judgement and that of those on the sideline. A futile exercise as my judgement doesn’t count and management will be there to the end of the campaign at least. They have, in my view earned that right. I am not calling on a change of management more for management to change. I like how Donaghy speaks and in truth could warm to him as possibly taking over the reins in due course.
Last year we averaged around 15 points a game, conceding around 14, this year we are on about 13 both for and against – small margins. Victory on Sunday will also see us finish on the same points tally as last year. On the whole scorings are reduced for everyone this year so on that basis we are not hugely different than last year apart from style and energy which we feed off as supporters. Could you argue the change in style is a success? I think not but, like everything, the answer is probably somewhere in between and that is what management must change.
As a county we have never been good at holding the ball and being patient, it always leads to lapses of concentration and simple errors – the panic and unease grows in the crowd and you can feel it. The defensive system has us tighter but is asking too much of our forwards. It was frustrating to see our best attackers furthest back in this system at times so when we do break the ball is less likely to be with a “kicker” and having run the length of the field the chances of making a poor shot/pass choice are going to increase. We need to break the cycle of taking a lead, cruising and then shipping a clutch of scores that changes the game momentum. We have played and coached our way into a relegation battle which we don’t need, could have avoided. If Sunday does not go well it may set us back several years. Blame can be shared across the board and the tight knit nature of this group suggests it will.
So ,to find the positives, which we need to ahead of the next game. Most have been covered but well overshadowed by the justifiable frustrations – it is right and fair that questions are asked but they should be supported with some context. This is our best squad in some years, Mackin and Murnin were excellent, kick out options going long were improved, we can control a game for long spells and the simple fact we know most players can be better than they have been. The Cumiskey score was an example of what we can do and should try and replicate more frequently.
The biggest positive is a potential one. If we win, the potential boost we get from an away victory against a team we would see as our bitterest rivals could be a real springboard into the championship and beyond.
Our backs are against the wall and that seems to be where our best football has been played this year so we should be in for a hell of a game.
Last year we averaged around 15 points a game, conceding around 14, this year we are on about 13 both for and against – small margins. Victory on Sunday will also see us finish on the same points tally as last year. On the whole scorings are reduced for everyone this year so on that basis we are not hugely different than last year apart from style and energy which we feed off as supporters. Could you argue the change in style is a success? I think not but, like everything, the answer is probably somewhere in between and that is what management must change.
As a county we have never been good at holding the ball and being patient, it always leads to lapses of concentration and simple errors – the panic and unease grows in the crowd and you can feel it. The defensive system has us tighter but is asking too much of our forwards. It was frustrating to see our best attackers furthest back in this system at times so when we do break the ball is less likely to be with a “kicker” and having run the length of the field the chances of making a poor shot/pass choice are going to increase. We need to break the cycle of taking a lead, cruising and then shipping a clutch of scores that changes the game momentum. We have played and coached our way into a relegation battle which we don’t need, could have avoided. If Sunday does not go well it may set us back several years. Blame can be shared across the board and the tight knit nature of this group suggests it will.
So ,to find the positives, which we need to ahead of the next game. Most have been covered but well overshadowed by the justifiable frustrations – it is right and fair that questions are asked but they should be supported with some context. This is our best squad in some years, Mackin and Murnin were excellent, kick out options going long were improved, we can control a game for long spells and the simple fact we know most players can be better than they have been. The Cumiskey score was an example of what we can do and should try and replicate more frequently.
The biggest positive is a potential one. If we win, the potential boost we get from an away victory against a team we would see as our bitterest rivals could be a real springboard into the championship and beyond.
Our backs are against the wall and that seems to be where our best football has been played this year so we should be in for a hell of a game.
Big Jim
Well-Known Member
'bull stop getting so hung up on refs. We don't want or need anything from them. If they do their job, then we should be able to do ours. Turn up with the attitude that nothing is gonna stop us winning, hoping tyrone do the same and may the best team win. We shouldn't want "anything" given to us.
Refs are not biased against us no matter how much we wish we could convince ourselves they are. Almost every supporter group in the country thinks a ref is out to get them. We can't all be right.
Everyone on this forum (I think I'm right in saying) sees mistakes our players make, our management make, our kit suppliers make, our caterers make (no idea why I said that one) so why is it that we cannot say and accept they made a mistake. Simple. Not corruption, not bias. Look at what @niall1980 just posted above
Look at what @Lemallon posted about the 45 and the time between our scores in the second half. None of that was the fault of the ref. In fact if he was that bad or biased, he'd have ignored the slip and touch on the ground.
We can win this and we can survive in division one. Not enough for everybody.........ok!! But heck it's a great start considering the doom and gloom of the last couple of days.
If you (this is to anyone, not aimed at 'bull) want a dose of reality, have think about what that family are going through down in Keady. That's a proper cause for gut wrenching pain. This is sport and Monday will follow Sunday whatever the result. So enjoy the gripping, but keep it realistic
Armaghniac
Well-Known Member
This was the one for the BBC to stream.
Being a ref is pretty difficult, we don't always see things the same way, and that is with the benefit of video review.
As for caterers, the coffee in the Athletic grounds is not in the first division by any stretch of the imagination.
Big Jim
Well-Known Member
Right that's it Sybil!!!! No more paying the licence fee. Take it and go to the bingo!! (Go on. Say it in a John Cleese voice. Ya know ya want ta!!)
I bloody knew it wasn't just me that spat out that pish............ eh dishwater!! Thank you
Rufus T Firefly
Well-Known Member
Maybe so, although my take was that a lot of the criticism was linking the two, i.e. unwatchable football and poor results. From that I thought there was a significant number of posts which escalated into calling for management to be changed.
My sense is that management have seen how the style of football last year came up short and are trying something different and I'm convinced that if the 'new style' was successful, then supporters would be prepared to accept it. Just my opinion.
I thought he was taken off at half time. Frankly he’s been anonymous most of the year.
The commentator on TV suggested it might have been from the poor kick pass
RLHB
New Member
Yes I agree very poor this year! Don’t come for me but I think they play better as a team when he’s not playing, and not all individuals on a pitch. Maybe they rely on him too much. But he’s not the same quality as last year
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Rufus T Firefly
Well-Known Member
If others will forgive the soccer comparison, it is interesting that you mention Sir Alex Ferguson. I think there is a general consensus that if Manchester United had not won the 1990 FA Cup, he'd have been out of a job. He sailed very close to the wind in the drawn final and replaced Leighton with Les Sealey for the replay and the rest as they say is history. Fine lines. The fine lines that I was referring to in my post that you quoted. There can be a lot of luck involved and it would not be too much of a stretch to say that we could by now be pushing for a NFL Final place and the questions around his approach - placing the collective above the individual - would be under a lot less scrutiny.
The reference to getting the buzz back suggests to me that your primary motivation is to be entertained first and foremost and there's nothing wrong with that. However can I respectfully say that such an approach in the pressurised environment of modern day intercounty football, with budgets in the hundreds of thousands of pounds, and inter county futures potentially on the line, means that the reality is that results will take precedence.
Peter grimes
Well-Known Member
On the second and more important point I think you are factually accurate but I think you are accurately describing a dangerous path. The adults of tomorrow will follow winning teams but they will follow winning teams that play entertaining sports. we could be killing our game. At some point there will have to be a wake up call.
On the first point the Ferguson comparison has limited read across to McGeeney. Ferguson was in his 4th season and may have been sacked after a poor run in the league and they beat Forrest a cup match and it saved his bacon. We are way past that timeline with McGeeney. I’m not calling for him to be sacked, just some realism in our assessment.
Fingers crossed that the summer leads to a more affirmative assessment. Might need Mark Robbins to knock one in at the Dalton end
Rufus T Firefly
Well-Known Member
Your first point above is a much wider discussion than Armagh and Geezer. Galway played more defensively on Saturday evening than Armagh did - in my opinion - and won the match. They are seeking to fine tune a gameplan with the ultimate prize as their aim. That has barely got a mention in this discussion.
The comparison between Ferguson and Geezer was to underline the point I was making originally about fine lines, not about their respective career prospects. Ferguson got away with playing Leighton in the drawn game despite his form being a real cause for concern, and he got out of jail with it as United rescued a draw. For the purposes of this discussion, Geezer is falling on the wrong side of these fine lines which is resulting in narrow defeats rather than narrow wins and he is now drawing down criticism of his approach, as many are linking the style of play with what is now a backs to the wall relegation battle.
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
Since when was Rian O'Neill not in the team for Armagh to be playing better without him
Was going to say the same thing. Pretty sure he had played every minute of every game
Gaelic football, in general, at the moment is hard to watch. It isn’t just us. It seems harder for us because of how we played last year
Mickey Gormley
Active Member
Such tripe
Diarmi
Well-Known Member
Two things;
1. Criticism of the management is not the same as calling for them to be removed.
2. Lose the "Sir", that shite gives me the scour.
William Of Orange
Well-Known Member
Not sure about wanting to be entertained, the buzz I’m talking about was the connection between the team and fans that we experienced last summer , that comes from belief , a team playing to their strengths and fulfilling their potential leaving and it all behind, I’m not getting it this year , anyone at the matches can hear the grumbling in the crowd ,maybe the team has peaked last year and that’s our lot , but I feel there’s a bit more there , fine lines are apart of elite sport , however we have fallen short on the fine lines this year which suggests the strategy is wrong , strategy comes from management and they need to adjust , currently we aren’t winning and if the results are taking precedence then that is falling well short as well .