Top drawer stuff this
Ulster Championship 2024
- Thread starter ragingbull
- Start date
Ard Mhacha 13
Well-Known Member
This is a great chance for both teams to get momentum, I'd like us to show we learned from the experience from last year, I'd like to see us out Donegal under pressure, we are not far off everything clicking into place, but also not far away from disaster, I'd have mccambridge start instead of McGrane, and maybe oisin O'Neill in full forward, we have all the ingredients to do very well and go far, we have pace in turbo, Conaty, jarly og, mcquillan, long range shooters in the 2 oneills and Campbell, all round players like Kelly, conor O'Neill, ciaran Mackin, McElroy, and height in 2 oneills, murnin, crealy, jarly og, and kick passers in forker and grugan, we have a good bench and plenty of options in all positions, let's play with confidence and not fear and if we do that, I believe we will beat donegal by 3 points
Patrick-Armagh
Well-Known Member
That would require a level of joined up thinking that's beyond some in the GAA.
MrMaguire2002
Well-Known Member
If mentioning all the ingredients we can't leave out Aidan Forker - that left boot!
Sean Og
Well-Known Member
MrMaguire2002
Well-Known Member
The team may not change at all, and in fairness if it does it'll be one or two changes maximum.
The 15 I'd love to see start:
1. Blaine Hughes
2. Paddy Burns
3. Aaron McKay (McGrane will probably start in the FB line)
4. Aidan Forker
5. Ciaran Mackin
6. Greg McCabe (Forker will probably start at 7)
7. Jarly Og Burns
8. Rian O'Neill
9. Ben Crealey
10. Jason Duffy (Soupy)
11. Rory Grugan
12. Conor O'Neill (Joe McElroy)
13. Andy Murnin
14. Oisin O'Neill (Oisin Conaty likely to start in the FF line)
15. Conor Turbitt
That's the team I'd like to see start.
However, I'd be surprised if Kieran drops one or more of Peter McGrane, Joe McElroy, Soupy, & Oisin Conaty.
Both Oisin and Conor O'Neill might have to watch from the bench until called on.
I'd definitely keep Soupy as an impact sub. If Grugan isn't in it for the first 20 minutes I'd be looking to change him also.
The 15 I'd love to see start:
1. Blaine Hughes
2. Paddy Burns
3. Aaron McKay (McGrane will probably start in the FB line)
4. Aidan Forker
5. Ciaran Mackin
6. Greg McCabe (Forker will probably start at 7)
7. Jarly Og Burns
8. Rian O'Neill
9. Ben Crealey
10. Jason Duffy (Soupy)
11. Rory Grugan
12. Conor O'Neill (Joe McElroy)
13. Andy Murnin
14. Oisin O'Neill (Oisin Conaty likely to start in the FF line)
15. Conor Turbitt
That's the team I'd like to see start.
However, I'd be surprised if Kieran drops one or more of Peter McGrane, Joe McElroy, Soupy, & Oisin Conaty.
Both Oisin and Conor O'Neill might have to watch from the bench until called on.
I'd definitely keep Soupy as an impact sub. If Grugan isn't in it for the first 20 minutes I'd be looking to change him also.
Seen an interesting comment somewhere that said it was good to see no tickets on general sale and that they went to the clubs to stop the "bandwagoners".
I'm a season ticket holder this last few years and I genuinely haven't missed a match McKenna Cup, League and Championship in that time, and I can safely say that are very people from my own club attend the vast majority of these games. And the club has totally sold ould the allocation and could have sold a lot more.
What I'm really getting at, is that putting tickets through the clubs is just another way to get "bandwagoners", no different to how general sale would be, I really don't see how it's any different.
For the record, I'm totally fine with "bandwagoners" going to matches. The bigger the crowd, the better the atmosphere and hopefully
the better the spectacle.
But there is undoubtedly a group of people who aren't necessarily involved with a club nor have a season ticket but are certainly loyal and still missing out. There needs to be some sort of loyalty scheme through ticketmaster that caters to these people.
I'm a season ticket holder this last few years and I genuinely haven't missed a match McKenna Cup, League and Championship in that time, and I can safely say that are very people from my own club attend the vast majority of these games. And the club has totally sold ould the allocation and could have sold a lot more.
What I'm really getting at, is that putting tickets through the clubs is just another way to get "bandwagoners", no different to how general sale would be, I really don't see how it's any different.
For the record, I'm totally fine with "bandwagoners" going to matches. The bigger the crowd, the better the atmosphere and hopefully
the better the spectacle. But there is undoubtedly a group of people who aren't necessarily involved with a club nor have a season ticket but are certainly loyal and still missing out. There needs to be some sort of loyalty scheme through ticketmaster that caters to these people.
This ended up a bit longer than I intended, nice to see that I'm echoing some earlier posts.
Tyrone got a fair bit of success against Donegal by carrying the ball down the wings and laying it off to a man cutting in from the sideline or to an inside runner, Derry used a similar tactic with Ethan Doherty often the ball carrier. We have players who are capable of that same approach, though I don’t think the forward unit who started against Down or Fermanagh are clinical enough to get those scores under pressure. Soupy should come off the bench and Turbitt could be dropped, he's shown very little to warrant starting the final. Conaty's pace and ability to carry the ball could be a useful weapon against a packed defence. He's suited to being that ball carrier who creates a yard of space for a shooter on the layoff, and I'd like to see him pick up McHugh. Jarly og could be replaced with a similar style of player who could perform better than he has the last two games, either Duffy, Conor O'Neill, or even McQuillan. Two or three changes are needed in the forward line to improve on what we have seen so far in Ulster.
We will likely use that three quarter style press on their kickouts, similar to the Derry final last year, where we drop back to their 45 and let them take the short kickout before pushing up and starting the press. That would keep us safe from the long kickout threat and force them into a tiring running game. Hopefully we can find opportunities to go aggressively man to man on their kickout and when they have the ball deep in their own half, similar to Mayo in the Connacht final, because Patton or the sub goalkeeper won't be comfortable progressing the ball all the way forward into our half. It would be beautiful to see us force McGuinness into being caught with his own keeper off the line. They have some quality, press resistant, ball playing defenders in McHugh, Mogan and McGonagle so this would be a difficult task which may not work if we do try it.
Our defensive structure can be a concern even though it has been mostly good so far this year. The team can be naive and easily manipulated at times, like they were in the league final when off the ball runners dragged us around and created an ocean of space at the top of the D for Donegal to kick easy points. We can't afford to do that again. Tyrone kept their big men Kennedy and Kilpatrick around the centre of the 45 to clog that space up and force Donegal down the wings. Rian and Crealey could do a similar role there if they are able to hold their ground and aren't asked to do a deeper sweeping job. Forker was particularly poor for this in the league final when he played centre half back, often distracted and out of position when they passed it back to the shooter, so keeping him out of that area would be better for us.
Donegal's speedy ball carriers will target our forwards in the defensive structure, so don't be surprised to see McGeeney start a defender in the forwards to counter that. It might look like we wouldn't be "going for it" if we take that approach, but realistically they have shown only a few ways of getting scores and if we have the tools to completely shut down one of their most profitable attacking tactics for most of the game, why wouldn't we do that. Then if you couple that with how poor our forwards have been so far, it seems very reasonable to take off a Turbitt who likely won't score anyway for a defender or more physical forward who's stronger on the defensive side and is also capable of chipping over a point if they find themselves in that position. I wouldn't favour this approach if our forwards had shown a capability of racking up a big score, but if they can't do that against Fermanagh or Down, they're not likely to do it against Donegal in a final.
The slow build up style suits Rafferty in goals. It would take some cojones to make that switch considering the Derry game and Blaine not doing much wrong so far, but I think it could be the winning of the game. Tyrone's defense got 5 scores from play as Donegal tracked their forwards leaving space for the support runners when they could break the line. Mattie Donnelly was able to pick up a few easily balls around the middle, carry it forward and swing it over from 40m out or be fouled and win a free kick. Rafferty is the man for that job if our normal shooters are tightly marked. McGuinness might well have a plan in place for him starting, but he couldn't have been a major focus for them when he's only back from injury. If he were brought in as a last minute change it has potential to upset their rhythm and it could give us a huge boost with the crowd if he kicks a score. I’d like to see Rafferty start with a more attack minded defence, as it’ll be mainly group defending anyway and our defenders will need to be capable of progressing the ball forward and tagging on a score if they find themselves in the right bit of space. Rafferty could also be a very impactful sub to bring on in the last 20 minutes if it isn't going our way.
Overall, they've been forced into showing a lot more of their hand than we have, so we should have a big advantage there going into the game. With the Tyrone game being so tight, it's unlikely that McGuinness has been working on some surprise tactic over winter which they've held back for us in the final. It's more likely that they'll have largely the same plan as the Tyrone game and hope to improve on their execution. On the other hand, we haven't really changed the starting team too much since the start of the league, so we could bring an element of surprise if we choose to change up our attack. Then we match them well defensively and have strong options on the bench who can raise the intensity and change the game for us at the end. The question is whether we can deliver enough quality to punish them when we get the chance.
Assuming all are available:
Rafferty
Forker Burns McGrane
McElroy Mackin McCabe
Rian O'Neill Crealey
Conor O'Neill Grugan Duffy
Oisin O'Neill Murnin Conaty
Tyrone got a fair bit of success against Donegal by carrying the ball down the wings and laying it off to a man cutting in from the sideline or to an inside runner, Derry used a similar tactic with Ethan Doherty often the ball carrier. We have players who are capable of that same approach, though I don’t think the forward unit who started against Down or Fermanagh are clinical enough to get those scores under pressure. Soupy should come off the bench and Turbitt could be dropped, he's shown very little to warrant starting the final. Conaty's pace and ability to carry the ball could be a useful weapon against a packed defence. He's suited to being that ball carrier who creates a yard of space for a shooter on the layoff, and I'd like to see him pick up McHugh. Jarly og could be replaced with a similar style of player who could perform better than he has the last two games, either Duffy, Conor O'Neill, or even McQuillan. Two or three changes are needed in the forward line to improve on what we have seen so far in Ulster.
We will likely use that three quarter style press on their kickouts, similar to the Derry final last year, where we drop back to their 45 and let them take the short kickout before pushing up and starting the press. That would keep us safe from the long kickout threat and force them into a tiring running game. Hopefully we can find opportunities to go aggressively man to man on their kickout and when they have the ball deep in their own half, similar to Mayo in the Connacht final, because Patton or the sub goalkeeper won't be comfortable progressing the ball all the way forward into our half. It would be beautiful to see us force McGuinness into being caught with his own keeper off the line. They have some quality, press resistant, ball playing defenders in McHugh, Mogan and McGonagle so this would be a difficult task which may not work if we do try it.
Our defensive structure can be a concern even though it has been mostly good so far this year. The team can be naive and easily manipulated at times, like they were in the league final when off the ball runners dragged us around and created an ocean of space at the top of the D for Donegal to kick easy points. We can't afford to do that again. Tyrone kept their big men Kennedy and Kilpatrick around the centre of the 45 to clog that space up and force Donegal down the wings. Rian and Crealey could do a similar role there if they are able to hold their ground and aren't asked to do a deeper sweeping job. Forker was particularly poor for this in the league final when he played centre half back, often distracted and out of position when they passed it back to the shooter, so keeping him out of that area would be better for us.
Donegal's speedy ball carriers will target our forwards in the defensive structure, so don't be surprised to see McGeeney start a defender in the forwards to counter that. It might look like we wouldn't be "going for it" if we take that approach, but realistically they have shown only a few ways of getting scores and if we have the tools to completely shut down one of their most profitable attacking tactics for most of the game, why wouldn't we do that. Then if you couple that with how poor our forwards have been so far, it seems very reasonable to take off a Turbitt who likely won't score anyway for a defender or more physical forward who's stronger on the defensive side and is also capable of chipping over a point if they find themselves in that position. I wouldn't favour this approach if our forwards had shown a capability of racking up a big score, but if they can't do that against Fermanagh or Down, they're not likely to do it against Donegal in a final.
The slow build up style suits Rafferty in goals. It would take some cojones to make that switch considering the Derry game and Blaine not doing much wrong so far, but I think it could be the winning of the game. Tyrone's defense got 5 scores from play as Donegal tracked their forwards leaving space for the support runners when they could break the line. Mattie Donnelly was able to pick up a few easily balls around the middle, carry it forward and swing it over from 40m out or be fouled and win a free kick. Rafferty is the man for that job if our normal shooters are tightly marked. McGuinness might well have a plan in place for him starting, but he couldn't have been a major focus for them when he's only back from injury. If he were brought in as a last minute change it has potential to upset their rhythm and it could give us a huge boost with the crowd if he kicks a score. I’d like to see Rafferty start with a more attack minded defence, as it’ll be mainly group defending anyway and our defenders will need to be capable of progressing the ball forward and tagging on a score if they find themselves in the right bit of space. Rafferty could also be a very impactful sub to bring on in the last 20 minutes if it isn't going our way.
Overall, they've been forced into showing a lot more of their hand than we have, so we should have a big advantage there going into the game. With the Tyrone game being so tight, it's unlikely that McGuinness has been working on some surprise tactic over winter which they've held back for us in the final. It's more likely that they'll have largely the same plan as the Tyrone game and hope to improve on their execution. On the other hand, we haven't really changed the starting team too much since the start of the league, so we could bring an element of surprise if we choose to change up our attack. Then we match them well defensively and have strong options on the bench who can raise the intensity and change the game for us at the end. The question is whether we can deliver enough quality to punish them when we get the chance.
Assuming all are available:
Rafferty
Forker Burns McGrane
McElroy Mackin McCabe
Rian O'Neill Crealey
Conor O'Neill Grugan Duffy
Oisin O'Neill Murnin Conaty
jpowell100
Active Member
I see minimum changes for this game. Would be surprised if it isn’t the exact same team starting again
Armaghball
Well-Known Member
Hope to see one or both of Nugent and Duffy in for Jarly Og/Turbitt. Surely Rafferty won’t start?? Possibly Conor O’Neill in for Soupy and there is definitely a place for Greg McCabe, those Down goals probably don’t happen with him playing.
William Of Orange
Well-Known Member
Yea there’s plenty off lads paying subs in Clubs that don’t go to a club match or an Armagh match , and plenty the other way as well , it’s probably the most logical way of distributing tickets, along with the season one , the problem is having the match in a stadium not fit for purpose, Croke Park won’t be a quarter full on Sunday (€40 euro to see Dublin beat Louth by 15 points) who gives a fuck if the games in Ulster if it could accommodate everyone , you could have had a full house there on Sunday €40 notes would be good value for a double header, Crazy stuff which unfortunately is the GAA all over .Seen an interesting comment somewhere that said it was good to see no tickets on general sale and that they went to the clubs to stop the "bandwagoners".
I'm a season ticket holder this last few years and I genuinely haven't missed a match McKenna Cup, League and Championship in that time, and I can safely say that are very people from my own club attend the vast majority of these games. And the club has totally sold ould the allocation and could have sold a lot more.
What I'm really getting at, is that putting tickets through the clubs is just another way to get "bandwagoners", no different to how general sale would be, I really don't see how it's any different.
For the record, I'm totally fine with "bandwagoners" going to matches. The bigger the crowd, the better the atmosphere and hopefully
But there is undoubtedly a group of people who aren't necessarily involved with a club nor have a season ticket but are certainly loyal and still missing out. There needs to be some sort of loyalty scheme through ticketmaster that caters to these people.
Armaghball
Well-Known Member
Yeah Louth and Dublin is a waste of time in Croker.
Have to say though I don’t know anyone that would be a “proper” Armagh supporter (goes to most games not just the finals) that hasn’t got sorted and same last year.
Armaghniac
Well-Known Member
A double header would have been great and Armagh people would have given Louth a bit of extra support. But provincial councils were never going to cooperate like this and if it was in Croke park then there would be other complaints.
William Of Orange
Well-Known Member
Yea complaints like having toilets were you might have a chance of not catching Ebola….
Team id like to start
Hughes
Burns
McKay
Mccambridge
Ciaran mackin
Mccabe
Forker
Crealy
Mcpartlan
Campbell
Rian O'Neill
Conor O'Neill
Turbitt
Oisin O'Neill
Grugan
I'd say the team that will start is
Hughes
Burns
McKay
McGrane
Ciaran mackin
Forker
McElroy
Crealy
Rian
Campbell
Grugan
Conor oneill
Murnin
Turbitt
Nugent
Hughes
Burns
McKay
Mccambridge
Ciaran mackin
Mccabe
Forker
Crealy
Mcpartlan
Campbell
Rian O'Neill
Conor O'Neill
Turbitt
Oisin O'Neill
Grugan
I'd say the team that will start is
Hughes
Burns
McKay
McGrane
Ciaran mackin
Forker
McElroy
Crealy
Rian
Campbell
Grugan
Conor oneill
Murnin
Turbitt
Nugent
Big Jim
Well-Known Member
I'll help you out and précis it for you!!
........Tyrone got a fair bit of success against Donegal by carrying the ball down the wings and laying it off
We will likely use that three quarter style press on their kickouts
Our defensive structure can be a concern even though it has been mostly good so far this year.
Donegal's speedy ball carriers will target our forwards
The slow build up style suits Rafferty in goals
Overall, they've been forced into showing a lot more of their hand than we have
we can deliver enough quality to punish them when we get the chance
I thank you!!
Just a bit of fun. I enjoyed reading the "full" version!!
Here’s one for you RE tickets. Average club person ( a supporter say, former player ) goes to every Armagh game this year, tickets through the club etc we get to All Ireland semi, club person who is maybe a coach, commitee member etc hasn’t been all year, applies and gets tickets ahead of said initial member. What do you do there ? I can see this happening especially with clubs already asking what volunteering you do for this round of tickets
Bringyourboots
Well-Known Member
Everyone complains we don't go long and when someone does what do you go and doI'll help you out and précis it for you!!
Tyrone got a fair bit of success against Donegal by carrying the ball down the wings and laying it off
We will likely use that three quarter style press on their kickouts
Our defensive structure can be a concern even though it has been mostly good so far this year.
Donegal's speedy ball carriers will target our forwards
The slow build up style suits Rafferty in goals
Overall, they've been forced into showing a lot more of their hand than we have
we can deliver enough quality to punish them when we get the chance
I thank you!!
Just a bit of fun. I enjoyed reading the "full" version!!