ULSTER FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP 2K22

If a team presses our kick out then surely the benefit of having Rafferty in goals for the lockout would be hitting it long , for this we should have a big half forward line which would make the opposition think . The way we had to think about Langon on Sunday . I would have a midfield of Oisin O’Neill & Crealy and then a half forward line of. Grimley , rian and Tk . Our half forward line was too small . Start Grugan in the corner let him come out and roam and for me play Turbitt and Campbell inside .
 
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GAAJohn

Member
I don’t think ability is the issue, while we haven’t done a lot at underage of late, our players make up great college / University teams and club teams esp Cross are competitive outside the county. We’re going into our 3rd year in Div 1 so I don’t think talent or ability is in question. Without a doubt it’s a mentality thing. Our record in 1st round games is abysmal despite going into these games with hopes & expectations. The team has flattered to deceive. Let’s go back to 2010. Armagh beat Donegal out the gate twice that year once in the league & once in the qualifiers (and we were no world beaters). 2011 - Donegal were Ulster champions 2012 AI champions. They got a style of play to suit them & a strong mentality I was installed.
It’s not a root & branch assessment we need it’s a definite way of playing & a strong mentality- both are lacking right now which leads to choking in big games.
And what did they do after we beat them out the gate in 2010? Changed their manager and the rest is history. You only have to look as far as our neighbours changing a 3 x all ireland winner whilst we are entering our 8th year with no success or even close to success. The question is are fans happy to remain a average/decent league side whilst being completely tactically inept in big games with the odd run in the backdoor or do we want to become a ulster contender and compete alongside doenagl, tyrone and monaghan the level we thought we were at prior to sunday. I know which level I would rather be at.
 

Armaghball

Well-Known Member
And what did they do after we beat them out the gate in 2010? Changed their manager and the rest is history. You only have to look as far as our neighbours changing a 3 x all ireland winner whilst we are entering our 8th year with no success or even close to success. The question is are fans happy to remain a average/decent league side whilst being completely tactically inept in big games with the odd run in the backdoor or do we want to become a ulster contender and compete alongside doenagl, tyrone and monaghan the level we thought we were at prior to sunday. I know which level I would rather be at.
Conversation for the end of the year. Big thing McGeeney in his favour is he has 100% buy in from all the best players in the county bar maybe 2 or 3 I can think of and don’t think its the manager thats the issue with those lads, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Agree though that going to Donegal again and being outclassed on the same things as the last time we played them in the championship isn’t good. Like I say though, plenty of time for that talk when the season is over.
 
Conversation for the end of the year. Big thing McGeeney in his favour is he has 100% buy in from all the best players in the county bar maybe 2 or 3 I can think of and don’t think its the manager thats the issue with those lads, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Agree though that going to Donegal again and being outclassed on the same things as the last time we played them in the championship isn’t good. Like I say though, plenty of time for that talk when the season is over.
Out of interest what 2 or 3 do you think
 

Armaghball

Well-Known Member
Out of interest what 2 or 3 do you think
Heffron from Clann Eireann, the McKennas from Grange were the 3 off the top of my head, I know the 3 of them have been involved in the past as has everyone @MrMaguire2002 listed. All good players and would be pushing for a place but not huge upgrades on what we have.

Don’t know why they aren’t involved at the minute but obviously a wide range of possible reasons
 

MrMaguire2002

Well-Known Member
Heffron from Clann Eireann, the McKennas from Grange were the 3 off the top of my head, I know the 3 of them have been involved in the past as has everyone @MrMaguire2002 listed. All good players and would be pushing for a place but not huge upgrades on what we have.

Don’t know why they aren’t involved at the minute but obviously a wide range of possible reasons
Heffron had an excellent club season completely forgot about him.
 
Games won in the Ulster championship in the last decade (2012-now) From Cahair O Kane
Donegal 27 Monaghan 16 Tyrone 12 Cavan 9 Down 7 Armagh 4 Fermanagh 4 Derry 1 Antrim 1
 

ragingbull

Well-Known Member
Who won Ulster in those ten years
Donegal 4 Themuns 3 Monaghan 2 Cavan 1
Donegal 8 finals won 4 lost 4 themuns 3 finals won 3 Monaghan 4 finals won 2 lost 2 Cavan 2 finals won 1 lost 1 Down 2 finals lost both Fermanagh 1 final lost Armagh Antrim Derry no finals
 
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ragingbull

Well-Known Member
4 wins in Ulster doesn’t tell the whole tale.

We’ve made two AI QF’s in those 10 years. We also nearly made the Shitty 8’s another year. Plus we beat Tyrone and Monaghan in their own back yards, who made the AI semis the previous year.
The super 8s weren't shit ;)
 

PatMustard

Well-Known Member
The super 8s weren't shit ;)
You’re right.

They were a needless sideshow, that ripped the arse out of an already hectic schedule, benefitting counties with big squads and huge resources, and putting pressure on loyal fans to travel around the country spending a lot of money to follow their team.
 

Rufus T Firefly

Well-Known Member
I couldn't even tell you who it was that famously said the only certain things in life are death, taxes and the boot being put into Geezer after an Armagh Championship defeat. And so it comes to pass. I've gone to start a reply to last Sunday's events a few times and each time lost the motivation to finish, so I'll try once more.

The first thing to say is that I don't want to go into detail on last Sunday, save to say that it was desperately disappointing. Truth be told, I thought we would get clipped, although the nature of the performance was very disappointing. For me, I thought Donegal learned an awful lot from the league game in Letterkenny and we did not. At half time in Letterkenny, I was sure that we were deliberately keeping our cards close to our chest by letting them have their own kick-out uncontested and by keeping Grugan and Rian O'Neill off the pitch - albeit at the expense of a heavy league defeat. However that changed at half time in that game and we seemed to go for broke, which I couldn't understand, and we won a lot of ball by pushing up on them and winning our own kick-out through runs to the wing. We nearly pulled a result out of the fire.

Back to Sunday and we let them have their own kick-outs in the first half which I thought was a lesson not learned and they owned us at midfield, pushing up on our kick-outs, narrowing the pitch and putting a line of steel across the middle. We then did not seem to be able to adapt / change and we were slowly strangled to death. It reminded me of a rugby union team not being able to win their own scrum. Recipe for disaster.

There's no doubt about it - it was not management's finest hour.

That said, it should not be lost that Donegal away is as tough a Championship opener as it is possible to get. I'd have Donegal currently in a group with Mayo and Galway, behind Dublin, Kerry and Tyrone. That is why I thought we would get beaten. Now, as to the criticism of management, would replacing the management improve things? Might we suddenly be winning matches such as Donegal away and pushing for an All Ireland semi-final?

With apologies to @POINTMAN but I'm going to quote his post and refer specifically to the line in bold.

At the end of this county season, we need a major review of where we are - Geezer has had 8 years (I think) and his championship record is very poor. At the end of the day - it is the championship which really counts. I think we have a group of players who have great potential- who knows what might be achieved if we had someone with the tactical nous to take us to the next level?

I'd genuinely ask all on here - and not just POINTMAN - what they see as the potential of this group of players? Is it greater than what we are currently seeing, and if it is, do people think that a change of management will be key to achieving this? Would people feel that we should be challenging for Provincial honours? Should we be regularly in All Ireland quarter-finals? Semi-finals?

For me personally, I feel we are probably boxing at our weight, if not above our weight. I think our early season form tended to maybe give a false sense of where we are at, but I have seen nothing recently to suggest that we have progressed above 6 - 12 in terms of an order of merit. That simply puts the Donegals and Tyrones of this world above us in the pecking order and leaves a Provincial Championship a wee bit beyond us and an All Ireland quarter-final dependent on a favourable draw.

In a wider context, I genuinely feel the standard of football in Armagh is terrible and I would point to the record of our Under 20s, Minors and club sides in the Provincial Championships. Look at Tyrone in contrast - All Ireland Senior Champions and have just won (yet another) Ulster Under 20 Title.

Would a change in management alter that? I personally don't think so and I say that as someone - an ordinary punter - who would have issues with personnel and tactics last weekend. We are currently in a context in terms of inter county football where it is increasingly difficult to get players to buy in in terms of time, commitment, disruption to ordinary life etc. and I believe the current management have been able to maximise that buy in, including some key players. Might that situation be impacted if management was changed? I don't know, but it should surely be something to consider?

Anyway, in the conversations I have had since last Sunday, I do get an increasing sense that management is coming under the spotlight more and more and that the issue is going to be looked at in greater detail over the coming months. It will be at that time that the more challenging questions will need to be asked, i.e. if we change management, what will be the positives and what will be the negatives arising.

And when it is fully analysed, I'm just not so sure that balance sheet will be as one sided as many here might think.
 
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