League 2021

thesword

New Member
I think there may be several areas that should be addressed, as they have been underlying for several years, both short term and long term:

Player Availability – Are we getting the best players available for the county team? There are players in the county I fell should be on the panel as they are a cut above, but are not for whatever reasons. Is the demands too much, too much personal time taken up? Is there no wriggle room for the modern IC player?

Player Management – To chime into the Murnin debate as an example, are players being managed correctly, as he has had a shocking bad run of injuries as has E Rafferty? They don’t seem serious but more consistent pulls and strains, soft tissue injuries, which is pointing towards over training of some players perhaps?

Fringe Players – For some of the up and coming players, breaking onto the team may be problematic, as bar friendly’s, the management seem to stick to as close to their starting team as possible. I know a few players from my club have stepped away because lack of opportunities. I can only imagine the in house matches will slightly suffer as a result of that also. You could argue the point, if they are good enough they will get on, but we know that is not always the case. Jack Grugan as a glaring example. We know he was on the panel but never really got a chance. Perhaps he never really fitted McGeeneys style of play, but not everyone will.

The Club Game – As has been pointed out on several forums, the Armagh club game maybe isn’t as competitive as it used to be, with negative tactics hampering players abilities. I read an article on how the up and coming club defender will lack the proper skill of tackling, as packed defences are leading them to having to do nothing more than stall a forward if he wins the ball.

I know these negative tactics have been prevalent for a few years now, and the counties well documented tackling issues may be a direct result of that finally bearing fruit.

Coaching – I think Big Jim makes a good point that a youth player can be involved in several teams, and there is no proper standardisation of coaching across the board. At the end of the day football is a game of opinion and how it should be played is that given coaches opinion.


The last two issues are more or less long term concerns. In my view, clubs should take a hard stance on underage coaches employing negative tactics, and 1v1 battles should be promoted as much as possible. And some sort of standardisation on skills should be employed across schools, clubs and development squads.
 

ShiftYa

Well-Known Member
Just in relation to the club game does anyone have an idea of how many Games promotion officers we employ if any, I know Dublin County board employs 54 GPOs. A lot of Dublin's success can be attributed to the work they do at club and school level, even if we could employ 4 or 5 of these to go around and help out with coaching around the clubs especially at underage it would start to pay dividends 5 or 6 years down the line. If we sacked Denis Hollywood and Julie Davis it would free up the budget to do this.
 

JoeH

Well-Known Member
Just in relation to the club game does anyone have an idea of how many Games promotion officers we employ if any, I know Dublin County board employs 54 GPOs. A lot of Dublin's success can be attributed to the work they do at club and school level, even if we could employ 4 or 5 of these to go around and help out with coaching around the clubs especially at underage it would start to pay dividends 5 or 6 years down the line. If we sacked Denis Hollywood and Julie Davis it would free up the budget to do this.
I seem to recall there are 7 GPOs who work in schools might be one more or one less
And the basis of sacking two people is what? Employee tribunals, unfair dismissals and so on
If someone knew your name and stuck it on a forum to say sack you to free up money what would you think?
 

JoeH

Well-Known Member
The problem with coaching at clubs is this:

No coherent and consistent coaching structure across all age groups
Coaches being parents who are interested in winning only
Playing sweepers at underage games
Coaches dictating which division to play in so that they can win more games
Paid managers interested in playing a style that makes them more employable when they move on
Poor coaching methods at underage where children can't kick pass correctly, can't handpass with both hands
Children are not being taught the basic skills early enough
Children not being taught how to play the game from mid teens on
Clubs snubbing County setups
County setups not including all children from all clubs

If we want our county teams to do well club players have to be better
We have too many clubs in the county need to lose at least 4 maybe up towards 8

No one coaching plan will appease everyone but for sure the following should be a minimum:

Better coaches
Better skilled players
Better club and county setup communication

If we achieve these we will be better off
 

ShiftYa

Well-Known Member
I seem to recall there are 7 GPOs who work in schools might be one more or one less
And the basis of sacking two people is what? Employee tribunals, unfair dismissals and so on
If someone knew your name and stuck it on a forum to say sack you to free up money what would you think?
If I was working for a public interest organisation and are underperforming I'd consider it fair game.
 

ragingbull

Well-Known Member
Just in relation to the club game does anyone have an idea of how many Games promotion officers we employ if any, I know Dublin County board employs 54 GPOs. A lot of Dublin's success can be attributed to the work they do at club and school level, even if we could employ 4 or 5 of these to go around and help out with coaching around the clubs especially at underage it would start to pay dividends 5 or 6 years down the line. If we sacked Denis Hollywood and Julie Davis it would free up the budget to do this.
If McGeeney were to go Hollywood would probably be in the running for the Armagh job
 

Manjet

New Member
God forbid if Hollywood was to get the job we would be doomed and playing Div 4 within 3 years man couldn’t run a bath never mind a county team

Look at all the success he had brought to us at underage level in recent years
 

Lemallon

Active Member
I think @bcb1 and myself could both testify to the upmost importance of schools football. We were in secondary school together and were on a panel which ended up providing quite a number of members of the 2002 winning team
While coaching at that time was fairly archaic the simple fact of playing with a group of players of a similarly high standard 4/5 days a week was invaluable to development.
Similarly the fact that u were competing against a similar standard of person in these mc Rory games improved you exponentially.
I would be a massive proponent of the importance of schools football due to the opportunity you have to train with good players from other clubs and also the time available to develop the skill if a good coach is in that school.
The fact that we have the abbey st Colman’s st pats St. Paul’s st Ronans and st Josephs means that we should have no excuses when it comes to generating a sufficient quality of player every year.
 

Throwball

Well-Known Member
I think @bcb1 and myself could both testify to the upmost importance of schools football. We were in secondary school together and were on a panel which ended up providing quite a number of members of the 2002 winning team
While coaching at that time was fairly archaic the simple fact of playing with a group of players of a similarly high standard 4/5 days a week was invaluable to development.
Similarly the fact that u were competing against a similar standard of person in these mc Rory games improved you exponentially.
I would be a massive proponent of the importance of schools football due to the opportunity you have to train with good players from other clubs and also the time available to develop the skill if a good coach is in that school.
The fact that we have the abbey st Colman’s st pats St. Paul’s st Ronans and st Josephs means that we should have no excuses when it comes to generating a sufficient quality of player every year.

Schools can be a great asset for stronger players but in many ways that is dependent on the quality of the teacher doing the coaching. The Newry schools had some great teacher/ coaches back in the day. To be honest I dont know who takes teams in all schools the county has.
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
Just in relation to the club game does anyone have an idea of how many Games promotion officers we employ if any, I know Dublin County board employs 54 GPOs. A lot of Dublin's success can be attributed to the work they do at club and school level, even if we could employ 4 or 5 of these to go around and help out with coaching around the clubs especially at underage it would start to pay dividends 5 or 6 years down the line. If we sacked Denis Hollywood and Julie Davis it would free up the budget to do this.
How much money exactly would sacking those two free up do you think?
 

ShiftYa

Well-Known Member
How much money exactly would sacking those two free up do you think?
I can only guess but I suspect in the range of £60,000 to £90,000. It would be nice if the county released its financials to the public as headquarters do for the sake of transparency but unfortunately they don't.
 

Manjet

New Member
Hollywood has been stealing a living from Armagh GAA for the past number of years, at least Dick Turpin wore a mask ( oh that’s right he is wearing one now as well)
 

green flag

Active Member
Enough is enough, time for Admin to put an end to this vendetta being waged by Manjet on Dinny Hollywood, I do not know Mr Hollywood but to be accused on a public forum of committing a criminal offence, to wit stealing from the county board over a number of years is serious talk, and must be grounds for a case of definition of character. Time to call time on Manjet.
 

ragingbull

Well-Known Member
Enough is enough, time for Admin to put an end to this vendetta being waged by Manjet on Dinny Hollywood, I do not know Mr Hollywood but to be accused on a public forum of committing a criminal offence, to wit stealing from the county board over a number of years is serious talk, and must be grounds for a case of definition of character. Time to call time on Manjet.
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ShiftYa

Well-Known Member
Enough is enough, time for Admin to put an end to this vendetta being waged by Manjet on Dinny Hollywood, I do not know Mr Hollywood but to be accused on a public forum of committing a criminal offence, to wit stealing from the county board over a number of years is serious talk, and must be grounds for a case of definition of character. Time to call time on Manjet.
Calm down, ‘stealing a living’ is a figure if speech, no such accusation has been made.
 

Admin1

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Enough is enough, time for Admin to put an end to this vendetta being waged by Manjet on Dinny Hollywood, I do not know Mr Hollywood but to be accused on a public forum of committing a criminal offence, to wit stealing from the county board over a number of years is serious talk, and must be grounds for a case of definition of character. Time to call time on Manjet.
We have had this discussion openly since the forum began and we cannot control what people chose to post. We cannot be held responsible, as it is up to each individual what they decide to put in writing. It is up to members like yourself to call these posts out for what they are. That doesn't mean we wash our hands, as we find these type of posts reprehensible, but please remember we agreed after polling members not to interfere, remove posts, edit posts or block members based on opinions or statements, but again we make it clear we have no problem handing the details over to authorities if required - also be aware that a member editing or deleting a post, does not remove it from our system. It remains as part of the log once you hit "Post Reply". By creating an account you agreed to be bound by these terms in line with all other agreements.

This forum remains open to be seen and read publicly without the need to create an account which would have given a certain level of privacy (again this was voted on by members and that was the opinion made quite clear).

However the legal position is quite clear. An individual can be held accountable for anything transmitted by whatever means they choose to use including electronic devices and social media. As admin we are required to have an email address associated with each post (which we have) and a list of the IP addresses associated with that account (which we have). Because of GDPR rules we are not allowed to run validity checks on IP addresses, but do check email addresses. We MUST if requested, provide those details to any legally constituted organisation. For the avoidance of doubt, that means law firms and statutory bodies as an example. Not individuals or organisations.
 

bcb1

Well-Known Member
Admin had its say, I’m afraid to post anything :D

Back to the point as @Lemallon correctly stated we both were part of a great group in school, I remember counting out that between the Armagh minor team of 1992 and the Down team that they beat in the championship by a point in the first round there were 17 of the 2 squads. I’d say that St Colman’s had at least 12-13 of the 2 squads. Those were great times for both schools. What I would say though is at that time primary schools football was also competitive. I firmly believe that as underage football has become less and less competitive the quality of player has gone down. The notion of go games has meant that every Johnny gets a game. The weaker player gets slightly better but the stronger player regresses in my opinion. Men like Lemallons late father, Malachy McGeeney, and a few others were real drivers in their time. That seems to have stopped. It’s up to the likes of Denis Holywood to pick this up and whilst I would not be a forthright as manjet I would say that questions do need to be asked
 

Admin1

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Admin had its say, I’m afraid to post anything :D

Back to the point as @Lemallon correctly stated we both were part of a great group in school, I remember counting out that between the Armagh minor team of 1992 and the Down team that they beat in the championship by a point in the first round there were 17 of the 2 squads. I’d say that St Colman’s had at least 12-13 of the 2 squads. Those were great times for both schools. What I would say though is at that time primary schools football was also competitive. I firmly believe that as underage football has become less and less competitive the quality of player has gone down. The notion of go games has meant that every Johnny gets a game. The weaker player gets slightly better but the stronger player regresses in my opinion. Men like Lemallons late father, Malachy McGeeney, and a few others were real drivers in their time. That seems to have stopped. It’s up to the likes of Denis Holywood to pick this up and whilst I would not be a forthright as manjet I would say that questions do need to be asked
I’m afraid to post anything ever again! :eek:

Flip, I just did! :rolleyes:

bcb/PatMustard if everyone was as measured and thoughtful as yourselves and several others, there'd be no need for us to post at all. We just wanted to reply to @green flag and his very valid point and acknowledge that we do watch. Thankfully it's rare we get involved. We prefer to facilitate the debate, rather than influence it. As you were (just stop asking your friends to post those less than salubrious threads we have to delete).
 

Manjet

New Member
In reply to greenflag and as shiftya has said the words I used are a figure of speech and that’s the context it was meant in. I am 100% not accusing anyone of stealing or committing any criminal offence, the thought never entered my head.
 
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