League 2021
- Thread starter niall1980
- Start date
Admin had its say, I’m afraid to post anything
Back to the point as @Lemallon correctly stated we both were part of a great group in school, I remember counting out that between the Armagh minor team of 1992 and the Down team that they beat in the championship by a point in the first round there were 17 of the 2 squads. I’d say that St Colman’s had at least 12-13 of the 2 squads. Those were great times for both schools. What I would say though is at that time primary schools football was also competitive. I firmly believe that as underage football has become less and less competitive the quality of player has gone down. The notion of go games has meant that every Johnny gets a game. The weaker player gets slightly better but the stronger player regresses in my opinion. Men like Lemallons late father, Malachy McGeeney, and a few others were real drivers in their time. That seems to have stopped. It’s up to the likes of Denis Holywood to pick this up and whilst I would not be a forthright as manjet I would say that questions do need to be asked
I think the problem is that people considered go games none competitive. You can still give everyone a go and still make it competitive. A competitive nature needs to be developed for life not just football.
Without searching for the prove online I know research has shown that giving all children game time actually helps keep better players than discourage them. Too often the big star player has too many masters and quits. As I have said before who are we to suggest a young fella isn't good enough. We cant even agree on the best 15 for our county team. Also confirmation bias is real. If we think a young fella isn't good enough at 10 we will find reasons why not to pick him at 14 no matter how much he has improved. Also the first sub at eg Cross could be better than the best player at Clady for example. If he doesn't get playing he will disappear.
Big Jim
Well-Known Member
Actually they do. It's a legal requirement not only as part of being a member of the GAA but here in the North it is also compulsory under the clubs act, to prevent money laundering by paramilitary organisations, that the accounts are declared to the PSNI.
The Constitution in the official guide covers it:
- 3.15 Agenda and notice - The County Secretary shall send an agenda, which shall include his/her Report and the Audited Accounts for the year, with the nominations and motions, to each Club Secretary and to the Members of the outgoing County Committee, at least one week before the Convention.
A copy of these documents, and the County Grounds Accounts for the previous financial year, shall, at the same time, be forwarded to the Central and Provincial Councils. Failure to do so may involve suspension.
I'd say it's quite clear and having been to the convention several times, I know for a fact that the audited accounts are always available.
For non-member members (I know some people aren't members of a club) the official guide covering the constitution can be found at http://ulster.gaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/2016OfficialGuide-Part1.pdf
Big Jim
Well-Known Member
The club act in the north, just in case anyone is interested or anyone thinks it's not applicable to sports clubs:
Accounts of registered clubs, etc.
40.—(1) Every registered club and every club which has served a notice under paragraph 1(1)(a) of Schedule 2 shall—
(a)keep such vouchers with respect to its transactions and its assets and liabilities, and in such manner, as may be prescribed, and
(b)establish and maintain a prescribed system of control of its accounts, its cash holdings and all its receipts and remittances, and
(c)prepare an annual statement of accounts in such form and containing such particulars as may be prescribed, and
(d)cause those accounts to be audited by such person (“the auditor”), and in such manner, as may be prescribed, and
(e)on being required by the auditor, produce any record or voucher and any other information or explanation which appears to the auditor to relate to those accounts and which the auditor requires to inspect, and
(f)send a copy of those accounts and the auditor’s report thereon to the sub-divisional commander of the police sub-division in which the premises of the club are situated within 3 months of the end of the financial year of the club to which they relate, and
(g)on the demand of any member of the club, send a summary of those accounts and the auditor’s report thereon to that member, free of charge, as soon as they become available, and
(h)cause a summary of those accounts and auditor’s report thereon to be displayed, for a period of 4 weeks ending on the date of the annual general meeting, in a conspicuous part of the premises of the club which is accessible to all members, and
(i)keep all original vouchers, books, accounts, reports and other documents which the club is required to keep under the provisions of this Order for a period of 6 years from the date of the auditor’s report on the accounts to which they relate, and notify, in writing, the sub-divisional commander mentioned
(j)in sub-paragraph (f) of the address or addresses at which the vouchers, books, accounts, reports and other documents to which sub-paragraph (i) applies are kept.
(2) If paragraph (1) is contravened—
(a)the registered club; and
(b)every official of the club at the time of the contravention;
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.
(3) In any proceedings for an offence under paragraph (1) it shall be a defence for a person to prove that he exercised all due diligence to avoid the commission of such an offence.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/1996/3159/made
Just a little light reading if anyone finds it hard to sleep. That'll do it so it will!!
Accounts of registered clubs, etc.
40.—(1) Every registered club and every club which has served a notice under paragraph 1(1)(a) of Schedule 2 shall—
(a)keep such vouchers with respect to its transactions and its assets and liabilities, and in such manner, as may be prescribed, and
(b)establish and maintain a prescribed system of control of its accounts, its cash holdings and all its receipts and remittances, and
(c)prepare an annual statement of accounts in such form and containing such particulars as may be prescribed, and
(d)cause those accounts to be audited by such person (“the auditor”), and in such manner, as may be prescribed, and
(e)on being required by the auditor, produce any record or voucher and any other information or explanation which appears to the auditor to relate to those accounts and which the auditor requires to inspect, and
(f)send a copy of those accounts and the auditor’s report thereon to the sub-divisional commander of the police sub-division in which the premises of the club are situated within 3 months of the end of the financial year of the club to which they relate, and
(g)on the demand of any member of the club, send a summary of those accounts and the auditor’s report thereon to that member, free of charge, as soon as they become available, and
(h)cause a summary of those accounts and auditor’s report thereon to be displayed, for a period of 4 weeks ending on the date of the annual general meeting, in a conspicuous part of the premises of the club which is accessible to all members, and
(i)keep all original vouchers, books, accounts, reports and other documents which the club is required to keep under the provisions of this Order for a period of 6 years from the date of the auditor’s report on the accounts to which they relate, and notify, in writing, the sub-divisional commander mentioned
(j)in sub-paragraph (f) of the address or addresses at which the vouchers, books, accounts, reports and other documents to which sub-paragraph (i) applies are kept.
(2) If paragraph (1) is contravened—
(a)the registered club; and
(b)every official of the club at the time of the contravention;
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.
(3) In any proceedings for an offence under paragraph (1) it shall be a defence for a person to prove that he exercised all due diligence to avoid the commission of such an offence.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/1996/3159/made
Just a little light reading if anyone finds it hard to sleep. That'll do it so it will!!
ShiftYa
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily available to the public but at least I know now if I would like a copy I could put a request into my club secretary.
Big Jim
Well-Known Member
Here I wouldn't worry, sure Jeffery will get you all ya need to know from Drew!!
Eireogatron
Well-Known Member
Can't believe the saying that someone is "stealing a living" has been attempted to equate to libel and accusations of actual theft
2020 guys, incredible
2020 guys, incredible
PatMustard
Well-Known Member
Every day is a school day - which reminds me, I'll soon have my sentence served so that's a positive
Bizzies - flip I haven’t heard that word since Brookside was cancelled.
Big Jim
Well-Known Member
and me pretending to the girlfriend I'm only a young thing. D'Oh!!!
ShiftYa
Well-Known Member
https://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/314290
I see the HoganStand rates us as the 12th best footballing team in the country initially I taught it was a bit low but I can’t make the argument were any better than the teams above us apart from maybe Monaghan, possibly Cavan but it’ll be easier to make a better assessment on them after Sunday. Don’t think there’s much of a gap between 11 to 17. One could make the argument we fall anywhere in that range.
I see the HoganStand rates us as the 12th best footballing team in the country initially I taught it was a bit low but I can’t make the argument were any better than the teams above us apart from maybe Monaghan, possibly Cavan but it’ll be easier to make a better assessment on them after Sunday. Don’t think there’s much of a gap between 11 to 17. One could make the argument we fall anywhere in that range.
Armaghniac
Well-Known Member
Laoisman11's ranking on Boards.ie, which is based on the FIFA ranking methodology or suchlike, puts us at 11. We've been in 12-9 range of late, i.e. solid Div 2 territory, might reach the last 8 on a good day.
1 Dublin
2 Mayo
3 Donegal
4 Kerry
5 Tyrone
6 Galway
7 Cavan
8 Cork
9 Meath
10 Roscommon
11 Armagh
12 Monaghan
13 Laois
14 Kildare
15 Westmeath
16 Down
Big Jim
Well-Known Member
Yeah I think it's about right too. I'd also agree we may be able to beat possibly Monaghan and Cavan, maybe even Meath, but as you sort of allude to, rankings aren't necessarily based on who "could" beat who, but more how you have performed over a period of time. I recognise we've placed ourselves in the top eight, exactly where a lot of us, if not most, would want us to be, but I fear we will struggle, like Meath, to get a win, based on the last couple of years performances.
However that could all be irrelevant next year as there's already talk of having a "regionalised league" campaign for 2021. They just don't want us up there by the look of it
(of course I jest by that last bit) but what a shame if it did happen. What is the point in playing if not to challenge and develop? Goes back to the conversation about underage and @bcb1 's comments about the competitive nature of go games - or lack of!Yeah I think it's about right too. I'd also agree we may be able to beat possibly Monaghan and Cavan, maybe even Meath, but as you sort of allude to, rankings aren't necessarily based on who "could" beat who, but more how you have performed over a period of time. I recognise we've placed ourselves in the top eight, exactly where a lot of us, if not most, would want us to be, but I fear we will struggle, like Meath, to get a win, based on the last couple of years performances.
However that could all be irrelevant next year as there's already talk of having a "regionalised league" campaign for 2021. They just don't want us up there by the look of it
I agree with much if this but in relation to your underage comment go games are used throughout Ireland so they are unlikely to skew things against Armagh. They are also combined with blitz tournaments were group stages divide teams into their level - cup, shield and plate for example - so that the children find their competitive level . We also have to be aware that we are developing people in the GAA and not just players. Leaving the same children standing on the sideline is wrong in my opinion. It can create issues with the child and loses them and family and friends to the club. It is also against the ethos of the GAA and is not considered best practice on child safeguarding matters.
On saying that as big an issue is clubs playing a lower division so they can win something. That doesnt challenge players which I totally agree is essential in development. On the other side there is no use playing them in a division that is too high for most of the players as they will just lose competitive instinct.
Eireogatron
Well-Known Member
Cavan at 7, no chance.
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
Enda McGinley new Antrim manager with Stephen O'Neill along side him
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portadownarmaghfan
Well-Known Member
According to Manjet, not only is Denis 'stealing a living', he also 'hasn't a clue, never had, never will have', 'couldn't run a bath' and most hilariously of all ' couldn't coach a bag of chips'.Can't believe the saying that someone is "stealing a living" has been attempted to equate to libel and accusations of actual theft
2020 guys, incredible
Btw, if you haven't seen this in the bookshops already, go and get it while stocks last. Essential reading for any aspiring coach.
PatMustard
Well-Known Member
You’ve got the wrong Enda (the stick).
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
Didnt realise I did that