All Ireland series

William Of Orange

Well-Known Member
You are either very young or have a short memory. Every single goalkeeper has been criticised on this or other forums. Tierney, Hearty, McEvoy, right through to Hughes all faced criticism. The lad from Middletown was hounded off the panel in recent years ffs.

If any goalkeeper kicked so many kick outs away they’d be pulled on it so he can’t be above criticism because he “isn’t a goalkeeper”. That fact is if he is wearing number 1 means he is the goalkeeper and should be striving to be the very best in the country at the technical aspects of goalkeeping. A few solo runs up the field shouldnt paper the cracks, they should be in addition to being a sound keeper, not instead of.
Beggan had one howler as well yesterday, straight after kicking an unbelievable 45 , maybe we have to accept with Ethan the positive’s he has as an attacking threat outweigh the negatives , I’m sure he’s practicing the kick outs but in the heat of the match he kicked two awful ones , it’s amazing how many times this happens to us , surely a ‘go to’ play should be in the locker , other teams don’t seem to have this problem.
 

William Of Orange

Well-Known Member
T

The definition of forum is:
a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
"we hope these pages act as a forum for debate"
Some people will have views or ideas that dont match up with yours again doesn't make you right and them wrong or vise versa.

You said in your original post I categorically say they are lesser supporters, but sure , everyone’s entitled to their opinion. Think that is clear as day what you think
Do you think that people that don’t bother going to matches (outside of genuine reasons) sitting at home , ready to critique the team mostly negatively are good supporters ? Are there a cohort of these people in this forum ?
 
Many years ago, an Armagh stalwart, sadly no longer with us, once told me that in his vast experience, for some inexplicable reason Armagh teams tended to drop to the level of the opposition and play better against the stronger teams. This came into my mind standing in Athletic grounds last night, I thought there's a grain of truth somewhere in that :) as Armagh looked like they were the division 3 team. However, lucky or not, a win is a win and we'll take it and move on.

Listening to the Derry v Monaghan match on the radio the commentator, when talking about Derry performance said Derry were very flat, no energy standing off the ball etc Sounded identical to Armagh. Not sure if it's post Ulster final or what??
 

gael_force_orchard

Well-Known Member
Leaving the match last night I was thinking that was atrocious, brutal, we will do nothing this summer. Didn't post last night and have slept on it. There are some good bad and indifferent about that game.

Firstly, Rian buries that first half goal chance and I think the game plays out a comfortable win. Just the way it falls sometimes.

Secondly, extra time a fortnight ago, in a decent enough heat, that takes it out of the system and drains energy. Game finishes in normal time and you don't have that problem. I've run more than enough marathons and half marathons to know that once you go above a set limit, an extra recovery period is needed. Derry were flat last night as well. So yes, a bit of a system imbalance on the legs from the Ulster final.

Ethan is getting criticised for 2 sent over the line. Hearty put 2 to 3 balls over the line in every game he played for us but we accepted it. Others do it as well. We need movement out the field for keepers to have an option and I thought we lacked movement. So that's on the whole team, not just on Ethan.

Nugent needs gametime somewhere, that injury seems to have take a bit out of him, this isn't a criticism, it's just that he has had a bad injury and is taking time and it showed.

I thought one thing that was off concern though was that they were able to kill 15 minutes of that second half in 2 phases of play where we stood off and allowed them to hand pass back and forth between the two 45s, I watched the clock on this to time it and it struck me as our lads didn't really know whether to stick or twist in the scenario. So work on in game situations requires tinkering and thought. It could have inadvertently cost us the game as the clock was not on our side.

Couple of positives. Rafferty does have vision out the field for a pass, his pass to Mackin for a score in the second half was exquisite. Murnin grew into the game well. Turbitt made a difference. I also thought that McPartlan made a contribution coming on in the second half and that will give him confidence. Crealey got more involved in the game as it went on.

That was a poor performance yes, but we ground it out in what was a difficult enough game to start off the all Ireland series. Tyrone next and we have another game under our belt and dusted down after the Ulster final. Hopefully we see the improvement needed and put in a big shift. There is more than enough truth in the old saying that Armagh set themselves at the level of the opposition. I've also been saying it for years
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
Do you think that people that don’t bother going to matches (outside of genuine reasons) sitting at home , ready to critique the team mostly negatively are good supporters ? Are there a cohort of these people in this forum ?
I see people at games who do not care one jot about the team. They are there for a day out or to be seen to be at games. According to you they are better supporters than others just because they go to games?
 

Patrick-Armagh

Well-Known Member
Just reading some of Oisin McConville's comments before the game and I think he had it pretty much nailed on.

"They should win," the 2002 All-Ireland winner said of the Westmeath game.

"Therein lies the problem though. If there's any sense of complacency, any hangover from the Derry game, which no doubt there will be, we're talking about human beings here.

"That was a bit of a setback for Armagh. There's no point in saying any different. The fact that they haven't got silverware now probably increases the pressure on them a little bit."

He added: "This is a good game to get them back on track. I don't expect Armagh start quickly but I'd expect them to get the job done."


I think that I'm as guilty as everyone else of forgetting that these guys aren't robots. They are human beings. They will have been devastated after the loss to Derry, especially with how it happened. The mental toll that would take on you in a sporting sense would be immense and one that not many people can relate to, as so few of us play elite level sport. To think that they could just put it behind them, move on and produce a top class display yesterday, is naive. They would have been feeling pressure and uncertainty going into this game. That doesn't excuse some of what we saw yesterday, but if you put it into context, you can see why they struggled in the second half.

First half I thought we very good for the most part. We left an easy 1-5 behind in the first half (Rian's goal effort and a free he dragged wide, Ben Crealy should have hand passed over the bar instead of trying to set up Duffy, Soupy and Grugan dropped easy chances short and Nugent had a bad wide), which would have put us in total control. These chances all came before their goal, which happened after a great turnover by Rian on the wing, then burning their defence for pace before dropping a bad shot short from a tight angle when a better option should have been taken, which they the counter attacked from. So in this regard, I'd argue that we did start well, did show purpose and attacking intent, saw diving blocks, created turnovers, but we let ourselves down by not converting our chances. If a team is mentally fragile, then those things will weigh even heavier on you. You have the mental baggage from the Derry defeat, you're in a must win game at home against a team you should beat, you've been entirely on top, carved out some good openings with some good play, but you haven't taken your chances and now they've gone and scored a goal out of nowhere and all of a sudden the pressure is really on. That is going to have an effect on you.

I think we saw that pressure in effect in the second half. Westmeath were more than happy to hold onto the ball and frustrate the team and the fans. The more time they had the ball, with clock rolling by, the fans were getting rightly nervous and agitated, which was feeding onto the pitch, which naturally has an effect on the team. That's when you need strong leadership from those on the pitch to start making things happen, work harder to force mistakes and create turnovers and get the fans up for it. That's where I think we were poor in the second half. We were too passive in not putting them under pressure to get the ball back. Westmeath had that buffer of a goal and whenever we'd score a few points, to draw within a score, they would come up with one, which would set us back again. I'd argue that all of this has a spiralling effect. When we did win the ball back, we'd try to force the play and coughed up possession. The more that happens, the more it will happen. Throw in the pressure they were under to win, the mental doubts from the Derry game, then I can understand why it was a nervy performance. While the second half was bad, I can see a lot of contributing factors to it. I give them massive credit for finding the courage to win the game. The likes of Murnin, Mackin, O'Neill and Rafferty produced some big plays to win us the game. With all that went on before this game and when you look at Oisin McConville's comments, I think the game panned out this way.

One thing that I did find worrying though was the two goal kicks at the end, which were as bad as you'd see at this level. Again, pressure and doubt forces mistakes and those were two really bad ones, that should have cost us. Hopefully we are in a better place going into Omagh next week. We know we can match Tyrone. We won yesterday. The Derry defeat is done now and our season has moved on. Tyrone lost their first game and are under pressure to win. We hate the sight of them and that alone will bring the performance levels up. There are doubts around this team, as there are with most, because the likelihood is that one of Mayo, Kerry, Galway or Dublin will win the All Ireland, but that's not say that we can't go deep into the Championship, cause a few shocks and show that we are a top team on our day and have struggles like most teams do.
 

thehighballinlow

Active Member
Do you think that people that don’t bother going to matches (outside of genuine reasons) sitting at home , ready to critique the team mostly negatively are good supporters ? Are there a cohort of these people in this forum ?
But can you tell that anyone on this fourm wasnt at the game for a genuine reason.

At half time in games i look at the forum to see if there is people Coming up with the same conclusion that i do. Supporters unable to attend something have the advantage of replays or rewind tv over supporters at the game.

Negitivity is part of any fan base (and yesterday @gograngego was wrong) but people who dont see any negitivity is looking thru rose tinted glasses.

At the end of the day MOST supporters want this team to succeed and its frustration when games like yesterday occur, But players and management will be equally if not more fustrated.
 

stevie_06

Well-Known Member
Having woken up this morning the main feeling is we got the win. It wasn't a great performance but don't think it was as bad as some people have said.

First half we should have been ahead. Few poor misses and the goal chance should have been taken. Think somebody else alluded to it but if the goal had went in pretty confident it would have been game over.

Thought there were a few good performances yesterday. Personally felt Forker, Murnin and Crealey all played well and were the best of the bunch.

Main thing is we have 2 points on the board. After losing ulster final winning next game was all that mattered. Should also be noted that both Kerry and Derry failed to win after winning Munster and Ulster (albeit against stronger opposition)

Looking forward to the Tyrone match and we will have to play a lot better. Do I feel we are capable of going there and getting the win. I do.

Still feel that some of the comments posted here during the match were a complete disgrace
 

Armaghmad00

Active Member
Jesus did anyone listen to Paddy Andrews before the game on commentary. He talks some rubbish and for murphy he never has anything good to say about about.
 

Wide ball

Well-Known Member
Just reading some of Oisin McConville's comments before the game and I think he had it pretty much nailed on.

"They should win," the 2002 All-Ireland winner said of the Westmeath game.

"Therein lies the problem though. If there's any sense of complacency, any hangover from the Derry game, which no doubt there will be, we're talking about human beings here.

"That was a bit of a setback for Armagh. There's no point in saying any different. The fact that they haven't got silverware now probably increases the pressure on them a little bit."

He added: "This is a good game to get them back on track. I don't expect Armagh start quickly but I'd expect them to get the job done."


I think that I'm as guilty as everyone else of forgetting that these guys aren't robots. They are human beings. They will have been devastated after the loss to Derry, especially with how it happened. The mental toll that would take on you in a sporting sense would be immense and one that not many people can relate to, as so few of us play elite level sport. To think that they could just put it behind them, move on and produce a top class display yesterday, is naive. They would have been feeling pressure and uncertainty going into this game. That doesn't excuse some of what we saw yesterday, but if you put it into context, you can see why they struggled in the second half.

First half I thought we very good for the most part. We left an easy 1-5 behind in the first half (Rian's goal effort and a free he dragged wide, Ben Crealy should have hand passed over the bar instead of trying to set up Duffy, Soupy and Grugan dropped easy chances short and Nugent had a bad wide), which would have put us in total control. These chances all came before their goal, which happened after a great turnover by Rian on the wing, then burning their defence for pace before dropping a bad shot short from a tight angle when a better option should have been taken, which they the counter attacked from. So in this regard, I'd argue that we did start well, did show purpose and attacking intent, saw diving blocks, created turnovers, but we let ourselves down by not converting our chances. If a team is mentally fragile, then those things will weigh even heavier on you. You have the mental baggage from the Derry defeat, you're in a must win game at home against a team you should beat, you've been entirely on top, carved out some good openings with some good play, but you haven't taken your chances and now they've gone and scored a goal out of nowhere and all of a sudden the pressure is really on. That is going to have an effect on you.

I think we saw that pressure in effect in the second half. Westmeath were more than happy to hold onto the ball and frustrate the team and the fans. The more time they had the ball, with clock rolling by, the fans were getting rightly nervous and agitated, which was feeding onto the pitch, which naturally has an effect on the team. That's when you need strong leadership from those on the pitch to start making things happen, work harder to force mistakes and create turnovers and get the fans up for it. That's where I think we were poor in the second half. We were too passive in not putting them under pressure to get the ball back. Westmeath had that buffer of a goal and whenever we'd score a few points, to draw within a score, they would come up with one, which would set us back again. I'd argue that all of this has a spiralling effect. When we did win the ball back, we'd try to force the play and coughed up possession. The more that happens, the more it will happen. Throw in the pressure they were under to win, the mental doubts from the Derry game, then I can understand why it was a nervy performance. While the second half was bad, I can see a lot of contributing factors to it. I give them massive credit for finding the courage to win the game. The likes of Murnin, Mackin, O'Neill and Rafferty produced some big plays to win us the game. With all that went on before this game and when you look at Oisin McConville's comments, I think the game panned out this way.

One thing that I did find worrying though was the two goal kicks at the end, which were as bad as you'd see at this level. Again, pressure and doubt forces mistakes and those were two really bad ones, that should have cost us. Hopefully we are in a better place going into Omagh next week. We know we can match Tyrone. We won yesterday. The Derry defeat is done now and our season has moved on. Tyrone lost their first game and are under pressure to win. We hate the sight of them and that alone will bring the performance levels up. There are doubts around this team, as there are with most, because the likelihood is that one of Mayo, Kerry, Galway or Dublin will win the All Ireland, but that's not say that we can't go deep into the Championship, cause a few shocks and show that we are a top team on our day and have struggles like most teams do.
This is a great post and couldn't agree more, I do remember a few years ago in division 3 we where well ahead and threw games away a few times, and that's a positive I have from yesterday that this team now has in them, it's a positive I took from the league also that although defensive we where competitive in every game, I think we will raise our game for next week and that game is close to 50/50, I understand some post during the match are purely frustration but everyone here wants the best for Armagh, this Armagh team is a great bunch of lads that has brought great days to the fans and have done is proud even in defeat by playing a way we all like and are proud of, I don't mind tweaks of this to try and reach next level, roll on next week!!!
 

thecritic

Well-Known Member
Having woken up this morning the main feeling is we got the win. It wasn't a great performance but don't think it was as bad as some people have said.

First half we should have been ahead. Few poor misses and the goal chance should have been taken. Think somebody else alluded to it but if the goal had went in pretty confident it would have been game over.

Thought there were a few good performances yesterday. Personally felt Forker, Murnin and Crealey all played well and were the best of the bunch.

Main thing is we have 2 points on the board. After losing ulster final winning next game was all that mattered. Should also be noted that both Kerry and Derry failed to win after winning Munster and Ulster (albeit against stronger opposition)

Looking forward to the Tyrone match and we will have to play a lot better. Do I feel we are capable of going there and getting the win. I do.

Still feel that some of the comments posted here during the match were a complete disgrace
I agree with a lot here Stevie. I had a look back there at comments during the game and bar 2 comments from the gogrange guy, I can't see anything disgraceful, just opinions etc and comments about the poor performance. Is it just those 2 comments you're referring to?
 
Can’t argue that was a poor performance, but looking how Derry performed yesterday the Ulster final obviously took a lot out of both teams. Another factor in the team’s performance in the last two games i.e. poor shot selection and decisions in general. I think is that in both games we went behind early on and spent the rest of the game chasing from behind.
 

stevie_06

Well-Known Member
I agree with a lot here Stevie. I had a look back there at comments during the game and bar 2 comments from the gogrange guy, I can't see anything disgraceful, just opinions etc and comments about the poor performance. Is it just those 2 comments you're referring to?
Yeah it was gogrange guy I was referencing. There were 3 or 4 comments that were completely uncalled for and lacked any kind of constructive argument other than Geezer out.

Have read back comments from other poster and they are all just opinions on the match. Some I agree with and some I don't. But have no issue with them.

Blood was boiling yesterday with the aforementioned poster. Calling for manager to be sacked before match is even over. Jaysus maybe just watch the whole of match first.

At that stage I had a few tins of the apple juice in me as well :p
 

Gaamaniac

Active Member
Why were we so cautious in our approach yesterday. We scored a goal from playing of the scruff. Not enjoyable watching this team of super players be so so cautious and it near cost us yesterday
 

Berfaboy77

Active Member
Last nights game reminded me of the Sligo match in Croke park where we got a draw by the skin of our teeth & we all know what happens that year.

Armagh certainly had a hangover from the UF as did Derry, I think the players deserve gr8 credit for actually winning that game last night. Also to be fair Westmeath were excellent.

It was gr8 to see a reaction feed m Turbitt & Murninan, they really got us over the line. Bring on Tyrone
 

POINTMAN

Well-Known Member
Why were we so cautious in our approach yesterday. We scored a goal from playing of the scruff. Not enjoyable watching this team of super players be so so cautious and it near cost us yesterday
I agree with this - why were we so cautious and stand-offish, even when we were behind? I would have thought a good rollicking at half time would see us come storming out and set the pace. What did we get?

Also, a few of our players are poor on the ball especially when they have lots of time - so a quicker release of the ball would suit those individuals.
I agree that if we had taken our chances in the first 15 minutes (could have had an extra 1-5) - we would likely have won easily. But we didn't, and only got the win due to a rather flukey goal.

We can continue to hope for a longer run in this AI but unless we can find our form, and a more attacking less cautious approach, we are not going to win many games against the likes of Tyrone, Galway and whoever else we might get (Roscommon or Kerry or Monaghan maybe).

Oh - and I only attend about a third of our games, so maybe my opinion is not allowed on here ?????
 
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