For the wages we are paying geezer and I’d imagine donaghys pay cheque is similarly very large too, not sure about mckeever but overall for our management team wages we would be able in my opinion to pay for any top class management team in Ireland. There’s no excuses
All Ireland series
- Thread starter William Of Orange
- Start date
Jamie's Coffee
Active Member
Gutting again this year…probably more so. Over the last few years the side has failed to close out games from a winning position. Different players have been involved but the constant has been the manager. This isn’t an attack but I think we need a new pair of eyes, a different process and new thinking because it appears this group has plateaued and need something else to take them further.
There’s no doubt that our mindset & style of play feeds into a negativity and surely we should ‘go for it’ in games as it suits our players - again perhaps a reason to change things on the line.
I can also only hope that Murnin, Soupy, Grugan, Forker et al look to the likes of Karl O’Connell, Darren Hughes & Connor McManus who are 35+ and still tearing it up at this stage.
There’s no doubt that our mindset & style of play feeds into a negativity and surely we should ‘go for it’ in games as it suits our players - again perhaps a reason to change things on the line.
I can also only hope that Murnin, Soupy, Grugan, Forker et al look to the likes of Karl O’Connell, Darren Hughes & Connor McManus who are 35+ and still tearing it up at this stage.
Armaghabroad22
Active Member
Interesting that Tyrone also got put out that day in the second fixture.
Oh god, I just remember the quarter final defeat to Wexford in 2008.
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Overall an extremely disappointing way to exit the championship and I don’t mean going to sudden death penalties. I wasn’t confident at all when we drew Monaghan, although on paper it was probably seen as an ‘easier’ draw, I knew they’d cause us problems.
I hate to be critical of players and management but we really are masters of our own downfall. There were chances for Armagh to twist the knife and seize the initiative and we absolutely flopped. Fine margins and all that but some of decision-making from both players and management, especially when we were gifted a black card decision, were utterly baffling.
I think there’s more in this team and talk of players retiring is a bit pre-mature. At management level though it’s maybe time to pass the baton on to someone else.
I hate to be critical of players and management but we really are masters of our own downfall. There were chances for Armagh to twist the knife and seize the initiative and we absolutely flopped. Fine margins and all that but some of decision-making from both players and management, especially when we were gifted a black card decision, were utterly baffling.
I think there’s more in this team and talk of players retiring is a bit pre-mature. At management level though it’s maybe time to pass the baton on to someone else.
JoeH
Well-Known Member
What wages?
If you're going to mention this mention figures and not made up shite.
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
We've lost 3 penalty shootouts in a year. I'd say that's evidence we didn't practice something enough
Lol aye he's doing it for nothing
Disagree with the best forwards in Ireland bit, a few on here come up with this statement but where is the evidences they had the chances yesterday and didn't take them.
This is what frustrates me about people calling for mcgeeneys head because we don’t play attacking football enough, you’re off your ear if you think any of those names come in and try to play some form of high octane, 3 man full forward line, attacking football. More likely we lose mcgeeney, followed by the raft of players around 32/33 over the next couple of years, then head into the wilderness like Kildare did when he left. What is the point in that.
I felt the first period of extra time exemplified the game and our season as a whole. We scored an early point, were set up well and worked hard to make a couple of really valuable turnovers, only to kick two really really poor wides within scoring range under little pressure. Then we gave up possession with an optimistic long ball from midfield to full forward line (which apparently we need to do more of..?). Then a very silly foul on the 21 and Monaghan tap it over to go in level when we should’ve been 3 points ahead. If we get even one of those scores and don’t give away that stupid free, no one is complaining about tactics.
Then the last free kick was another moment of madness all round. We seemed to be worried about a long ball in for a goal, but they were never going to do that. Where I was sitting we could clearly see 11 was standing free to take the easy pass from beggan. How different would things be if someone had simply went over to mark him so the pass wasn’t on and forced beggan to have a shot or even play a riskier pass.
ragingbull
Well-Known Member
Malachy O'Rourke as manager Conleith Gilligan as his number 2
JoeH
Well-Known Member
I think that's very unfair regarding yesterday
Superb penalties taken and the longer it went on it was always going to be one unfortunate miss that would end it.
Monaghan manager, maybe tongue in cheek, said they didn't practice at all
I think a better solution is hitting frees from the top of the 'D'.
Their no11 was free a lot all day
Gutted for all involved but in reality that game played out exactly as I suspected it would. Bumped into a Tipp friend yesterday morning and we were discussing the game. Both agreed it would be a dour, low scoring game. Likely ET and Monaghan would be hard to beat. I don’t know if anyone expected it to be easy but if they did that was very disrespectful to a team who avoided relegation, unlike us. The format of the championship this year has meant that 8 of the top 12 teams in the National league made the 1/4 finals so it is reflective of where teams are at. 2 of the top 6 are in the semis with 1 possible more in Mayo. This means the cream generally rises to the top. We are not there yet despite what people think.
On the game it was a situation of having 2 teams afraid to lose as opposed to going for the win. We played constipated in my opinion and didn’t go for the win. I think if we did then we would have won it out in normal time. The whole concept of results at all costs has meant that teams as a whole have forgotten how to win, apart from the top few teams. Management outside of 2-3 teams won’t let them play and as a consequence you will repeatedly have Kerry, Dublin and Mayo in the last 4 with Kerry or Dublin dominating with the odd breakthrough like ourselves in 2002, the Tyrone team on 2021 and Donegal under McGuinness. Tyrone under Harte were different as they went for it. If we had won in 2003 we would have had another 1-2 as well but unfortunately we are a one hit wonder. I have been a broken record about comparing how Monaghan run their whole systems to us. Smaller playing groups but very well run leagues that are competitive. Strong schools and underage structures which had repeatedly generated solid players. We do not have that and as a consequence no matter who is the manager will always have limits to what they can do. We spent years clapping ourselves on the back after 2002 without doing the proper ground work and as a consequence 2 great under age teams from 2004 and 2009 have been ‘lost’. We have produced more ‘experts’ from 2002 that I’d say any team in history. I think 7-8 have managed at inter county or senior club at a very high level (with very limited success bar 2-3 I might add). I might be wrong but Tony Mc and Oisin are the most consistently successful.
There will be calls for the management to be replaced, and I understand that, but I also think they have been hampered to an extent by an unrealistic expectation of what this group can do. I personally believe there should be new management next year but simply on the basis that I think this group has been taken as far as it can under the current set up. A new voice and new approach may see an improvement but that’s not a negative reflection on the work done in the last few years. I just think it is stale and ‘same voice’ syndrome is there.
An overall rethink of where the county is must happen. We have tried top down for success, it hasn’t worked. I don’t believe we have given bottom up enough work. In terms of the people over the senior team we may need to look outside the county. Look at the improvements to Louth, Derry, and even Kerry bringing paddy tally in. Maybe need to look at a Malachy O Rourke with the right locals around him.
On the game it was a situation of having 2 teams afraid to lose as opposed to going for the win. We played constipated in my opinion and didn’t go for the win. I think if we did then we would have won it out in normal time. The whole concept of results at all costs has meant that teams as a whole have forgotten how to win, apart from the top few teams. Management outside of 2-3 teams won’t let them play and as a consequence you will repeatedly have Kerry, Dublin and Mayo in the last 4 with Kerry or Dublin dominating with the odd breakthrough like ourselves in 2002, the Tyrone team on 2021 and Donegal under McGuinness. Tyrone under Harte were different as they went for it. If we had won in 2003 we would have had another 1-2 as well but unfortunately we are a one hit wonder. I have been a broken record about comparing how Monaghan run their whole systems to us. Smaller playing groups but very well run leagues that are competitive. Strong schools and underage structures which had repeatedly generated solid players. We do not have that and as a consequence no matter who is the manager will always have limits to what they can do. We spent years clapping ourselves on the back after 2002 without doing the proper ground work and as a consequence 2 great under age teams from 2004 and 2009 have been ‘lost’. We have produced more ‘experts’ from 2002 that I’d say any team in history. I think 7-8 have managed at inter county or senior club at a very high level (with very limited success bar 2-3 I might add). I might be wrong but Tony Mc and Oisin are the most consistently successful.
There will be calls for the management to be replaced, and I understand that, but I also think they have been hampered to an extent by an unrealistic expectation of what this group can do. I personally believe there should be new management next year but simply on the basis that I think this group has been taken as far as it can under the current set up. A new voice and new approach may see an improvement but that’s not a negative reflection on the work done in the last few years. I just think it is stale and ‘same voice’ syndrome is there.
An overall rethink of where the county is must happen. We have tried top down for success, it hasn’t worked. I don’t believe we have given bottom up enough work. In terms of the people over the senior team we may need to look outside the county. Look at the improvements to Louth, Derry, and even Kerry bringing paddy tally in. Maybe need to look at a Malachy O Rourke with the right locals around him.
PutTheHighBallInLow
Active Member
When the county board fail to give financial figures, year on year.
I doubt anyone on here can
Lads I’ve praised Armagh when they’ve won and played well unlike other people on here who only jump on when we’re beat … and one in particular just like a dog with a bone puts the knife in for about 20 posts in a row… where were you when we won?
BUT the time has definitely come for a change and a new direction in management .
Yesterday we should’ve been going out and beating Monaghan to reach a semifinal but no we take off our best corner forward and replace him with a player who will defend and also has never started all year … to me that set the tone and mentality of the team for the match… as Jason Duffy said after the Galway game that pushing up on kick outs and attacking gave the the mentality to win…the exact opposite happened yesterday. The same as the ulster final… two attacking players where replaced by two corner backs.. how is that a mentality to win?
I’m not as great as some on here at my English and writing but fuck me if all that is not down to management I gave up… has to be a change and quickly
gael_force_orchard
Well-Known Member
Derry struggled against us in an Ulster final and against Monaghan in the groups. They are even more overrated than we are