All Ireland series

stevie_06

Well-Known Member
Yes, it was obvious Beggan did not want to shoot and we should have forced him to. I was shouting to push up and not let him go short because I just knew they would try to work a free closer in. Again, our line seems to get caught up in the emotions of those last plays, arguably when we need them most. Corey provided a great juxtaposition on this occasion - thinking hat always on and composure at all times.
Agree it looked like at one stage he was going to shoot but was reluctant to.

I know Geezer has said the ref said it was the last kick. But going by monaghan players at the time he appeared to indicate there was one minute left.

Suppose of Beggan had kicked it over we would be saying fair play and accept it.

Think the issue was we give him an easy sideways pass and they worked it from there.

Can't remember but I know we had a man down right before the free. But did they go off the field leaving Monaghan with an extra man.

Think somebody also mentioned. But after Rian got his point we seemed to let them out very easy. Again could we have pushed up and forced them long.
 

stevie_06

Well-Known Member
Interesting to see if Geezer stays on as I think he has another year left? If he does he needs a whole new back room team and needs to think carefully about his no.2. That's no disrespect to the current team - they have given serious commitment to the county but I think we're all clear now that we need a freshen-up and probably best if Geezer steps away.
I'm a big fan of Donaghy. Would like to see him still being involved
 

GAAGael

Active Member
Whatever your thoughts on McGeeney, you are way out of order with this comment
Man is entitled to make a living
I simply mentioned it's likely not an 'average' salary given his recent purchases. Nowhere did I mention my thoughts re: this or his entitlement to such a salary. Bite somewhere else.
 

GAAGael

Active Member
Interesting to see if Geezer stays on as I think he has another year left? If he does he needs a whole new back room team and needs to think carefully about his no.2. That's no disrespect to the current team - they have given serious commitment to the county but I think we're all clear now that we need a freshen-up and probably best if Geezer steps away.
I think Geezers downfall is his loyalty - very tightknit backroom team with little to no change in the 9-10 years. I would expect him to walk away quicker than change things up
 

Onlooker

Active Member
Interesting to see if Geezer stays on as I think he has another year left? If he does he needs a whole new back room team and needs to think carefully about his no.2. That's no disrespect to the current team - they have given serious commitment to the county but I think we're all clear now that we need a freshen-up and probably best if Geezer steps away.
I don't know where people get this information of "geezers contract". It is ratified by the club delegates once a year, usually the next county board meeting after the season is over.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, BUT if we are going to go in a new direction we have to make sure we can get the right man/people in place. Kieran has done a steller job for Armagh. He took us from division 3 where we could not get out of to division 1 (albeit back to division 2). Kieran has helped bring back the fans and great days out. I remember going to division 3 league games and the athletic grounds was half empty.
 

Armagh_paul

Well-Known Member
I think Geezers downfall is his loyalty - very tightknit backroom team with little to no change in the 9-10 years. I would expect him to walk away quicker than change things up

I don't think this is entirely true. He has changed his backroom team a number of times over the years.

You could see Donaghy making an impact on the forwards but defence is the problem. Can we really say the defensive problems were fixed in comparison to last year? IMO we went out to a worse team than last year.
 

Patrick-Armagh

Well-Known Member
Watched some of OTB AM this morning and they had Anthony Moyles on reviewing the weekend. I take what these talking heads say with a pinch of salt a lot of the time, because they don't see enough of teams to get a true reflection of how teams are really going. The word that kept coming up in regards to Armagh was negativity and has been for most of the season. We were far too negative and it cost us. Monaghan wanted us to slow it down and make it a slug fest. If we had actually gone for it a bit more, we would have won it by a couple of points. He referenced the Ulster Final where the same thing happened. In the two biggest games of the year, we lost it because we didn't believe in ourselves and really go for it. We set up not to lose, instead of to win. I totally agree. Sadly a lot of that comes down to the management and how we set up. The county board need to be asking serious questions about that.
 

POINTMAN

Well-Known Member
Watched some of OTB AM this morning and they had Anthony Moyles on reviewing the weekend. I take what these talking heads say with a pinch of salt a lot of the time, because they don't see enough of teams to get a true reflection of how teams are really going. The word that kept coming up in regards to Armagh was negativity and has been for most of the season. We were far too negative and it cost us. Monaghan wanted us to slow it down and make it a slug fest. If we had actually gone for it a bit more, we would have won it by a couple of points. He referenced the Ulster Final where the same thing happened. In the two biggest games of the year, we lost it because we didn't believe in ourselves and really go for it. We set up not to lose, instead of to win. I totally agree. Sadly a lot of that comes down to the management and how we set up. The county board need to be asking serious questions about that.
Many of us have been saying that for some time now - the team is set up not to lose rather than going for a win (being conscious that you cannot simply go all out attack). But we need to be a little more adventurous, especially with the quality of forwards at our disposal.
I think we need a new man at the helm - a new philosophy and way of playing. Bring a bit more confidence on to the field.
The current overly cautious approach is not working and has cost us against Derry and Monaghan in the last few weeks.
 

Patrick-Armagh

Well-Known Member
Many of us have been saying that for some time now - the team is set up not to lose rather than going for a win (being conscious that you cannot simply go all out attack). But we need to be a little more adventurous, especially with the quality of forwards at our disposal.
I think we need a new man at the helm - a new philosophy and way of playing. Bring a bit more confidence on to the field.
The current overly cautious approach is not working and has cost us against Derry and Monaghan in the last few weeks.
I was willing to overlook it during the League, as it appeared like we were trying to layer in different styles of play into our system which all teams have. As you say, it can't be all out attack. I've just been shocked that this style of play was the dominant style throughout the season. It's only been against weaker opposition that we took the handbrake off a bit. But against the bigger sides, we were so passive and afraid of what they might do, that we didn't play well at all. When you look back over the season, the Kerry and Galway games in the league and the Derry, Tyrone and Monaghan games in the Championship were ones which really stood out as us lacking that bit of ambition and bravery to go and a get a statement win.
 

Armamike

Active Member
This game was a carbon copy of the Ulster final. Eeerily similar. Same style of play from us and the opponent, same black card incident, penalties and same outcome. I don't think it's a coincidence or bad luck that we've found ourselves in two penalty situations this year, and one last year. We haven't been able to finish the job in normal time. I've found the lack of goals very frustrating. We created goal chances on Saturday but again couldn't take one. Monaghan didn't create any, unless you count the one half chance that blazed over the bar. In these kinds of matches, we take one of those chances and it's probably enough to get the win. We just are lacking that level of certainty and decision making in front of goal. It shows itself in the option to take a fisted point rather than throw a dummy and side step the keeper. We see it too when the ball is laid off to another forward who inevitably gets smothered by the keeper and gets blocked, or has to take the fisted point. It's hurt us badly this year and last. I haven't heard this mentioned much in all the post match analysis this year and last. The area that the Sunday game focused on, and all the podcasts will too probably, is the sitting deep tactic. We just don't do it very well. Sitting deep is fine in itself if it leads to turnovers and counters. But looking at the Derry and Monaghan games, we got very few turnovers, and of the ones we do, we tend not to translate them into counters that lead to scores because we can't counter quickly enough or have an out ball for us up the pitch. We don't get turnovers because we sit off too much. In the games I've been at this year, Derry, Westmeath and Monaghan all had the time to pretty much do what they pleased with their possession building out from the back and when getting into our half. If they wanted to keep the ball for 2, 3.4 minutes and then decide to take a shot, they could, and we were relying on them kicking it wide by that stage. Sitting deep keeps out the goals, but it doesn't prevent the other side kicking points. It's a tactic that's not working for us as we've been beaten (Derry/Monaghan) or been very close to losing (Westmeath). Gaelic football is about intensity and passion or as it used to be called, getting stuck in. Standing off isn't an option. Looking at Kerry against Tyrone, they sat deep, but they made bloody sure they were breathing down their necks, getting a hand or foot in to get the ball away and making life very uncomfortable for the Tyrone forwards who were playing with their back to goal and not able to get turned. Contrast that to us sitting, 2 or more yards off and letting them play in front of us. The other thing I thought hurt us badly against Monaghan was just not enough movement from our forwards when we were trying to break them down. There were times when we needed somebody to break away from their marker and try a run in behind into space for a quick ball over the top of the defender. It just wasn't happening enough.

All in all a very frustrating feel to the season and a sense that we've let key matches slip through our fingers. A lot of unknowns now looking forward to next year. Unfortunately unless you're a Kerry or Dublin most seasons end in pain for their supporters. Our's is at the higher end of the pain spectrum because of the nature of the defeats and the feeling that there is an Ulster in this team. I don't think Derry and Monaghan are particularly great (in terms of AI potential) or any better than us, and the semi finals will be as far as they can go. But the nagging feeling will be that we could and should have beaten both of them this year.
 
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Armagh_paul

Well-Known Member
This game was a carbon copy of the Ulster final. Eeerily similar. Same style of play from us and the opponent, same black card incident, penalties and same outcome. I don't think it's a coincidence or bad luck that we've found itself in two penalty situations this year, and one last year. We haven't been able to finish the job in normal time. I've found the lack of goals very frustrating. We created goal chances on Saturday but again couldn't take one. Monaghan didn't create any, unless you count the one half chance that blazed over the bar. In these kinds of matches, we take one of those chances and it's probably enough to get the win. We just are lacking that level of certainty and decision making in front of goal. It shows itself in the option to take a fisted point rather than throw a dummy and side step the keeper. We see it too when the ball is laid off to another forward who inevitably gets smothered by the keeper and gets blocked, or has to take the fisted point. It's hurt us badly this year and last. I haven't heard this mentioned much in all the post match analysis this year and last. The area that the Sunday game focused on, and all the podcasts will too probably, is the sitting deep tactic. We just don't do it very well. Sitting deep is fine in itself if it leads to turnovers and counters. But looking at the Derry and Monaghan games, we got very few turnovers, and of the ones we do, we tend not to translate them into counters that lead to scores because we can't counter quickly enough or have an out ball for us up the pitch. We don't get turnovers because we sit off too much. In the games I've been at this year, Derry, Westmeath and Monaghan all had the time to pretty much do what they pleased with their possession building out from the back and when getting into our half. If they wanted to keep the ball for 2, 3.4 minutes and then decide to take a shot, they could, and we were relying on them kicking it wide by that stage. Sitting deep keeps out the goals, but it doesn't prevent the other side kicking points. It's a tactic that's not working for us as we've been beaten (Derry/Monaghan) or been very close to losing (Westmeath). Gaelic football is about intensity and passion or as it used to be called, getting stuck in. Standing off isn't an option. Looking at Kerry against Tyrone, they sat deep, but they made bloody sure they were breathing down their necks, getting a hand or foot in to get the ball away and making life very uncomfortable for the Tyrone forwards who were playing with their back to goal and not able to get turned. Contrast that to us sitting, 2 or more yards off and letting them play in front of us. The other thing I thought hurt us badly against Monaghan was just not enough movement from our forwards when we were trying to break them down. There were times when we needed somebody to break away from their marker and try a run in behind into space for a quick ball over the top of the defender. It just wasn't happening enough.

All in all a very frustrating feel to the season and a sense that we've let key matches slip through our fingers. A lot of unknowns now looking forward to next year. Unfortunately unless you're a Kerry or Dublin most seasons end in pain for their supporters. Our's is at the higher end of the pain spectrum because of the nature of the defeats and the feeling that there is an Ulster in this team. I don't think Derry and Monaghan are particularly great (in terms of AI potential) or any better than us, and the semi finals will be as far as they can go. But the nagging feeling will be that we could and should have beaten both of them this year.

I think at one point I counted 3 forwards all sitting around the square - no movement into space, just standing there walking into Monaghan defenders. It was annoying to watch, space in front of them they should have been tiring them out. They're the ones that were playing the last few weeks.
 

ShiftYa

Well-Known Member
Saw a clip of that messing on the hill on social media there now. Some shocking comments, the anti north stuff, bordering on hatred. There's not much love out there for our team or support, which is disappointing as I know full well the financial and time efforts we all put in to follow the lads.
There’s not much love for anything on twitter, wouldn’t be too worried about it.

Hardly expecting anyone to applaud or defend them antics?
 

Banjocelt

Member
No, definitely not, genuine criticism overstepping the mark into darker stuff is unacceptable though.
You are right about social media, it provides a platform for all sorts
 

Wee man

Well-Known Member
I simply mentioned it's likely not an 'average' salary given his recent purchases. Nowhere did I mention my thoughts re: this or his entitlement to such a salary. Bite somewhere else.
The man should be judged on his merits as manager
Just because he is county manager does not give you or any fan the right to comment on his personal affairs
What’s next, should we start perusing his bank accounts, see where he’s off to on holidays ??
And just to be clear, I am of the opinion it is time for a management change but there is a line and you crossed it
 

Hoops

Member
Who mentioned high octane attacking football?
We all accept that every team now defends enmasse but the best teams also attackers. We seem to sit back far too much.

This is a supporters forum and we are all entitled to our views. I support Arnagh no matter who is involved or managing - I want the best for the team. In my view, Geezer as a manager has not got as much out of the teams over the years as he should have. I believe a top manager would have achieved more with thevplayers we have had over the last 3 or 4 years. Hence time for change. Not being vindictive- just wanting the best for my county.
The main criticism of mcgeeney is that he is too negative or not attacking enough. I’m asking who is this top level attack minded manager who would come in to replace mcgeeney?

Further on in that post I described how we missed a few easy scores and made silly defensive errors which has cost us winnable games all year. Simple mistakes plagued us against Derry in the ulster final and against Tyrone in Omagh. If our forwards had the quality to take those scores, no one is complaining about tactics in any of those games, and in my opinion, tactics aren’t the reason we lost on Saturday.

If we have this high quality squad and mcgeeney is underperforming, then why do our important players routinely make those simple mistakes? Will they not still miss free kicks and shots under little pressure with a new manager?
 

thecritic

Well-Known Member
Agree it looked like at one stage he was going to shoot but was reluctant to.

I know Geezer has said the ref said it was the last kick. But going by monaghan players at the time he appeared to indicate there was one minute left.

Suppose of Beggan had kicked it over we would be saying fair play and accept it.

Think the issue was we give him an easy sideways pass and they worked it from there.

Can't remember but I know we had a man down right before the free. But did they go off the field leaving Monaghan with an extra man.

Think somebody also mentioned. But after Rian got his point we seemed to let them out very easy. Again could we have pushed up and forced them long.
Definitely Stevie - that point from Rian put us in the winning position but winning the next possession was the winning of the game.
When Rian scored he's pointing to the sky and Ethan was shoving into him - I would have expected to see lads pointing and picking up players etc.
Rian also seemed to run right back to our full back line leaving his man - almost like this was an instruction. Again it's get a point ahead and sit back like drawing is OK as long as we don't lose.
Moving forward, I'd love to just see more bravery if in a similar position again - cool heads, tight marking, doubling-up on danger men but on the front foot in the closing moments.
It's been our achilles heal since Galway last year and even this year when we had Galway beat, we tried to break one of their players in 2 in the last tackle to concede a needless free.
As Frank the Tank would say - we've got to keep our composure!!!!
 
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