Armagh U17s/U20s

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Bo Darville

Active Member
Don’t recall ever watching a worse game of football than the one I sat through in Armagh tonight. Felt sorry for those young lads, I’m sure they are all talented players but questions have to be asked of both management teams as to why they set up the way they did. If this is the future for Armagh football then we are in real trouble.
 
T

thecritic

Well-Known Member
Very poor game but the best team won - Derry simply had more talented players on the pitch. They are still very young but definitely didn't see anything that would excite me last night. Armagh played very negatively but in fairness to McKeever Derry hammered them a couple of weeks back so it was a damage-limitation job last night from what I could see!
 
Big Jim

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
Sadly didn't get after being at all but one of the league games, as I had a wedding to go to - yes I got permission!

Really disappointed in that scoreline, but pleased as well because of the tanking they got last day out against Derry. I'm presuming like @thecritic that was the reason they set out to defend, because they weren't massively defensive in the league. There is some talent in the team, but they don't sound like a team for some reason, reading above and what I've seen so far. Maybe a week in Portugal would sort that!!

Hard on lads when all they want is to play and make their family and friends proud. Hope they can shake it off quickly! I wouldn't be just as harsh @Bo Darville but do agree it doesn't bode well, especially with the school's talent we've seen over the last couple of years.

With 5 teams in the qualifiers, anyone any idea what way the first round qualifiers works??
 
PatMustard

PatMustard

Well-Known Member
Our Forecast Competition is now open.

Why not have a go with the predictions for Week 1...

http://orchardfans.com/index.php?threads/championship-forecast-competition-2019.395/

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Ard Mhacha 13

Ard Mhacha 13

Well-Known Member
Calm1 said:
Sadly didn't get after being at all but one of the league games, as I had a wedding to go to - yes I got permission!

Really disappointed in that scoreline, but pleased as well because of the tanking they got last day out against Derry. I'm presuming like @thecritic that was the reason they set out to defend, because they weren't massively defensive in the league. There is some talent in the team, but they don't sound like a team for some reason, reading above and what I've seen so far. Maybe a week in Portugal would sort that!!

Hard on lads when all they want is to play and make their family and friends proud. Hope they can shake it off quickly! I wouldn't be just as harsh @Bo Darville but do agree it doesn't bode well, especially with the school's talent we've seen over the last couple of years.

With 5 teams in the qualifiers, anyone any idea what way the first round qualifiers works??
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Was trying to work out the qualifiers situation myself today, they are not making it easy to understand!!! The fixture list I looked at had 1 match for "Qualifiers Round 1" i.e 2 teams, then a "Round 2" with 4 teams & then "Qualifiers Round 2" again with 4 teams. If anyone can explain it to me it would be appreciated :)
 
Ard Mhacha 13

Ard Mhacha 13

Well-Known Member
U17 Qualifier Round 1

Armagh v Antrim (Athletic Grounds 6pm)

Especially for @ragingbull it's this Saturday the 4th of May. Mind you I thought it would have featured on your twitter feed.
 
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pablo

pablo

Well-Known Member
Calm1 said:
Sadly didn't get after being at all but one of the league games, as I had a wedding to go to - yes I got permission!

Really disappointed in that scoreline, but pleased as well because of the tanking they got last day out against Derry. I'm presuming like @thecritic that was the reason they set out to defend, because they weren't massively defensive in the league. There is some talent in the team, but they don't sound like a team for some reason, reading above and what I've seen so far. Maybe a week in Portugal would sort that!!

Hard on lads when all they want is to play and make their family and friends proud. Hope they can shake it off quickly! I wouldn't be just as harsh @Bo Darville but do agree it doesn't bode well, especially with the school's talent we've seen over the last couple of years.

With 5 teams in the qualifiers, anyone any idea what way the first round qualifiers works??
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I ask this with the hopeful intent of some genuine discussion among us as Armagh fans-but what are our general thoughts about how we have been generally performing at underage level? I picked up an Irish News sitting around at work this afternoon and noted the report of this game that included a quote from Ciaran McKeever 'teams like Tyrone, Monaghan, Derry and Donegal were 10 points better than Armagh'. Is this because Armagh have a particularly young group that will come good in another year? Or more typical of what seems to be a pattern in that we are genuinely struggling at underage level and not at the level of other counties? We had a very decent U20 team last year-but my own feeling is that overall we seem not to be doing as well as we should. And if this is the case-why? We have three schools that are competitive at McCrory cup level, plus sizable representation among the Newry schools-surely the rare material and potential for a conveyor belt of talent is there? Derry and Monaghan do not have bigger populations or playing numbers to work with. Why do they always seem to be persistently ahead of us in putting out strong underage teams? I should say this is not at all meant to be hard on the lads who go out there and try their best. They are always deserving of the very best of support, respect and encouragement for going out there and representing the county. I just wonder what we as Armagh supporters generally feel about how we have been performing at underage and if we should be better and if so, how do we get there?
 
Jamie's Coffee

Jamie's Coffee

Active Member
pablo said:
I ask this with the hopeful intent of some genuine discussion among us as Armagh fans-but what are our general thoughts about how we have been generally performing at underage level? I picked up an Irish News sitting around at work this afternoon and noted the report of this game that included a quote from Ciaran McKeever 'teams like Tyrone, Monaghan, Derry and Donegal were 10 points better than Armagh'. Is this because Armagh have a particularly young group that will come good in another year? Or more typical of what seems to be a pattern in that we are genuinely struggling at underage level and not at the level of other counties? We had a very decent U20 team last year-but my own feeling is that overall we seem not to be doing as well as we should. And if this is the case-why? We have three schools that are competitive at McCrory cup level, plus sizable representation among the Newry schools-surely the rare material and potential for a conveyor belt of talent is there? Derry and Monaghan do not have bigger populations or playing numbers to work with. Why do they always seem to be persistently ahead of us in putting out strong underage teams? I should say this is not at all meant to be hard on the lads who go out there and try their best. They are always deserving of the very best of support, respect and encouragement for going out there and representing the county. I just wonder what we as Armagh supporters generally feel about how we have been performing at underage and if we should be better and if so, how do we get there?
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I agree that Armagh haven't been doing so well at Underage over the last number of years and its hard to knew exactly why that is. In regard to playing talent you make a good point re the schools and playing pool. One area I would point to though is the academy system. I know from attending sessions with club players over the last number of years that players do tend to fall away and become disillusioned with the system. One reason is because while prominent former county players head up the system, generally the coaches are not of county standard. Also Saturday mornings tend to be the time allotted for academy training & games. A lot of lads also play soccer on a Saturday morning and therefore there is direct competition between the 2 sports which on occasion the GAA will lose out. There is also a lot to be said for continuity in minor management. Think back to brother Ennis when he had success he and his team had been in post for a good few years. Paul McShane was in post (I think) for a few years and sure look at Mickey Harte when he was Tyrone Minor manager. We have changed managers quite a few times over the last number of years which perhaps hinders us too.
Overall its hard to say categorically but perhaps the above are factors.
 
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Nab14

Active Member
Ciaran mckeever made a good point in an interview recently, his job isn’t to win Ulster titles, it’s to produce players to play for the Armagh senior team for the next 10-15 year. The lack of succes may be frustrating but as long as the talent carries through to senior then I think it’s a worthwhile process. Look at the Derry teams of the last few years, they’ve been very competitive at underage but very little have carried through to senior as of yet.
 
JoeH

JoeH

Well-Known Member
Nab14 said:
Ciaran mckeever made a good point in an interview recently, his job isn’t to win Ulster titles, it’s to produce players to play for the Armagh senior team for the next 10-15 year. The lack of succes may be frustrating but as long as the talent carries through to senior then I think it’s a worthwhile process. Look at the Derry teams of the last few years, they’ve been very competitive at underage but very little have carried through to senior as of yet.
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Another thing that Ciaran mentioned in the paper was asking for club buy in and only 8 clubs bothered to attend open meetings.
If a player isn't being supported by his club and finds it different at the county level what other support does the player have to keep trying

I do think another tinker or two with rules is required to make the game more attractive at county level - four consecutive handpasses (to match the number of permitted steps) and any ball caught over the head within the 20m line can be a mark ( defensive and offensive)
I wouldn't worry about club level as the fitness levels are not the same and therefore games tend to be more open
 
ragingbull

ragingbull

Well-Known Member
PatMustard said:
What was the line-up?
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Team: Shea Magill, Peter McGrane, Ryan Shortt, Odhran McKeown, Lee Rice, Sean McVerry, Redmond French, Dara O’Callaghan (0-1), James Walsh, Michael McConville (0-1), Ciaran Donnelly (0-1), Sean Quigley, Caolan Reavey, Mark McKeever, Oisin King (0-1). Subs: Rory Kearney for S. Quigley, Jack Cunningham for J. Walsh, Sean Rocks for C. Donnelly, Adam Garvey for M. McConville, Shea Vallely for R. French, Niall Dummigan for L. Rice
 
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Nab14

Active Member
Yea read that too about the lack of club support. Very unfair on the young lads who have exams soon, county are meant to be the ones that are supposedly ‘flogging’ the players and yet no support from their own clubs coaches to try and balance their time.
 
D

DooReg

Active Member
Nab14 said:
Ciaran mckeever made a good point in an interview recently, his job isn’t to win Ulster titles, it’s to produce players to play for the Armagh senior team for the next 10-15 year. The lack of succes may be frustrating but as long as the talent carries through to senior then I think it’s a worthwhile process. Look at the Derry teams of the last few years, they’ve been very competitive at underage but very little have carried through to senior as of yet.
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When "academy" players are coached so negatively and not encouraged to go and play, does he really think these guys will want to play football with the senior county team in the future if this is a taste of the "system" they are going to have to fall into? Young lads want to play ball - not every man, woman and child behind the ball. Bugger that. They don't call us Tyrone. How do the players feel that the manager knew his team was 10 points worse that 4 other counties before he took the job? How exactly would he know this? Lads can develop from one year to the next. Very negative from the start me thinks which was displayed on Saturday night in abundance.

The real problem is that McKeever thinks that a 4 point defeat is a success. I'd rather get tanked and score more than four points in a game. It would be the same result - a loss. Has enjoyment gone out of our brilliant game altogether? I won't be gracing the AG to watch them this Saturday night that's for sure. I'll watch the darts or snooker instead for a bit of entertainment.
 
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niall1980

Well-Known Member
DooReg said:
When "academy" players are coached so negatively and not encouraged to go and play, does he really think these guys will want to play football with the senior county team in the future if this is a taste of the "system" they are going to have to fall into? Young lads want to play ball - not every man, woman and child behind the ball. Bugger that. They don't call us Tyrone. How do the players feel that the manager knew his team was 10 points worse that 4 other counties before he took the job? How exactly would he know this? Lads can develop from one year to the next. Very negative from the start me thinks which was displayed on Saturday night in abundance.

The real problem is that McKeever thinks that a 4 point defeat is a success. I'd rather get tanked and score more than four points in a game. It would be the same result - a loss. Has enjoyment gone out of our brilliant game altogether? I won't be gracing the AG to watch them this Saturday night that's for sure. I'll watch the darts or snooker instead for a bit of entertainment.
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I was agreeing with you. Until your last sentence. That’s a daft sentence
 
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