Armagh v Cavan - Ulster Semi-final and Replay

POINTMAN

Well-Known Member
I’ve to laugh at the people saying we let a 4 point lead slip, there was still 25 mins to be played whenever we were 4 point up.
So you do agree that we had a 4 point lead? Our attempts at keep-ball moving from midfield back to the full back line near the end cost us 2 points. If you are going to lose a ball at least lose it in the opponent's half.
Are we not allowed to give any constructive criticism on here?
 

PatMustard

Well-Known Member
Crealy had a bad miss.

The ref didn’t produce a yellow then red. He went to flash the red it got caught in his pocket so flashed it again

Oh aye, so he did.

Pretty sure he produced the yellow. Not fully above his head, but maybe face level before he produced red.
 

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
A good summary - I agree with most of what you say. Neither team deserved to lose or to win. But we were 4 points up and could not close it out.
Next day we need to keep our scoring forwards in the danger areas and then we have targets to hit when we come out of defence. Cavan are certainly beatable.
What chances for Oisin O'Neill and Murnin being fit to start?
Yes [the bit in bold] was something I wondered about. We were 4 then 3 then 2 up and Jamie, Rian and Soupy were all around our 45 and 21 working in defence lessening the ability to hit the fast ball in. I also agree with other comments about 3 left up front and maybe 3 in the middle of the field next day out, even if only to mix it up a bit. Stick to the plan [if we have one] but just keeping these areas stronger. Having just watched the game again I guess the ref wasn't too bad and again as others said, a few mad decisions both ways, but I'd say he did favour Cavan for large pats of the game. Here's the strange bit; he seemed to favour the team in the ascendency which meant he flip flopped. Major issue with him though is that he did fall time and again for Cavan faking an injury. Surely his officials should have been better at letting him know what was happening. They were good enough at off the ball stuff - correctly I'll add. He was most definitely whistle happy and frustratingly so to the point when anybody even got close to a player in possession it was almost inevitable that the next sound would be the "stop/start" shrill! I'd have loved to shove it up his...but that's for a different forum.

On the Donaghy card, it looked in slo mo as if he pulled out the yellow, realised as he was doing it that it was wrong and reached for the red, but that's only as I read it. Can't be certain. We could possibly appeal on a technicality, but I'd much prefer Brendan was made take his punishment. If it happened TOO us (and it has) I'd/we'd scream about it so let's be fair.

In summary, it actually was a good game with some excellent play from both teams. Rian O'Neill, Jarlath Og, by god they're something else and potentially can be among the best we've ever seen, but to keep them grounded (I know they all read this forum along with the whole management and backroom team - sure where else will they get the advice on beating the next opponents so we need to be cuter too?) they have a lot of learning to do. Rian is as strong as they get, but needs to learn to go down when inside the scoring range and getting pummelled. His free taking is getting so accurate. Not bad when it was excellent to begin with. Jarlath needs to see the 10 men bearing down on him and his team need to open a channel for him to lay off and pick up again. Jamar Hall is superb in this role and if not as talented, definitely as instinctive as Diarmuid Marsden.

On Jamar, why does it seem that no matter how often or how hard he gets tackled, HE seems to have the free awarded AGANST him? Is it just me seeing this? The lad takes some punishment. Surely the tackle as he got his point was very late and deserved a yellow when you look at some of the others. Those who criticised him last week should eat humble pie this week. Without his work yesterday we were in trouble.

Rory made a big improvement in this game, but still so far off what he can do. Not sure I'd call for him to be stood down as captain, but the lad needs the shackles off so he can get back to doing what he does well.

Blaine was good yesterday in my opinion. Yep he made a mistake or two, but point out a single player that didn't. No point in saying shite like "yeah but he's the last line and the one restarting with kick outs, so he's supposed to be perfect!" Doesn't wash. He's still one of 15 and human. We're all prone to making incorrect judgements. The Cavan keeper put the ball out over the sideline a few times. We allowed them short sickouts time after time and allowed them to build. None of that is the keepers fault, but we don't blame the players for that. We do blame the management. Sorry doesn't wash with me either. It may be part of a plan, but why retreat constantly when you know after the previous 4 or 5 kick outs, your man is getting a short ball? Bloody well go at him and at least make it tough on him. There's 14 others to carry out the game plan. At least try!! Some of the fielding was sublime, but jaysus some of it was U10 stuff. That was nothing to do with the keeper. He placed the ball. It was up to midfield to do their job.

I thought overall our tackling was good to great. When you watch back some of the things we were blown for, which at the time made us think we are just needlessly fouling and was frustrating, you see that the ref was just zealous. One in particular saw Jarly Og blown up for over carrying at the McGrane stand side when he was bottled up, when in fact he had dropped and released the ball. Cavan took it as a sideline ball, but that was the case, then it was completely wrong as it ended up over the line off the legs of two Cavan players. The linesman was right there so what could he not advise the ref?

What we tend to forget in all of this is that Cavan are/were a 1st division team. We can't say that it's irrelevant because we made so much of a big thing about not being able to put away a division 3 (Down) team

Anyway, replay on Sunday and it's rare that the underdog wins a replay!
 

Admin1

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Folks I've merged the replay thread with this one just for housekeeping as they're both connected. Just had several messages asking could it be changed. The conversations are related so it makes sense.
 
Adian O Rourke on The RTE Website

In any dynamic field sport, momentum and the flow of a game are lifeblood for teams as they pursue victory.

Particularly when opponents are evenly matched, the ability to control how a game is played at crucial times is fundamental to achieving a desired outcome. As a rule of thumb, pace, energy and space are your friend only when you are in possession. When you are not, killing those things subtly is a focus for habitual winners.

In the dying embers of the 2017 All Ireland Football final, with Dublin and Mayo deadlocked at 1-16 apiece, Diarmuid Connolly drew a scorable free about 40 yards from goal and left of centre. Dean Rock might have selected the patch of turf Connolly did if he had been given a free hand in any case. As the referee’s whistle signalled Dublin’s decisive opportunity there were 90 seconds of injury time to play.

By the time Rock subsequently strikes the ball, the entirety of injury time has somehow elapsed and Dublin’s clear objective - having squeezed in front - is to close down any playing time the referee thinks he may additionally add for the original injury time wasted.

Before the kick out can be struck, Rock has barged into the back of Chris Barrett and Ciaran Kilkenny has pinned Lee Keegan in a mount position. Joe McQuillan and his linesmen have plenty to sort out to get play resumed and ultimately Cormac Costello - who arrived to the fray as a timewasting substitute - absorbs a yellow card.

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Mayhem ensues everywhere, like a barfight spilling onto the street in a spaghetti western. Kilkenny is next for "punishment" as he ignores then half acknowledges the receipt of a black card. As Joe McQuillan tries to usher him off the pitch Kilkenny stands his ground, taking the opportunity to orchestrate teammates towards further resistance to the restart of the game.

With frustration at boiling point and well over another minute elapsed before Mayo can restart the game, David Clarke tries to force a sliced delivery to the wing and clears the sideline. The champions have to keep the possession that has been gifted back to them but ultimately the game is over.

From the moment Joe McQuillan’s whistle went for a scorable free, Dublin were in control of the destiny of the game because they knew through instinct, trial, error and experience exactly what had to happen to close the game out.

Days of lament followed, cursing rules and conventions that reward cynicism. In fact, what was mostly missed was that this was a masterclass in game management.

Game management

Not unlike leadership or composure under pressure, it is often said that 'game management' is a set of skills that takes a considerable amount of time and experience to master. That's not always the case. Preparation and on-field influencers who can identify opposition strengths and weaknesses can create a culture in any team that enables collective manipulation of a game’s patterns.

To control the flow of a game, an effective team have three areas to manage effectively:

  • 1) The officials
  • 2) Their opponents
  • 3) Their own skill set
The capacity to manipulate the first two and deploy the latter effectively will dictate the outcome of any game with evenly matched opponents.

In practice

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Over the weekend an emerging Armagh team met a resurgent Cavan with an Ulster final appearance - scarce recently for either side - at stake. Neither team hit the heights they would have hoped for in terms of performance. Semi-finals are rarely pretty and for both teams the result trumps aesthetics.

After 60 minutes of concentration, pressing and chasing scoring opportunities it looked like Armagh had done enough. Three points up, with Cavan reduced to 14 men and 10 minutes on the clock is a game management test to be passed.

Naturally, chasing the game, Cavan had abandoned their cover out of desperation. Most of the day, Armagh had protected their full-back line well and the Breffni men had stopped looking for ball inside. Every Cavan attack was now measured and through the hands to try to create shooting space inside the 45.

This scenario meant that the Cavan threat to be managed was clear and, with an extra man to deploy, that should have been achievable. More crucially, the opportunity Cavan’s desperation presented was the key to victory. If Armagh could get some share of quick ball forward into a 2 v 2 scenario, their attacking quality would do the rest.

Two key game-management elements were clear: Firstly, meet the Cavan build up play in the middle third before they get within shooting range and take momentum off them (tactically foul, Dublin-style). Secondly, rather than try to preserve the lead by maintaining possession, use the gaps Cavan were leaving by chasing against them and kick early ball into the forward line.

Essentially, go for the throat with possession because Cavan had to play without protection. Losing the ball in the forward line with the opportunity to add to the lead was eminently more preferable to getting turned over carrying the ball through the middle, where their opponents were pressing. One more point in this period would have won the game.



End game

Two patterns emerged over the remainder of play. Cavan worked runners into space to kick four more points in normal time and a later equaliser and on each occasion the score was kicked from 40 yards with an Armagh cover player sitting deep to no effect.

Additionally, Armagh failed to create a single kicked attack for the remainder of normal time. It would seem that panic reigned when you consider alongside that statistic that Andrew Murnin - arguably the most effective ball-winning target man in the country - was part of the equation for the closing period at full forward.

Armagh - like Dublin in the 2017 All Ireland final - occupied a winning position and had the tools to control the game’s momentum over a prolonged period of time. They should have closed it out.

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Armagh manager Kieran McGeeney (L) and Cavan boss Mickey Graham after their sides drew in Clones
Leading the way

Before any team can set about improving and mastering how they collectively attack, defend and manipulate the officials and opposition, they have to understand the importance of evolving with a game’s environment.

Rarely will the same approach remain effective over the full course of a contest and so they must adapt.How and why are the key questions and those are answered by leaders on the pitch.

It is no coincidence that Dublin have consistently eked out results from claustrophobic positions when it counts over the four-in-a-row run. It is in no small part due to the game smarts and leadership they possess in every area of the field.

Game intelligence is an area often overlooked in the evolution of any team but it is a fundamental 'winning' characteristic that can often be a glass ceiling to limit progress if it is lacking.

Many teams aspire to Dublin’s athleticism, playing style and standards but what really sets them apart form the pack is their game management. The list of teams that do so many things right but lack latter characteristic grows by the weekend.
Would love Management to be given some instruction on closing out games from Messers O’Rourke/McNulty. It is cerebral stuff and the coaches need coaching! They obviously don't have a calmness under pressure or awareness to guide the team in Respect of this very important part of the game. Happening too often of late that we aren’t winning from positions where we would be favourites to win. #CoachtheCoaches
 
I think nugent has been great, really impressive. As has been said above, I also really agree we need to leave ourselves more options inside on Sunday, between Clarke/o Neill/murnin/Campbell, Grugan definitely isn’t a full forward
 

ragingbull

Well-Known Member
It's cheaper to go to Armagh vs Cavan,Mongahan vs Fermanagh games than the Donegal vs Tyrone game this weekend
 

PatMustard

Well-Known Member
I wonder if Mongahan ones will be cheering on Cavan or Armagh on Sunday

Neither. Their heads will be so melted after Fermanagh.

They’ll run for the hills, living ferally, chewing on animal carcasses, until the next round of the qualifiers.
 

portadownarmaghfan

Well-Known Member
So you do agree that we had a 4 point lead? Our attempts at keep-ball moving from midfield back to the full back line near the end cost us 2 points. If you are going to lose a ball at least lose it in the opponent's half.
Are we not allowed to give any constructive criticism on here?


Very simple pal. You're allowed to give your critique and Tango is entitled to counter that. Are we not allowed to give any constructive criticism of your constructive criticism on here?
 
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