National Football League 2023

Big Jim

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
niall1980 said:
I’m not sure who said Mayo are great but to deny they’re a top 4 team is, in my humble opinion, incorrect. Only for a generational Dublin team they would probably have a couple of all Ireland’s
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It was a little tongue in cheek, but many do count them as great, even on here as they're constantly used to compare against. That's not hard to find.

But then again you've just done the same as the comments about Armagh [not necessarily by you by the way, but "what if?"
What if Dublin hadn't been so good?
What if Armagh had of beaten Galway last year in the quarter final
What if Armagh had of beaten Galway in the league a few weeks back
What if Armagh had of Beaten Mayo
What if Armagh had of beaten Kerry
What if Mayo had of scored an extra point against............

The main point I was making is that many measure a good team by winning the AI. Great teams win many. Those are not my words but those of others across multiple sources. To lose at any stage is just unacceptable. Carry that to a logical conclusion would mean never competing for the fear of losing and being labelled a failure, because to have a winner there has to be numerous winners.

I agree with your "humble opinion" and even if I didn't I still respect you giving it. However you cannot finish correcting me by saying "Only for a generational Dublin team they would probably have a couple of all Ireland’s". By your own comments previously, how could that possibly stand up? Only for Tyrone Armagh would probably have won a second in 2003, maybe a 3rd in 2005. Only for Joe's tactics against Fermanagh in 2004 we could have won a 4th

What if??
 
A

armaghtimmy

Well-Known Member
Big Jim said:
I started out with great intentions of reading through the posts but with 10 pages it was gonna be tough. One page in and I gave up.

Not gonna repeat one thing I read and obviously can't on the good stuff I've missed out on.

So, yeah it's a bit annoying that we got relegated, but that is where we are and name calling, denigrating (just did a dictionary check on that before @Ard Mhacha 13 castigated me) or generally putting others down is depressing and getting no one anywhere. Having an opinion is brilliant and everyone has that entitlement, but jumping on someone because they disagree is just daft. A difference of opinion is completely natural and because someone "thinks" differently, doesn't always mean they're wrong.

We 100% have the best supporters in the land!! Ask any Armagh supporter and they will tell you that. 30 odd counties that'd disagree mind you (yes there are a lot more than 32 - New York, London, et al!!)

This'll test whether you can accept a difference of opinion:

It seems that most would regard Mayo as a top 4 team. Why?? What have they done to deserve that position? How many Senior AI Football titles in the last 70 odd years?
They got relegated to div.2 on 2020 I think but still considered great!! Why? Because they're not us? They have been in the AI Final in 1989, 1996, 1997, 2004, 2006, 2012, 2013, 2016, 2017, 2020 and 2021 (I checked that)! How many wins?

Not so very long ago a great [former] forum member said that to reach a final was poor form if you don't go on and win it! 11 times since the late 80s and not one win, yet they're great.

I can't say that the argument that they are great is wrong, but I don't know where it comes from.

Stayed in division 1 longer consecutively than anyone else? Yep! Won more league titles than anyone else? Nope but they do have 6 consecutive in mid to late 1930s! I'm fairly sure none of those players are still on the panel.

Ah well. I guess getting beaten by Antrim in two weeks will be what we deserve too.

One thing though I'm 100% certain of; Management have not once this year sent out a team hoping or even thinking they'd lose. Those calling for Geezer to leave qualify the call by stating that he was an extremely brave and diligent servant to the county. He would have died for his team because of his love for the county! So now that he is team manager, that love has gone? He doesn't care and he just picks a team to massage his ego? Oh I know! It's so he can justify his BIG wage bill!! Yeah I know he gets it funded by sorting out sponsorship to cover it, but don't let that put a stop to the fun of mistruths.

Personally I want him to stay on. I'll go further. Even if Antrim were to beat us Saturday week and we get thumped in the qualifiers first time out, he'll still be there next season. He is a stabilising figure within Armagh and has helped bring the finances into order since he arrived. There's a lot of work still to be done and I don't see us winning anything substantive in the next 10 years. That bit I will gladly take back in spades when you gloat at how wrong I am, but first I have to be wrong. Sorry but that's just my honest, no messing this time opinion and I'm really looking forward to Antrim. Ticket sorted earlier so now just waiting!!!!
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Fair play Jim, thats certainly a different take on things.

Have to disagree however, I am a Geezer fan, but I think you would quite possibly be the only person in the county who thinks he should be there next year if we lose to Antrim (including Geezer himself).. Forums eh, some craic :)

Honestly think this is the last roll of the dice, and really hope he gets some reward for years of toil (an Ulster title)...... which brings me to the future and his replacement, have we ever previously went for, or is there any history there that would stop of going for Malachy O'Rourke? It would be a near perfect solution, he gets one more craic at things with Glen and Geezer can finish out the season (and then could move into Academy development perhaps as this is more of a strength than perhaps reactive matchday tactics for example)... Just a thought for a wet Tuesday morning.
 
N

niall1980

Well-Known Member
Big Jim said:
It was a little tongue in cheek, but many do count them as great, even on here as they're constantly used to compare against. That's not hard to find.

But then again you've just done the same as the comments about Armagh [not necessarily by you by the way, but "what if?"
What if Dublin hadn't been so good?
What if Armagh had of beaten Galway last year in the quarter final
What if Armagh had of beaten Galway in the league a few weeks back
What if Armagh had of Beaten Mayo
What if Armagh had of beaten Kerry
What if Mayo had of scored an extra point against............

The main point I was making is that many measure a good team by winning the AI. Great teams win many. Those are not my words but those of others across multiple sources. To lose at any stage is just unacceptable. Carry that to a logical conclusion would mean never competing for the fear of losing and being labelled a failure, because to have a winner there has to be numerous winners.

I agree with your "humble opinion" and even if I didn't I still respect you giving it. However you cannot finish correcting me by saying "Only for a generational Dublin team they would probably have a couple of all Ireland’s". By your own comments previously, how could that possibly stand up? Only for Tyrone Armagh would probably have won a second in 2003, maybe a 3rd in 2005. Only for Joe's tactics against Fermanagh in 2004 we could have won a 4th

What if??
Click to expand...
I dont disagree, I dont generally like what ifs but I think it is fairly clear that Mayo would have a couple of AIs but for that Dublin team. Its not a what if. Also, we would have won the AI in 05 if McGrane had have been able to pick the ball of the ground. Thats not a what if, thats a definite. And no, I havent gotten over that
 
W

Wide ball

Well-Known Member
niall1980 said:
I dont disagree, I dont generally like what ifs but I think it is fairly clear that Mayo would have a couple of AIs but for that Dublin team. Its not a what if. Also, we would have won the AI in 05 if McGrane had have been able to pick the ball of the ground. Thats not a what if, thats a definite. And no, I havent gotten over that
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Dublin are widely regarded as the best team ever and they hammered everyone bar that mayo team so that mayo team would definitely have 2 at least.
 
pablo

pablo

Well-Known Member
niall1980 said:
I dont disagree, I dont generally like what ifs but I think it is fairly clear that Mayo would have a couple of AIs but for that Dublin team. Its not a what if. Also, we would have won the AI in 05 if McGrane had have been able to pick the ball of the ground. Thats not a what if, thats a definite. And no, I havent gotten over that
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FFS. I know that exact moment you are referring to. You've reopened a true 'what if' memory thats taken me years to get over
 
Armagh_paul

Armagh_paul

Well-Known Member
I was reminiscing over the 'what if' moments over the last few years and by fu** there are so many of them.

What if Sligo never got that penalty

What if we were given that point against Mayo

What if McCabe was not sent off last year
 
pablo

pablo

Well-Known Member
2000 Semi Final replay: what if Brian White had done the correct thing and given the Kerry defender his second yellow card after mowing down Marsden
 
pablo

pablo

Well-Known Member
Brian White- same boyo never sent off Kevin Hughes for clothes line tackle of Paddy McKeever.
Smiley wee bollox was happy to flash cards of all sorts to anything wearing an Orange Jersey.

Jaysus what a can of worms have we opened up on this thread!
 
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niall1980

Well-Known Member
pablo said:
Brian White- same boyo never sent off Kevin Hughes for clothes line tackle of Paddy McKeever.
Smiley wee bollox was happy to flash cards of all sorts to anything wearing an Orange Jersey.

Jaysus what a can of worms have we opened up on this thread!
Click to expand...
Might need a thread of it's own
 
pablo

pablo

Well-Known Member
niall1980 said:
Or if Barry O'Hagan had kicked the ball dead
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One of the ultimates and a hard one to watch again
Although in fairness to Bumpy, he more than redeemed for that moment by his immense 2nd half contribution in 2002 final. He, Flappy McGrane and Tony McEntee turned the tide at midfield.
 
JoeH

JoeH

Well-Known Member
Overall I think it was a strong league campaign with the second halves of Roscommon and Galway being the main reasons for relegation.

All teams are playing a certain way and given that during the league no two team selections were the same and arguably missing 3-5 first team starters in every game I thought the squad did well.

Andy Murnin has been our best player so far with forker, Ciaran Mackin, Jarly og, Ethan and Aaron McKay and Barry McCambridge not far behind.

TK missed six months of game time and is getting back into it.

Forwards are moving well and great to see Niall Grimley in such great form last Sunday after the serious injury he suffered last year

When Rian, Paddy Burns (who played well when available), James Morgan, Conor ONeill, Ben crealey Ross McQuillan become available again and the likes of Shane mcPartlan, Cian McConville, Justin Kieran push on we have a squad as good as what's out there.

Not sure about Mark Shields, Ciaron Ohanlon, Niall Rowland, Ciaran Higgins(hugely underrated player) - they'll certainly push everyone

Dublin got relegated last year, Mayo the year before.
It's always great to dine at the top table - but if we can push through Ulster and the AI series can be a minefield where the squad will be very important - we will have a great season.


Bounce back next year to division one and keep bringing U20s and others into the squad
 
JoeH

JoeH

Well-Known Member
In games where fine margins mean a lot:
Andy Murnin fielded a kickout - he seemed to injure himself, ball went loose. Normally ref gives the mark. No mark given Tyrone score a point. Andy going off was a huge loss to Armagh.
Ciaran Mackin puts his body in for a loose ball and takes a knock. Ref hops the ball instead of Armagh free
Tyrone players constantly threw the head back and put an arm up when being tackled -:ref more often than not gives advantage or a free.

Jarly og being fouled -:ref goes to blow whistle, doesn't, seconds later it's a free out to Tyrone.

The list against the ref is long and given that was, I'm told, his first game of the league maybe he needed another game to get backup to speed.
 
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