Not on tv or streamed,looks like I will have to go to the game nowIs Meath game being shown on TV anywhere? Working again so won’t get
I thought that last year! Anyway lets hope for big improvements this week and 2 more points on the board. Need to up our game massively for Donegal the way they did at the weekend!Yip that post from winsamsoon has pretty much summed us up and it can be very frustrating to watch.
as an eternal optimist I am hoping mcgeeney is simply playing his cards close to his chest and later in the season the shackles will be thrown off... time will tell
we could do with that 2022 rian back2 years ago at the weekend we went to Croke Park and played Dublin off the pitch. (Yes not a full strength Dublin but they were a kick of a ball from an all Ireland final that year and winners a year later.) This weekend we struggled at home to relegation favourites Louth.
That’s not a criticism or dig at any player or coach but fairly frustrating to think about. The talent is there.
And a few others as well! Ciaran Mackin was class that day if I remember rightly.we could do with that 2022 rian back
I get what you mean when you say most teams play the same way and use the same tactic but teams have found ways to do that defence and also attack well, like Monaghan they played McCarthy a forward in the half back line, also Louth played Lennon a forward who was very good in the half back line, but look at us we played defenders in the half forward line, we are taking it to a different direction, instead of saying let's get a few more points we are thinking lets lower the oppositions points, mayo leave 3 up front now this isn't the norm for teams and most of the top teams leave 2 but we only ever leave 1 up, I seen posters on here say mcquillan at half back would be a good idea. I agree with them but it won't happen, management are playing defensive players in attack so they hardly will play an attacking player on defence, and it's not just the Louth game, we played Morgan in half forward in the Ulster final and McElroy in the half forward line for the quarter final, I wish Armagh where more pro active in their approach to attacking play, instead of having Monaghan or teams of that level worry about our threats we where worried about their attacking half backs and stick defenders on them, it really bugs me. Also when we went 2 points up on Louth and where winning all kick outs we dropped of and conceded straight away, is this the mindset of players, dropping off when leading like we did against Derry and Monaghan or is it direction from management? I just wish we would be more positive in our approach, doesn't need to be revolutionaryInteresting discussion in the last few days. Some of the negativity is certainly warranted, and I'd admit I was fairly down on things myself walking out of the game. However, I do think that some of the most critical posters have not given enough consideration to the fact that this was the first league game, on a cold and windy January evening, against a sticky and much improved opponent, who always seems to raise their game against Armagh. We all wanted to start off the year with a bang, but the two points were the most important thing. And those two points were secured, just about.
I enjoy reading the contributions on tactical approaches, however I find myself at odds with most of what has been posted here. I can't reconcile what I see in front of me at games (those involving Armagh, and those not) with the the notion that Armagh's failures are due to not being attacking enough. To my eyes, every team of consequence, including Armagh, has taken the same relatively straightforward approach to playing Gaelic football:
1. Defensive system. Fundamentally, it's just bodies back blocking off space. Some variation seems to exist when teams get back as to whether they then mark man-to-man, or zonally, or, as is most common, a combination of both. But it's still bodies clogging up space within 50 yards of the defensive goal. Central areas are most heavily guarded, with the intention of funnelling attackers down narrow passages near the sideline, or forcing low percentages shots from distance. Defensive discipline and intelligence is important, recognising when and how to commit in numbers when the turnover is on - very similar to rugby union in this regard.
2. Kick-out system. Involves pretty much every player on the pitch. On your own kick-outs it requires good communication with your keeper and being sharp enough to quickly take advantage of space. Still a role for big ball winners in the middle when keepers are forced to go long by an opposition press. There is variation on defending a kick-out, and this seems to depend on the opposition and in-game circumstances - a dynamic risk/ reward calculation. Press more on opponents with weak ball winners, drop off more on opponents with strong ball winners. Press more when with momentum and in need of scores, drop off more when losing momentum and defending a lead.
3. Attacking system. All teams look to go hard and fast after securing a turnover or after beating the kick-out press - these are your only opportunities to attack an unstructured defence (other than winning a throw-in and launching it forward, as per Armagh V Donegal in Clones in 2022). Accurate kick passing, sticky handling, and good situational awareness are key. Don't beat the defensive set and you're in recycle city, because every opposition is driving to get 14/15 players back behind their own 45 as quickly as possible when out of possession. Patience is key when facing a well structured defence - recycle, overlap, probe, and shift the angle of attack until space is created. Don't fall into defensive traps and concede turnovers. Elusive strike runners with pace are useful, as they can penetrate defensive screens and force the defenders into making mistakes like fouling or vacating space. Long range shooters, usually operating on the loop around the 45 line, are also critical as they can bypass defensive structures. The threat of these shooters can also pull defensive systems further out the field, creating space closer to goal. Marks are another factor when going forward. Teams don't usually bother with low percentage punts into a crowded square, so most marks seem to be the result of clever dinked passes into pockets of space 20-30 yards from goal. As with counter attacking, the key here is accurate kick passing, sticky handling, and good situational awareness.
That's my treatise on the state of football in 2024. I don't claim to understand every facet of the game, and I'm open to suggestion that more nuance exists. But I feel the above is broadly accurate, and that Armagh's system isn't really Armagh's system - it's just the system that everyone works with.
So my long winded contention is that Armagh's problems aren't really down to the approach, or tactics, or style of football being played - rather it's the execution of this approach that's the issue. I'd also contend that there are no teams out there really playing a more attacking or aggressive brand of football - instead, some teams seem that way because they have upped the accuracy and discipline of their systems and/ or are faced with opponents that have dropped the accuracy and discipline or their own systems. So when a very early peaking Donegal hammered Cork at the weekend, I look to the fact that a seemingly well organised Donegal defence conceded just one point from a free all game, whereas a less well organised and indisciplined Cork defence conceded seven.
What does this mean for Armagh going forward? I don't believe there is any other way to play the game, so the tactical approach doesn't appreciably change. Defence and kick-outs were sound enough on Saturday. You'd expect attacking accuracy to improve with match fitness as the season progresses, so some of the turnovers we forced against Louth might actually translate into goals. You'd also expect personnel to change to include those who offer more in the current tactical environment - in particular, more elusive strike runners (Kelly, McQuillan), more adept foot passers (Nugent, Cumiskey, Duffy), and more long range shooters (O'Neill*2, JOB, Rafferty). I don't think many of the middle 8 on Saturday offered enough in the way of line breaking or long range shooting. But there's a limit to what can improve, as the management have to work with the players that are there. I have believed for a good while that Armagh are not blessed with the attacking talent that most followers seem to believe, but that's probably a discussion for another day.
Feel free to rip the above apart. I would enjoy someone telling me why I'm wrong.
Who are Louth relegation favourites with? And why?2 years ago at the weekend we went to Croke Park and played Dublin off the pitch. (Yes not a full strength Dublin but they were a kick of a ball from an all Ireland final that year and winners a year later.) This weekend we struggled at home to relegation favourites Louth.
That’s not a criticism or dig at any player or coach but fairly frustrating to think about. The talent is there.
Fermanagh not enough scoring power & style/system of playWho are Louth relegation favourites with? And why?
Well they were being talked about by plenty as likely to go down with Fermanagh. Either way a team we should be a level or 2 above.Who are Louth relegation favourites with? And why?
Fully agree with the earlier post, our forwards get away with murder in my opinion. They somehow get praised by fans and media as having a lot of quality and get the blame shifted to the system, while at the same time completely undercutting our game plan by routinely making errors that other top forwards and teams simply don't make.I think we’re well past it being useful to think of players as forwards or defenders. Everyone is a defender when out of possession, and everyone is an attacker when in possession (including the goalies).
Positional lines don’t really mean anything either. The middle 8, in particular, is completely interchangeable. Players are now picked based on certain physical and mental attributes. Attributes that can’t really be condensed down to labels like defender or attacker.
On the dropping off kick-outs thing - that’s the percentages call. It worked on Saturday, just about. Continuing to press in that situation doesn’t come without significant risk. I remember Armagh taking a two point lead into injury time in a Division 3 game against Tipperary 5/6 years ago, and losing to a sucker punch goal because they didn’t drop off on the final kick-out. So you can get burnt both ways.
i dont get it. They finished 3rd last season and reached the leinster final. I guess their game against Cork will tell a taleWell they were being talked about by plenty as likely to go down with Fermanagh. Either way a team we should be a level or 2 above.
I agree with this. On another note, I cant ever remember seeing a 45 kicked backwards before; then saturday happenedWe need to be playing with a full back line and a CHB all our best defenders and at least one good man marker in those four.The rest of the team should all be forward thinking players because we play a mass defence system anyway and any inter county player should be able to defend in this system. That way when we break forward we have a better percentage chance of getting a shooter on the ball.
Last Saturday night we had the opposite only 3 forwards. Too many times we broke forward and turned back to our keeper because our forward options where all tied up
Sam mulroy is one of the best free takers in Ireland and he really struggled against the wind so because we weren’t carrying a free taker and Blaine tried one earlier and hadn’t the distance we probably had no choiceI agree with this. On another note, I cant ever remember seeing a 45 kicked backwards before; then saturday happened
You'd have McQuillan,Duffy or Kelly playing in half back line & you call McGeeney cluelessI'd like to see Jary in midfield and a more attack minded half back line with pace and line breakers. Conor O'Neill fits this role as does Forker but maybe someone like McQuillan, TK, Duffy or Ciaran Mackin would work too.
Maybe the so called experts overestimated how much harm losing Harte would do.i dont get it. They finished 3rd last season and reached the leinster final. I guess their game against Louth will tell a tale
I find some merit in that also, however the better teams seem to be able to flick the switch and create a different play when needed. I can't rem the last time I came away from an Armagh game and everyone talking about a wow moment. We have serious talent in that panel who are capable of those wow moments but we just aren't seeing it.My suggestion is that the style is fundamentally the same, but that the best teams are marked by their superior execution.
More accuracy on the break, more incisive line breakers, better long range shooters = more scores = the appearance of a more attacking approach.
Marry this with effective implementation of the standard defensive structures and you’re onto a winner.