ragingbull
Well-Known Member
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0913/1246546-gpa-set-to-support-new-football-season-format/ what's your thoughts on the new format ?
New Football Season Format
- Thread starter ragingbull
- Start date
Armaghball
Well-Known Member
League championship isn’t championship.
Another thing for me is that the winners of Ulster deserve to be further on in the All Ireland than the winners of any other province.
2 options for me would be run the provincials off separately from the all ireland and then do a 32 county straight knockout open draw- could see a middling team get a decent run and get to a semi final with a bit of luck. Could also see a big hitter getting put out early. 16 First round losers into the B All Ireland or whatever it’s going to be called, again straight knockout, play as many double headers as possible and play the final before the senior one.
Other option would be keep the qualifier system but structure it that the winners of Leinster, Connacht and Munster have to face 3 teams that came through the qualifiers.
PatMustard
Well-Known Member
If you don’t link the provincials to the All Ireland series, then the Ulster championship becomes the McKenna Cup, ie. a meaningless pre-season competition.
Armaghball
Well-Known Member
Do you think so? Play it in the middle of the summer and you’ll still get the same interest i reckon. Something needs done either way about the imbalance of what Ulster counties potentially have to do to make an all ireland quarter/ semi final compared to other provinces.
PatMustard
Well-Known Member
Isn’t summer where this new format will take place? If they couldn’t fit in the Ulster Hurling championship, and the few teams it involved, it’s unlikely they’ll find a suitable spot in the calendar for the football.
Counties will field weakened teams, as they will want to peak for the “real” championship (whichever format that will be), not the Mickey Mouse competition the Ulster championship will become. Or else they won’t field at all. It will eventually turn into an “inconvenience” to managers and fans, losing all value and interest.
Something does need done though. Maybe an automatic AI semi spot for Ulster winners, and a QF place for the other provincial winners.
Armagh_paul
Well-Known Member
Hi all
Haven't been on for a while - what is happening with proposal A and B?
I have read this part for plan B and thought - oh here comes the GAA to F**k things up even more - The format would see the top five teams in the Division 1, top three in Division 2 and winners of Divisions 3 and 4 advance to the All-Ireland series. for plan B.
Firstly this does not fix the mismatch problem D1 teams are going to beat D4 teams. Then of course you are going to have teams purposefully being relegated to stay get into the AI the following year. Mayo for instance, if they are sitting in 7th in the league they will not be appearing in the AI that year. They might as well play for relegation and finish in the top 3 of D2 the following year and pretty much guarantee themselves an AI appearance. In fact most D1 teams could quite happily maintain a D2 third spot position for years.
The only way to please people who want to keep the league, the provincials and the AI is to combine them
Haven't been on for a while - what is happening with proposal A and B?
I have read this part for plan B and thought - oh here comes the GAA to F**k things up even more - The format would see the top five teams in the Division 1, top three in Division 2 and winners of Divisions 3 and 4 advance to the All-Ireland series. for plan B.
Firstly this does not fix the mismatch problem D1 teams are going to beat D4 teams. Then of course you are going to have teams purposefully being relegated to stay get into the AI the following year. Mayo for instance, if they are sitting in 7th in the league they will not be appearing in the AI that year. They might as well play for relegation and finish in the top 3 of D2 the following year and pretty much guarantee themselves an AI appearance. In fact most D1 teams could quite happily maintain a D2 third spot position for years.
The only way to please people who want to keep the league, the provincials and the AI is to combine them
Big Jim
Well-Known Member
So I've mulled this over for a few days and think I have it right. A countrywide sporting organisation, that 100 years ago became partitioned is looking to partition off it's major competition in the year that sees the 100th anniversary of the travesty.
Yeah a bit foolish I know, but the point being that Ulster (ALL 9 counties) has the most competitive football competition on the island. I can't see us giving that up easily. Maybe it is true then that the 26 are fed up with the nordies taking the big prize into the UK.
For the record, I'd be very much in favour of a revamped AI Football championship, but somehow winning your provincial title has to have prestige attached to it. I've no solution though as to how it would work without leaving those 4 provincial winners for 5-6 weeks without a game while the others play off to qualify for later stages.
Yeah a bit foolish I know, but the point being that Ulster (ALL 9 counties) has the most competitive football competition on the island. I can't see us giving that up easily. Maybe it is true then that the 26 are fed up with the nordies taking the big prize into the UK.
For the record, I'd be very much in favour of a revamped AI Football championship, but somehow winning your provincial title has to have prestige attached to it. I've no solution though as to how it would work without leaving those 4 provincial winners for 5-6 weeks without a game while the others play off to qualify for later stages.
Armagh_paul
Well-Known Member
I would have a league structure that consists of either two or four leagues which have rotations every 2-3 years so league structures do not go stale with teams playing the same teams all the time.
Placement in the league determines who plays in the provincial championship where only the winners are rewarded with a last 8 placement. If a county occupies a top four position and are provincial winners it goes to either the next best placed team in the division or the team with best points difference across all the divisions (hopefully this would encourage attacking play). In the league the top four teams in each division go through to the AI where we can have a 1st place meets 4th place etc or have an open draw. Winners of the play-off play the provincial finalists and the AI is decided from there.
With this structure
- There is no imbalance in the provincial structure, you earn your place to the AI. Depending on how teams are allocated to the league some seasons you could get an 'easier' league campaign.
- Roughly equal number of games
- Provincial winners are not disadvantaged
- There can be some curveballs thrown into the championship with best placed teams after provincial winners
- You don't attack and get the points on the board you won't get through to the AI finals
- I would introduce a 2nd and 3rd tier alternative championship to the AI - have the games at Croke Park.
That is how I would make all three competitions relevant whilst keeping each championship important in it's own right.
Placement in the league determines who plays in the provincial championship where only the winners are rewarded with a last 8 placement. If a county occupies a top four position and are provincial winners it goes to either the next best placed team in the division or the team with best points difference across all the divisions (hopefully this would encourage attacking play). In the league the top four teams in each division go through to the AI where we can have a 1st place meets 4th place etc or have an open draw. Winners of the play-off play the provincial finalists and the AI is decided from there.
With this structure
- There is no imbalance in the provincial structure, you earn your place to the AI. Depending on how teams are allocated to the league some seasons you could get an 'easier' league campaign.
- Roughly equal number of games
- Provincial winners are not disadvantaged
- There can be some curveballs thrown into the championship with best placed teams after provincial winners
- You don't attack and get the points on the board you won't get through to the AI finals
- I would introduce a 2nd and 3rd tier alternative championship to the AI - have the games at Croke Park.
That is how I would make all three competitions relevant whilst keeping each championship important in it's own right.
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Ard Mhacha 13
Well-Known Member
Surely if the Provinicial Championships are as important/special as many people think they could survive as a stand alone competition?
Have listened to a lot of pundits on this who are all very strongly backing option B.
personally I don’t like it.
the selling point that every team gets 7 championship games isn’t true
You get 7 league games and then if you are good enough you get to play championship or the taltern cup
I’m also worried about how this works with clubs when county are playing provincial then a league championship and then a championship. Some are saying the league portion will be in the summer
will club players ever get to play when it’s not pitch black and cold?
I havent looked at the details enough but wouldn’t be any more interested in going to a league championship game than I would have going to a league game
personally I don’t like it.
the selling point that every team gets 7 championship games isn’t true
You get 7 league games and then if you are good enough you get to play championship or the taltern cup
I’m also worried about how this works with clubs when county are playing provincial then a league championship and then a championship. Some are saying the league portion will be in the summer
will club players ever get to play when it’s not pitch black and cold?
I havent looked at the details enough but wouldn’t be any more interested in going to a league championship game than I would have going to a league game
PatMustard
Well-Known Member
They are special. Well, Ulster is anyway. Connacht too, maybe. Leinster used to be until they pumped millions into Dublin.
But an Ulster championship becomes effectively meaningless if it’s not linked to the AI series. It will go the same way as the Ulster Hurling championship. Shoehorned into the calendar a day before Christmas, or the following year. With 25 in attendance.
The Ulster championship was already devalued because of the qualifiers. Teams still wanted to win it, but it wasn’t the end of the world if they didn’t because they still could compete for Sam. This new format will absolutely kill the provincials. Well, Munster and Leinster were dead anyway, but Ulster , and to a lesser extent Connacht, was very much alive. Why should we suffer because the competition is lacking down the country?
Why would teams field a full team in a meaningless Ulster championship match? It will become like the McKenna Cup. Yes, Tyrone always liked to win it, but few others did. Donegal were on holiday once during the McKenna cup and Bonner failed to put out a team a couple of seasons ago. Teams will have bigger fish to fry.
Dublin don’t take the O’Byrne cup seriously. Sure Longford won it a year or two ago. Longford! Dublin (or Kerry) don’t even really take the NFL seriously either. It’s all about Sam.
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Armagh_paul
Well-Known Member
I'm getting a bit fed up with the GAA, they can't be trusted to fix anything. They created the super 8s which in my eyes was horrible idea. Now the are restructuring the entire season and after 3 years it will have to be restructured again because the boys at HQ create more problems than they fix
gael_force_orchard
Well-Known Member
Proposal B is the biggest pile of crap I have heard in long and manys a day. Absolute garbage. It actually disincentivises counties. If that gets voted through it will finish football.
JoeH
Well-Known Member
Funny it's being backed by the cash rich GPA and others.
I agree with your sentiments and there are other items they may want to consider such as why are the Leinster and Munster championships so one sided. Why are the other teams not stepping up?
Personally I like the backdoor option especially for Ulster teams where there are 4/5//6 teams capable of winning and/or doing well.
The split season has caused a problem and they won't admit it
Armagh_paul
Well-Known Member
Everyone appreciated the GAA needs to make money but the proposed changes are definitely not a solution if anything they are crap. Reading 'experts' saying they would love to see this idea put forward is bloody insane! I don't get how a team who finishes in 6th in D1 is not rewarded with a place in the AI whilst a team that finishes 3rd in D2 is given a place in the AI. Put simply you are rewarded for missing out on promotion in D2 but you receive no reward for staying in D1.
It is silly giving winners of D3 and D4 places in the AI...I think I would rather have all of D1 and D2 play in the AI. Anyone who is relegated from D2 are out of the AI that year and are replaced by teams promoted from D3. Proposal B is open to abuse they cite 'fairness' as being one of the main reasons for it when it evidently is not.
I don't particularly have much love for the provincial championship because you tend to get the same games almost every year and that tends to be slightly boring if I am honest. Yes, it is an important competition and is part of the AI but sometimes things need changing up a little. Would be good to have provincials as an off season tournament as the games can be spaced out. Not sure how it can be worked in to the AI if that was the case though.
It is silly giving winners of D3 and D4 places in the AI...I think I would rather have all of D1 and D2 play in the AI. Anyone who is relegated from D2 are out of the AI that year and are replaced by teams promoted from D3. Proposal B is open to abuse they cite 'fairness' as being one of the main reasons for it when it evidently is not.
I don't particularly have much love for the provincial championship because you tend to get the same games almost every year and that tends to be slightly boring if I am honest. Yes, it is an important competition and is part of the AI but sometimes things need changing up a little. Would be good to have provincials as an off season tournament as the games can be spaced out. Not sure how it can be worked in to the AI if that was the case though.
gael_force_orchard
Well-Known Member
No but if hell bent on a league championship format then it needs to be fair and simple. So here goes, Division 1 through 4 as normal. Play the leagues off. Then at the end of the leagues div 1 and 2 are All Ireland, division 3 and 4 are Taillaint cup (spelling*). 16 teams in each. Top 4 teams in Division 1 are drawn as top seeds in Groups A, B, C, D in all ireland. Bottom 4 teams in division 1 are drawn as 2nd seed in Groups A,B,C,D. Top 4 teams in Division 2 are drawn as 3rd seed in Groups A,B,C,D and bottom 4 teams in Division 2 are last seed in Groups A,B,C,D in All Ireland in the same year. Counties will know their seeds as per league finish, but the draw will allocate them to a group at random, so four number 1 seeds, four number 2 seeds, four number 3 seeds and four numner 4 seeds. Randomly drawn to give group A with teams 1,2,3,4 group B 1,2,3,4 and so on.
We then have 4 groups of 4 teams seeded as per league position in an All Ireland Round Robin. Top 2 in each group go to QF where a Winner of each Group is drawn against a runner up off another. 4 winners of the QF into open draw for semi final.
Repeat the process for Division Divisions 3 & 4 for the Taillaint Cup.
Couple of provisos, the winners and Runners up in Division 3 play in the second tier that year. They get promoted to Division 2 and play All Ireland the following year. The bottom 2 in division 2 still play all Ireland in the same year they get relegated. They play second tier comp the following year when they play all their league games against lower quality opposition. This should leave a more level playing field.
In this format you can get promotion from division 3 and relegation from division 2 so there is incentive. If one of bottom 2 teams in division 2 wins the all Ireland then the 3rd last team in division 2 gets relegated (very unlikely to happen. If a team below top 2 in division 3 or a team from division 4 wins second tier cup then they go to division 2 the following year at the expense of 2nd placed division 3 team.
Logical and fair and likely no anomalies and plenty of tight decent games. Every team gets a league campaign of 7 games, 3 round robin championship games at a minimum. And every team needs to play 6 games to get to an all ireland final or B final and win it.
Provincial championships become McKenna Cup unfortunately but might make early season games competitive. Fewer dead rubbers all season.
Make no mistake, GAA want the league as all ireland. So it has to be on a fair and normal basis.
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PatMustard
Well-Known Member
Play NFL as normal.
Final standings determine provincial draw.
eg. 2 lowest placed Ulster teams, say Antrim/Cavan, play in Ulster preliminary round.
4 highest placed Ulster teams get a QF draw at home (other provinces similar).
*****************************
Play provincials.
Winners into AI QF (with a home draw).
Losing finalists in last 16 (with home draw).
24 teams left.
Open draw All-Ireland.
- Round of 24
- Round of 16 (12 winners + 4 losing finalists)
- Round of 8
- Quarter finals
*****************************
The NFL, provincials and AI series are all valued and meaningful. Performance in one determines the next, while still chance for one-off shocks in knockout open draw.
Final standings determine provincial draw.
eg. 2 lowest placed Ulster teams, say Antrim/Cavan, play in Ulster preliminary round.
4 highest placed Ulster teams get a QF draw at home (other provinces similar).
*****************************
Play provincials.
Winners into AI QF (with a home draw).
Losing finalists in last 16 (with home draw).
24 teams left.
Open draw All-Ireland.
- Round of 24
- Round of 16 (12 winners + 4 losing finalists)
- Round of 8
- Quarter finals
*****************************
The NFL, provincials and AI series are all valued and meaningful. Performance in one determines the next, while still chance for one-off shocks in knockout open draw.