Muckser
Well-Known Member
BBC Radio Ulster - The GAA Social, Armagh defender Paddy Burns joins Michael Murphy & Thomas Niblock
Armagh relentless, Down do just about enough. Offaly surprise? Donegal V Derry begins
Ulster Championship 2024
- Thread starter ragingbull
- Start date
Haven’t listened to it but is he saying the players just decide themselves to do it? Did the players take turbo off and replace him with McIlroy before the Monaghan game then??
I used Down as an example only as they’re our next opponent and because it was 14 scores to 12 just last year when they didn’t have murdoch, yet people think we’re going to stroll past them this year.
We definitely relied on that cavan goal when they were turning the pressure on towards the end, and needed rian to make a diving goal line save. That Galway game proves my point, it was our best win last year and best since the Tyrone/ Donegal games in 22, when we also kicked over 15 points. Something will need to change if we’re to get near that level this year.
Is this really where we are now? Delegitimising wins because we scored 1 goal and had to make a save to prevent a goal?? It's a 70 minute match with 2 teams trying to do these things. Without our goal we still beat Cavan on points.
The Galway match doesn't prove your point which was "We keep relying on goals to put bad teams away because we can’t score enough points".
Galway are a good team - I threw that result in to show that even against good teams we don't "keep relying on goals", never mind bad teams.
We scored 3 goals against Donegal in 2022 - a good win by your account - does this mean it's no longer legitimate?? Because you know, without those 3 goals there would only have been a point in it!! Or is it simply the case that because we put up more than 15 points that day all would have been rosey without goals?
What you are right about is that some people think we will stroll past Down. And you know what, it doesn't matter one jot because it only matters how the management and players approach it. A few people on a forum being confident/cocky really has no impact on the reality of the match itself.
For the record, I work with a few Down people and they think we will stroll past them too. No matter about our problems, Down people are seeing their team come off the back of a poor Division 3 League final performance and poor outing against Antrim, and they see Armagh as a Division 1 team who brushed Fermanagh aside.
It's hard to see how we aren't heavy favourites for this one.
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Peter grimes
Well-Known Member
I have some sympathy with the view that when a team racks up decent tallies of points from play they are purring. But there can be no hard and fast rule. You want teams to go for the kill when goal chances are there. You can’t complain when they take their goal chances. Once those goals go in they impact what happens next.
Similarly, You don’t want to rely on frees but hardly your failing the other team foul.
I don’t think we were purring on Sunday. Far from it. No big takeaways. The deficiencies of Fermanagh mean we still don’t know where we are at. My hunch is that we are fitter on match day than during the league (toning down the heavy fitness work) and that aided physical dominance but we need to sharpen up a bit to avail of the fewer chances that a better team will present.
Similarly, You don’t want to rely on frees but hardly your failing the other team foul.
I don’t think we were purring on Sunday. Far from it. No big takeaways. The deficiencies of Fermanagh mean we still don’t know where we are at. My hunch is that we are fitter on match day than during the league (toning down the heavy fitness work) and that aided physical dominance but we need to sharpen up a bit to avail of the fewer chances that a better team will present.
armaghtimmy
Well-Known Member
Agreed 100%- much easier to peak for now and here on than last year and playing in div one. Fermanagh and Down would have been a calculated risk to play a part in that gradual build up also, albeit a small risk. We will have been primed to peak for Ulster final/group stages. Sunday was all a bit low key and job done, we move on. Slightly disappointed with the sub impact but understand its hard, and after the first half it would take a seismic impact to get a starting jersey next day out. Onto the next one
Exactly right Peter grimes and armaghtimmy.
I have some sympathy with the view as well that a team who constantly scores a high volume of points is likely to be better placed than one who scores low points and relies on goals to keep them in it.
I just don't think the recent evidence backs up the notion that it applies to Armagh.
I have some sympathy with the view as well that a team who constantly scores a high volume of points is likely to be better placed than one who scores low points and relies on goals to keep them in it.
I just don't think the recent evidence backs up the notion that it applies to Armagh.
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jpowell100
Active Member
If I remember correctly one of the complaints from the league in 2023 was that we didn’t score enough goals compared to the previous season….
You have remembered correctly
people always find something to give off about
winsamsoon
Well-Known Member
Yes they do, we would never be guilty of such a thing
Sundays game panned out how I expected it, game over after 20 minutes and I was happy with that. As a manager you want the team to go to the end but that rarely happens for several different reasons. There should be more of an edge and bite to the Down game afterall they are our true rivals in Ulster and I believe this will spur on both teams. On paper Armagh look superior and we should be expecting something similiar to last year. Down being in the game for 40-50 mins and Armagh pulling away, at least I hope this is the way it goes. I can't see an early blitz like the Fermanagh game as Down will be out to be solid at the back and spoil Armagh.
On the management side of things, I was just thinking during the week what will happen when McGeeney is replaced and the next manager encounters a bad run of form or a heavy defeat? Will the desenters be saying bring back the Geezer? As far as I can see the players are all bought into everything they do with McGeeney and are fully behind his ethos. I guess what I am saying is that there is always going to be problems and complaints with all management.
I just hope Armagh come out of their shell and have a rattle at it, whether the cautious approach is manager or player lead I feel they have a real opportunity to throw off the shackles and blow Down out of the water. I hope there is no but needed here.
Sundays game panned out how I expected it, game over after 20 minutes and I was happy with that. As a manager you want the team to go to the end but that rarely happens for several different reasons. There should be more of an edge and bite to the Down game afterall they are our true rivals in Ulster and I believe this will spur on both teams. On paper Armagh look superior and we should be expecting something similiar to last year. Down being in the game for 40-50 mins and Armagh pulling away, at least I hope this is the way it goes. I can't see an early blitz like the Fermanagh game as Down will be out to be solid at the back and spoil Armagh.
On the management side of things, I was just thinking during the week what will happen when McGeeney is replaced and the next manager encounters a bad run of form or a heavy defeat? Will the desenters be saying bring back the Geezer? As far as I can see the players are all bought into everything they do with McGeeney and are fully behind his ethos. I guess what I am saying is that there is always going to be problems and complaints with all management.
I just hope Armagh come out of their shell and have a rattle at it, whether the cautious approach is manager or player lead I feel they have a real opportunity to throw off the shackles and blow Down out of the water. I hope there is no but needed here.
winsamsoon
Well-Known Member
On another note did anyone see the video circulating of the tackle in the Cross/Bridge game? the lad shouldered into the fence. Anyone know if there was a card for the offence? Hope the Bridge lad made a full recovery.
Saw that yeah. Heard he had a broken hip
Patrick-Armagh
Well-Known Member
I thought Paddy Burns spoke so well on the GAA Social. Really interesting and articulate. Sounded like a top lad. Don't know that I would agree with him that McGeeney tells them to go out and attack every game. As someone else mentioned, they didn't pick defenders in our attack last season for the Monaghan game.
As for the game itself, we got the job done early and were able to pull up. It's never a satisfying watch when that happens, but we're miles ahead of Fermanagh. Down will be more of a test, but I still don't think they are any great shakes. We have to approach this game with the same intensity and mindset as we obviously did for Fermanagh. I just hope that we get more of a game from it, firstly to get us more tested and ready for a potential Ulster Final and purely from a spectacle point of view. The Championship is feeling really dead at the moment and a good game would add a bit of life to it.
As for the game itself, we got the job done early and were able to pull up. It's never a satisfying watch when that happens, but we're miles ahead of Fermanagh. Down will be more of a test, but I still don't think they are any great shakes. We have to approach this game with the same intensity and mindset as we obviously did for Fermanagh. I just hope that we get more of a game from it, firstly to get us more tested and ready for a potential Ulster Final and purely from a spectacle point of view. The Championship is feeling really dead at the moment and a good game would add a bit of life to it.
Ard Mhacha 13
Well-Known Member
It's hard to know what to think about the down game, I think they have improved from last year but shouldn't improve enough to change result, I see down as better attacking than Fermanagh and even Cavan but not sure they are better defensively, they seem to have alot of small fast players and have good potential for a few years time but I just feel they don't have the long range kickers and if we are defensively sound should be to big and strong for them, but I wouldn't take anything for granted, on the thread of goals and all that shite, for me you need to score close to 20 a game so it doesn't matter if that's by goals or points, that's what we need to aim to do
Another thing I'm interested in is how Dublin have let their older players rest the whole league and are now starting to bring them in so they are primed for championship, tbh I did say we should of done this with grugan, Campbell forker, murnin and a few others, we have a big squad and should of used it more imo, but we are not Dublin and I know winning all Ireland's and having an easy province makes this easier for them, but I'd of still of liked to rest those over 30/31 year olds during league
Good point - I think the 4 you mentioned find it tough to play a full game (Grugan is probably the least affected). The likes of Duffy, Nugent, TK etc have had very little game time in the league - the older boys could have been rested more
You’re playing a bit fast and loose with what I’m actually saying to create something of straw man here.
I’m not delegitimising any wins or saying that scoring goals is a bad thing, obviously. I also said we have relied on goals to beat bad teams (Fermanagh, down, cavan, Westmeath) and don’t count Galway as a bad team, so you’ve picked something up wrong there.
However, there is always some element of luck involved and it’s not uncommon for the goal to be a result of some error by the opposition rather than good attacking play, so they aren’t a good measure of how well a team is playing. That’s why that performance against Fermanagh doesn’t really give the feeling that we’re playing well at the moment.
It would’ve been better to see some real sharp point scoring, something that we could see replicated either against Down or in an Ulster final, but we’re left still hoping our forwards can find that kind of form.
To go back to the Galway round robin game, it does prove my point because that’s arguably our best win in a number of years, and we won it by scoring 15+ points, which we failed to do in all of our disappointing defeats over the last few years.