JoeH
Well-Known Member
McConville from Cross and McPartlan from Clans
Ulster Senior Football Championship 2021
- Thread starter Big Jim
- Start date
Armaghball
Well-Known Member
Think it was me who mentioned those 2 lads in the other thread. Cian McConville is county material and I’m sure everyone here will agree. Another fella Lennox I think his name is was wing forward for Clanns was very impressive, was mentioned on the sideline eye podcast that he’s only 18. Big fella who can play football and definitely one for the future potentially!
We have 20+ teams in Division 2 or 3 at underage because that is generally the standard they are at. What use is it playing fellas in Division 1 only to get beaten by 20 points. The divisions need to be even and competitive. That way competition can teach players to work harder, not quit and learn to win. Teams in Division 2 and 3 have good players...just not as many as the teams in Division 1.
There is some good work going on at underage in some clubs. Clann Eireann are well known but St Peters have a number of competitive underage teams and Clann na Gael. Killeavy have been improving too. Dromintee had an exceptionally good under 13 team last year. Armagh Harps are in their first minor final in quite a while.
What Armagh need is for the clubs to get their houses in order- with help from the County Board. Schools football for the most part is a waste of time unless the clubs have produced the players for them. Very few schools coaches aim to improve Armagh County football.
pablo
Well-Known Member
Yes-considering only affiliated clubs that focus on football, we have 44 (maybe 45?) clubs,. Based on same criteria, Tyrone have 48.
Whatever the number, point still stands
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pablo
Well-Known Member
Yes sir. Spot on.
Do you think it would be possible to develop some level of co ordination between county and schools? Or at least our clubs and schools in terms of coaching?
Savo01
Member
Schools to me are surely a bonus, clubs and county will develop players the most. Having lots of clubs is a good thing for underage football as it gives more kids game time, and time with their friends which is what they want at a young age. We are producing plenty of good players, especially forwards it seems. Molding a team is our main problem.
Another thing I have mooted many times is the idea of Divisional teams. If we insist on the level of clubs that we have maybe run 3-4 divisional teams from the junior and intermediate leagues who play in the senior championship. It’s done in Cork and Kerry and could only help things. It would be hard to implement due to club loyalty etc but it s worth a look
Armagh Gael
Member
Do you know if those clubs play in the junior championship separately as well as an amalgamation in the senior championship?
pablo
Well-Known Member
That 1977 breakthrough came about from a bit of re organization initiated a few years before. We had the basic same pool of players but we got our house in order in terms of vision, belief, and set up. I read an article by Peter Makem about Armagh-Down the 1961 Ulster Final. My Dad often talks about that game also. Down were the reigning All Ireland champions but we had them on the ropes. We should have closed it out but lost out to a dubious late goal. Armagh had many quality players then but instead of building on that performance, went off and disappeared into the wilderness for ages. Historically, we just seem to go for long periods gripped by a malaise. I don't believe it is because 'we are a small county' and 'good players only come around once in a generation' but its often that we fall into that way of thinking. That diminishes our self belief, drive and willingness to shake things up when needed
Armaghball
Well-Known Member
Yes they do. Theres 2 “senior” championships in Kerry I think. One for the senior clubs and then one that contains the senior clubs as well as the amalgamated teams. Junior and intermediate championships are run off as usual.
Savo01
Member
We get plenty of players from Junior clubs making it on the county team and always did, so I don't know if that is the answer to any of our problems.
Armaghball
Well-Known Member
Feck me. Surprised how low dublin are in terms of registered players considering the populationThis should help clear things up. Very interesting reading.
JoeH
Well-Known Member
I'd pass no remarks on that
The registration system allowed for duplicates, dual players and some clubs kept their membership artificially high as a a historical notion based on AI ticket allocation
If you take 45 clubs with on average 150 players - allows for 5 teams per club of 30 each that's 6750 registered players with probably and arguably over two thirds of those children.
So 45 adult teams with average of 35 players that's 1575 players. This allows for 2nd teams,reserve etc.
The figures get smaller unfortunately
Dropoff of underage players, adult players taking time out to travel etc.
This picture is replicated across the country. By taking this into account for a county team to have the players required requires a bit of luck and strong functioning clubs that can produce footballers.
I have never bought into the whole school thing. Schools just want the best 15 available, train them hard and hopefully win. The players school season is short.
It's the club that provides long term games and coaching. The county provides specific training within development squads for the players who may make county squads
The registration system allowed for duplicates, dual players and some clubs kept their membership artificially high as a a historical notion based on AI ticket allocation
If you take 45 clubs with on average 150 players - allows for 5 teams per club of 30 each that's 6750 registered players with probably and arguably over two thirds of those children.
So 45 adult teams with average of 35 players that's 1575 players. This allows for 2nd teams,reserve etc.
The figures get smaller unfortunately
Dropoff of underage players, adult players taking time out to travel etc.
This picture is replicated across the country. By taking this into account for a county team to have the players required requires a bit of luck and strong functioning clubs that can produce footballers.
I have never bought into the whole school thing. Schools just want the best 15 available, train them hard and hopefully win. The players school season is short.
It's the club that provides long term games and coaching. The county provides specific training within development squads for the players who may make county squads
Diarmi
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="JoeH, post: 33478, member: 41"]I'd pass no remarks on that
The registration system allowed for duplicates, dual players and some clubs kept their membership artificially high as a a historical notion based on AI ticket allocation
If you take 45 clubs with on average 150 players - allows for 5 teams per club of 30 each that's 6750 registered players with probably and arguably over two thirds of those children.
So 45 adult teams with average of 35 players that's 1575 players. This allows for 2nd teams,reserve etc.
The figures get smaller unfortunately
Dropoff of underage players, adult players taking time out to travel etc.
This picture is replicated across the country. By taking this into account for a county team to have the players required requires a bit of luck and strong functioning clubs that can produce footballers.
I have never bought into the whole school thing. Schools just want the best 15 available, train them hard and hopefully win. The players school season is short.
It's the club that provides long term games and coaching. The county provides specific training within development squads for the players who may make county squads[/QUOTE]
The graphic was purely in relation to the playing population of Armagh versus Tyrone. I'm guessing the same anomalies would apply to both counties.
The registration system allowed for duplicates, dual players and some clubs kept their membership artificially high as a a historical notion based on AI ticket allocation
If you take 45 clubs with on average 150 players - allows for 5 teams per club of 30 each that's 6750 registered players with probably and arguably over two thirds of those children.
So 45 adult teams with average of 35 players that's 1575 players. This allows for 2nd teams,reserve etc.
The figures get smaller unfortunately
Dropoff of underage players, adult players taking time out to travel etc.
This picture is replicated across the country. By taking this into account for a county team to have the players required requires a bit of luck and strong functioning clubs that can produce footballers.
I have never bought into the whole school thing. Schools just want the best 15 available, train them hard and hopefully win. The players school season is short.
It's the club that provides long term games and coaching. The county provides specific training within development squads for the players who may make county squads[/QUOTE]
The graphic was purely in relation to the playing population of Armagh versus Tyrone. I'm guessing the same anomalies would apply to both counties.
Savo01
Member
The Irish News article in August was interesting in relation to the lack of players from cities and large towns across Ulster playing for county teams despite the funding in place. Nobody from a Newry club has played for Down since 2012, no player from Armagh or Derry played a minute, 1 from Enniskillen and 1 from Letterkenny. 7 from Belfast for Antrim, but this was 10 in 2009. A hell of a lot of funding is going into these big populations but it is not developing county players it seems.
Diarmi
Well-Known Member
I always felt a great part of Cross's success was due to their large pick and the fact that they did not have the same drop out rate as other clubs with similar populations. Keady being the opposite although granted there is no hurling in Cross.
