ragingbull
Well-Known Member
I think Kevin McStay is on one of them not sure if it's ccccccc tho
Allianz Football League 2022 Division 1
- Thread starter Diarmi
- Start date
Armagh_paul
Well-Known Member
This is Clutching at straws but I would like to point out, I am sure there is another camera angle because there is a cherry picker sitting behind the Armagh goal in the second half and that would have likely had a camera man on it. Can't see any other reason for why a cherry picker would be at that height if it wasn't being used.
However, I was trying to find what was happening with Grugan at the end of the game. Some fans have said Murphy did something to Grugan but it was not captured on the TV camera. However, on TV you can clearly see the linesman spotted something going on so much so he jogged a good 30 yards to put an end to it. I am wondering despite seeing this and having to intervene, did the linesman report this? In addition to this, there is possibly another camera angle that has not been shown.
Part of me does not want to probe this considering what has happened but if there is other video evidence surely Armagh management have the right to see it.
Peter grimes
Well-Known Member
I wasn’t at the match but given it’s their ground and we play them in the championship I would imagine Donegal put a camera up there to monitor our kick outs and positioning. It would be pretty amateurish if Donegal did not do that. That camera would not be available to penalise or exonerate Armagh. Whether Donegal could bring it forward to defend one of their own is not something i am not qualified to say. But it’s not something we can influence
MrMaguire2002
Well-Known Member
Trying to look forward rather than back.
Should all bans remain what 15 are we potentially looking at?
Few ifs and buts in here. Basically if Oisin O'Neill and Turbitt were going well in training I'd start them. A fit Oisin could easily play at 11 (or 14 for that matter).
1. E. Rafferty/ B.Hughes
2. J. Morgan
3. A. Forker
4. A. McKay/ P.Burns
5. C.Mackin/ C. O'Neill
6. G. McCabe
7. J Og Burns
8. Crealey
9. Grimley/ O. O'Neill
10. R. Grugan/ C. O'Neill
11. O.O'Neill/ R. Grugan
12. T. Kelly/ J. Hall
13. J. Duffy
14. A. Murnin
15. C. Turbitt
Bench: ( 4 of the above), R. McQuillan, C. O'Hanlon, C. McConville, S. Sheridan, M. Shields, N. Rowland, C. Higgins.
Think that would be the 26 if all injury free. No doubt I'm forgetting someone obvious.
Considering the 4 suspended that is by no means a bad team. Shows the depth we have.
Should all bans remain what 15 are we potentially looking at?
Few ifs and buts in here. Basically if Oisin O'Neill and Turbitt were going well in training I'd start them. A fit Oisin could easily play at 11 (or 14 for that matter).
1. E. Rafferty/ B.Hughes
2. J. Morgan
3. A. Forker
4. A. McKay/ P.Burns
5. C.Mackin/ C. O'Neill
6. G. McCabe
7. J Og Burns
8. Crealey
9. Grimley/ O. O'Neill
10. R. Grugan/ C. O'Neill
11. O.O'Neill/ R. Grugan
12. T. Kelly/ J. Hall
13. J. Duffy
14. A. Murnin
15. C. Turbitt
Bench: ( 4 of the above), R. McQuillan, C. O'Hanlon, C. McConville, S. Sheridan, M. Shields, N. Rowland, C. Higgins.
Think that would be the 26 if all injury free. No doubt I'm forgetting someone obvious.
Considering the 4 suspended that is by no means a bad team. Shows the depth we have.
Ná habair é
Member
CCCC current members: Derek Kent Wexford (Chairperson)
Mary Judge Galway
John Halbert Cork
Seamus Kenny Meath
Martin McHugh DONEGAL
Mary Judge Galway
John Halbert Cork
Seamus Kenny Meath
Martin McHugh DONEGAL
Armaghmad00
Active Member
Says a lot if there's a Donegal man involved
Peter grimes
Well-Known Member
No evidence that he was involved though. I would imagine there are rules that require him to recuse himself in this instance
Armaghball
Well-Known Member
You’d like to think so!
Ard Mhacha 13
Well-Known Member
Surely to god even the GAA wouldn't allow someone representing a county involved in the incident to help rule on the outcome?!?!!
The man can't even be impartial when commentating on a match involving his own county!
Armagh_paul
Well-Known Member
Still hell of a team to have based on league form. If anything 1-9 then 10/12 possibly 13 are going to get much better.
PatMustard
Well-Known Member
You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry.
PatMustard
Well-Known Member
That’s the GAA equivalent of having an Orangeman on the Parades Commission.Surely to god even the GAA wouldn't allow someone representing a county involved in the incident to help rule on the outcome?!?!!
The man can't even be impartial when commentating on a match involving his own county!
PatMustard
Well-Known Member
Yeah you have a point. Wasn’t it strange that RTE could find mobile phone footage of the Tyrone melee, but couldn’t find any of Rian’s penalty?
So, whether or not the CCCCCC look at mobile phone footage is irrelevant, as RTE have already become judge, jury and executioner.
Big Jim
Well-Known Member
I can't be 100% that this is exactly right, but trying to remember back a few years and maybe even in the old forum, I think that video evidence "may" be used if recorded in full by either an official county camera or a broadcaster - RTE as an example.
These are done with permission from HQ (I think) and have to be provided in full and unedited on request. Only an unedited and verifiable version of video evidence may be used. Mobile phone or unofficial recordings have to be disregarded as they are easy to manipulate.
Couple of things on that though:
I can't be sure if that is for defence only or if it was to be used for retrospective bans after a game.
I was fairly sure that there was quite a debate about using video evidence to "accuse" a player not mentioned in a refs report, but think it was still a grey area.
I think if we use video evidence to allow an appeal, then we should have to have it used against us too (that's the royal us and not just Armagh)
I again can't be certain, but to say that we got another citation because of an appeal is bit far fetched. It really takes us far into the realms of paranoia - I know I have joked about the nordie thing many times, but lads.........
If the bans stick it'll be a bridge too far I'd imagine against a Donegal team who are edging towards the end of a squad with a decent shot at silverware. I still think we can give them a good game and we should have a good strong panel to give the back door a shot. Disappointing if Mackin's injury is for real - he was having a great season - hope he's OK and back up and running soon.
pablo
Well-Known Member
Thanks Big man for a considered and informed reply. Just case my post suggested otherwise- I didn't think the Rians citation arose from as a result of the appeal process, I was just clarifying for myself in the first part of my post that the two sets of citations had come through separate processes.
I’m annoyed that we got sucked into this situation.-but I still can’t help but feel we were ambushed; an element of paranoia to that opinion I know but I do accept we walked into this situation and now have a case to answer to.
But something about how this has played out in terms of rulings and factors that have influenced those rulings just doesn’t feel right and I definitely could stomach these decisions a little better if I knew the processes behind making them were being applied consistently, fairly and with an appropriate level of professionalism. And that applies to the footage submitted as evidence. I would hope what was used by the CCC was according to the requirements you list. If going to be used as the basis for decisions to select any player(s) for suspension, it needs to be done properly, capturing as much of the event with an unbiased view as possible. Still, it is just difficult to fathom how footage of any clear and comprehensive quality could only manage to forensically pick out Rian and no Donegal players but if this was truly the case so be it.
I don’t want to go over all the various permutations as to what happened to whom at the end of the game in Letterkenny, but I was in a very good position when the whole thing kicked off and I didn’t see either punches or headlocks used by anyone. Of course that didn’t mean that they never happened, but I didn’t see any. What I saw was the usual grabbing, pulling, mouthing off, etc. Could anyone upload video showing anything definitive?
What disturbs me most is why, when a player or team utilises their right to appeal, the tribunal gets to not only rule on the appeal but to issue punishment to players who were not involved in the offences which were being appealed. In other words ‘you have a right to appeal but we can sniff around and get you for daring to do so’. Strange justice!
What disturbs me most is why, when a player or team utilises their right to appeal, the tribunal gets to not only rule on the appeal but to issue punishment to players who were not involved in the offences which were being appealed. In other words ‘you have a right to appeal but we can sniff around and get you for daring to do so’. Strange justice!
William Of Orange
Well-Known Member
hmmmm
Big Jim
Well-Known Member
Never doubted your integrity or sincerity for a single second. Apologies! The bit in bold didn't refer to you (an example of quoting someone's post and being used by me incorrectly) but it was suggested, in fact mentioned as a fact by some.
Mind you, you are also spot on with the round up and express how I feel about the inconsistent application of punishments. We can't help feel being "made an example of"! As some suggest and I agree we rightly deserved to be punished for infraction. But by that logic, our honesty allows us the right to ask why others didn't have the same applied.
I was determined not to comment on the events directly, but feel there are three incidents I think should have been mentioned and either not picked up by others or just not felt important.
On watching the footage over a few times I've noticed"
A steward from Donegal (wearing a hi vis vest) is clearing seen getting involved and physically manhandling at least two of our players
A Donegal backroom member (youngish lad) wearing a tracksuit and vest (like the Maor Foirne vest but can't identify what is on it, is clearly seen swinging a left hook and making contact with an unidentifiable Armagh player (unidentifiable as there's so many in the crowd.
A Donegal sub/backroom member wearing black shorts and a vest is clearly seen jumping into the foray and striking at least one of our players and pulling at a few others until he appears to get an elbow to the chin from Donegal #6 or #8 - not that clear, but he seems to skulk away after that.
I'll not name the player, but I'm astounded that one of our lads wasn't also cited for what looked like a two handed/fist punch clearly to a Donegal player.
We're far from innocent, but by an equal amount, we're far from being the worst at it. Obviously there are a lot of other incidents, but I can't remember who above also said something like, why wasn't there at least 20 players cited.
All that said, it's time to look forward. We take whatever punishment we get regardless of when it is settled, either with or without appeals going in our favour. We're not going into Championship with all our team intact no matter if he had OJ Simpson's legal team. We just have to accept that. It is of our making. If we get caught speeding we can't say, sure everyone else is at it and use that as a defence. Hateful as it is, we didn't learn after getting off light against Tyrone. In fact it made our lads think they were like Teflon.