Is it time for change?

[Armaghabroad22]

I've been on both sides of the fence regarding change of management for next year. Immediately after the Ulster final and again after the Monaghan game, my feeling was that we needed a fresh take on things.
With some time, I probably now feel that McGeeney should stay for one last year.
Given we have a slightly older demographic of players, with a few stalwarts likely to retire next season, it would be better for continuity.
It also sounds like McGeeney has the players backing, and although supporters are important and the people paying through the turnstiles, you need a manager that the players are willing to play for and put in the graft.
I think if we were to change management this year, the upheaval would run the risk of the wheels completely coming off the cart - when actually what we need is some degree of consistency to push on and back into the first division again and be in contention for Ulster championship and the group stages.
And realistically? Who would replace Geezer? Can they, in one season drive the team on further? Will they have the backing of players and supporters? Are they someone we would be happy to have 2-3 seasons of as a minimum - because realistically that's the time frame most managers now need to put their stamp on a team.
And what happens if some of the older players didn't want to play for them and took retirement, what impact would that have on a team already going through a change in structure and likely style of play?
I have a feeling the club vote will go against Geezer, but if it was down to the team he would stay. Time will tell.

 

[Armamike]

Agreed will be closer
General feeling among a fair few in my club is management aren’t learning .
Derry and Monaghan were exact replica situations yet we did the same thing with the same consequences .

The games were almost identical. We should have been well aware after the Derry game.

 

[Armamike]

I've been on both sides of the fence regarding change of management for next year. Immediately after the Ulster final and again after the Monaghan game, my feeling was that we needed a fresh take on things.
With some time, I probably now feel that McGeeney should stay for one last year.
Given we have a slightly older demographic of players, with a few stalwarts likely to retire next season, it would be better for continuity.
It also sounds like McGeeney has the players backing, and although supporters are important and the people paying through the turnstiles, you need a manager that the players are willing to play for and put in the graft.
I think if we were to change management this year, the upheaval would run the risk of the wheels completely coming off the cart - when actually what we need is some degree of consistency to push on and back into the first division again and be in contention for Ulster championship and the group stages.
And realistically? Who would replace Geezer? Can they, in one season drive the team on further? Will they have the backing of players and supporters? Are they someone we would be happy to have 2-3 seasons of as a minimum - because realistically that's the time frame most managers now need to put their stamp on a team.
And what happens if some of the older players didn't want to play for them and took retirement, what impact would that have on a team already going through a change in structure and likely style of play?
I have a feeling the club vote will go against Geezer, but if it was down to the team he would stay. Time will tell.

It's interesting to see the level of loyalty Geezer attracts from the players. It was the same in Kildare. Very similar football experiences with both counties. Even players who are on the fringes of the panel seem to be fiercely loyal to him. Whatever he does or says within the group fosters strong loyalty. I don't think I've ever seen that degree of loyalty before where there has been no silverware over a period. Usually dissenting voices and cracks appear after a couple of years but Geezer seems to be able to prevent that happening. It's pretty unique.

 

[ShiftYa]

It's interesting to see the level of loyalty Geezer attracts from the players. It was the same in Kildare. Very similar football experiences with both counties. Even players who are on the fringes of the panel seem to be fiercely loyal to him. Whatever he does or says within the group fosters strong loyalty. I don't think I've ever seen that degree of loyalty before where there has been no silverware over a period. Usually dissenting voices and cracks appear after a couple of years but Geezer seems to be able to prevent that happening. It's pretty unique.

Or it could be a case dissenting players won’t speak out when there’s a chance he’ll return next year.

 

[Bringyourboots]

If ratified for another year can the board add conditions such as appointment of a number 2?

 

[Androim]

If ratified for another year can the board add conditions such as appointment of a number 2?

Bad idea.

 

[John]

I am amazed at how some are convinced one more year. I've heard this a few times over the last 6, 7 years. It won't make any difference. It was only the introduction of new backroom staff that got geezer to move from ultra defensive play. Do you not all remember the agony watching us passing the ball played from side to side in our own half, afraid of losing possession, despite being well behind against Donegal in the athletic grounds. How many games in the league did we throw away good leads. We missed out on promotion, then we scraped promotion. Geezer in an interview praised how they did getting promoted. ( Sounded more a bit like him taking the credit). Then relegation back to division 3. These were horrible years for an Armagh supporter.
We had lost an all Ireland quarter final by a point against Donegal after leading with 5 mins to go. We also beat Tyrone that same year in Omagh. We were a good team then.
Geezer then took over. Why do people reckon then Geezer took us forward, built a better team.

No player generally will say anything bad about their manager.
Also a player who only wants to play for a particular manager appears to be more invested in his own selfish interests than that of the County.

I will say Geezers management had a very good 2022.

However 2023, those who say fine margins.
What if the ref hadn't been so generous with added time and soft frees in the athletic grounds against mayo this year in the league would we have got the draw.

What if we hadn't put our best players on so early in the league would we have beaten Monaghan and would they have been better prepared later.

What if Galway had scored that penalty in Carrick on Shannon, would they have gone on and beaten us well?

We were therefore also sometimes on the right side of fine margins.

I'm sorry, but Geezers behaviour, shouldering a Monaghan player on the field after confronting the referee before the start of extra time in the quarter final, did that help out cause?

Not every great footballer is a successful manager.

I truly believe we definitely could have done much better in the last 8 years. We had and still have great talented footballers.

 

[FearArdMhacha]

I am amazed at how some are convinced one more year. I've heard this a few times over the last 6, 7 years. It won't make any difference. It was only the introduction of new backroom staff that got geezer to move from ultra defensive play. Do you not all remember the agony watching us passing the ball played from side to side in our own half, afraid of losing possession, despite being well behind against Donegal in the athletic grounds. How many games in the league did we throw away good leads. We missed out on promotion, then we scraped promotion. Geezer in an interview praised how they did getting promoted. ( Sounded more a bit like him taking the credit). Then relegation back to division 3. These were horrible years for an Armagh supporter.
We had lost an all Ireland quarter final by a point against Donegal after leading with 5 mins to go. We also beat Tyrone that same year in Omagh. We were a good team then.
Geezer then took over. Why do people reckon then Geezer took us forward, built a better team.

No player generally will say anything bad about their manager.
Also a player who only wants to play for a particular manager appears to be more invested in his own selfish interests than that of the County.

I will say Geezers management had a very good 2022.

However 2023, those who say fine margins.
What if the ref hadn't been so generous with added time and soft frees in the athletic grounds against mayo this year in the league would we have got the draw.

What if we hadn't put our best players on so early in the league would we have beaten Monaghan and would they have been better prepared later.

What if Galway had scored that penalty in Carrick on Shannon, would they have gone on and beaten us well?

We were therefore also sometimes on the right side of fine margins.

I'm sorry, but Geezers behaviour, shouldering a Monaghan player on the field after confronting the referee before the start of extra time in the quarter final, did that help out cause?

Not every great footballer is a successful manager.

I truly believe we definitely could have done much better in the last 8 years. We had and still have great talented footballers.

Yep we’re on about the fourth one more year and each year it’s less of a compelling argument. In 2022 we peaked under Geezer and from memory we needed to benefit from far fewer small margins, bar the Galway game. 2023 the small margins made a huge difference both for and against us. Added to that the team looked to be playing well within themselves with an element of fear. Donaghy has seen enough.

I think that if certain players would only stay for McGeeney then we’re as well without them. I’m dubious of that argument anyhow. The likelihood is that they would all give it another year and if they werent seeing much game time then they’d be inclined to call it a day. When you go, you’re gone and they all know that.

I’m not sure how we should measure the success of management next year but one thing I want to see is the team really going for it. I think we’ll have the same management in 2024 and we’ll be frustrated again. I’ve not really heard anyone saying ‘we’ve done so well in the last 9 years.’

 

[Ouch It’s Francie]

Hhhhmmm….

So Geezer’s team had a good 2022 where we got beaten in the first round against Donegal and were put out on penalties against Galway.

But 2023 somehow was a poor year where we get to Ulster Final for the first time in 15 years, get beaten on penalties by the reigning champions? We beat the pundits favourites for the All-Ireland, Galway, the same team that “roasted” us in Croke Park and knock them out. Get to an all Ireland quarter final, underperform and get knocked out on penalties again.

Don’t understand the logic one bit.

Every single game we played this year we were one kick of the ball from winning it and losing it. This is against the top teams, the Kerry’s, Mayo’s, Galway’s, Tyrone’s of this world. We are a battle hardened team that are incredibly hard to beat - ask any football folk from other counties. No one turned us over this year, no one.

The journey we have been on since we last were accepted at the top table has been long and hard. In my opinion Kieran McGenney has the right to hold his head very high - he’s brought us back to that table.

I don't criticise those that demand success but it is him that has roused the county from their slumbers and filled the Athletic Grounds.

It’s easy to parrot the high stool experts but the project is not yet finished I am still with the architect.

 

[Armaghabroad22]

I am amazed at how some are convinced one more year. I've heard this a few times over the last 6, 7 years. It won't make any difference. It was only the introduction of new backroom staff that got geezer to move from ultra defensive play. Do you not all remember the agony watching us passing the ball played from side to side in our own half, afraid of losing possession, despite being well behind against Donegal in the athletic grounds. How many games in the league did we throw away good leads. We missed out on promotion, then we scraped promotion. Geezer in an interview praised how they did getting promoted. ( Sounded more a bit like him taking the credit). Then relegation back to division 3. These were horrible years for an Armagh supporter.
We had lost an all Ireland quarter final by a point against Donegal after leading with 5 mins to go. We also beat Tyrone that same year in Omagh. We were a good team then.
Geezer then took over. Why do people reckon then Geezer took us forward, built a better team.

No player generally will say anything bad about their manager.
Also a player who only wants to play for a particular manager appears to be more invested in his own selfish interests than that of the County.

I will say Geezers management had a very good 2022.

However 2023, those who say fine margins.
What if the ref hadn't been so generous with added time and soft frees in the athletic grounds against mayo this year in the league would we have got the draw.

What if we hadn't put our best players on so early in the league would we have beaten Monaghan and would they have been better prepared later.

What if Galway had scored that penalty in Carrick on Shannon, would they have gone on and beaten us well?

We were therefore also sometimes on the right side of fine margins.

I'm sorry, but Geezers behaviour, shouldering a Monaghan player on the field after confronting the referee before the start of extra time in the quarter final, did that help out cause?

Not every great footballer is a successful manager.

I truly believe we definitely could have done much better in the last 8 years. We had and still have great talented footballers.

So we were a good team then because we only lost by a point to Donegal in and All Ireland quarter final?

 

[Diarmi]

I've yet to hear any compelling argument for McGeeney's retention. What we hear is "he deserves one more year", "he built a team from nothing", "he brings in money", "he is very unlucky", "it's all fine margins", "if he goes al lot of players will go". None of these point to a manager who will bring success to a county.
It is often said that a team wins a championship but a manager loses it but in this case it appears to be the other way around.
I would love to hear someone give me an argument for us keeping McGeeney that points to evidence that next year "the one last one" will be any different than before.

 

[Diarmi]

On a side note, it has been very interesting watching all the well timed newspaper and online reports and interviews with current players backing McGeeney. He is obviously skilled in getting his message to the public. If he is retained next year (which I think he will) I have no doubt these media interjections will have played a significant part in persuading club delegates to back him.
Smacks a bit of desperation, maybe he could follow his old clubmate into politics.......

 

[Gaamaniac]

On a side note, it has been very interesting watching all the well timed newspaper and online reports and interviews with current players backing McGeeney. He is obviously skilled in getting his message to the public. If he is retained next year (which I think he will) I have no doubt these media interjections will have played a significant part in persuading club delegates to back him.
Smacks a bit of desperation, maybe he could follow his old clubmate into politics.......

have to say i agree with this. I dont think ive ever seen another manager in any sport get this publicity about backing him to stay in the job, definitely not in the GAA. It is a bit of desperation

 

[niall1980]

I am amazed at how some are convinced one more year. I've heard this a few times over the last 6, 7 years. It won't make any difference. It was only the introduction of new backroom staff that got geezer to move from ultra defensive play. Do you not all remember the agony watching us passing the ball played from side to side in our own half, afraid of losing possession, despite being well behind against Donegal in the athletic grounds. How many games in the league did we throw away good leads. We missed out on promotion, then we scraped promotion. Geezer in an interview praised how they did getting promoted. ( Sounded more a bit like him taking the credit). Then relegation back to division 3. These were horrible years for an Armagh supporter.
We had lost an all Ireland quarter final by a point against Donegal after leading with 5 mins to go. We also beat Tyrone that same year in Omagh. We were a good team then.
Geezer then took over. Why do people reckon then Geezer took us forward, built a better team.

No player generally will say anything bad about their manager.
Also a player who only wants to play for a particular manager appears to be more invested in his own selfish interests than that of the County.

I will say Geezers management had a very good 2022.

However 2023, those who say fine margins.
What if the ref hadn't been so generous with added time and soft frees in the athletic grounds against mayo this year in the league would we have got the draw.

What if we hadn't put our best players on so early in the league would we have beaten Monaghan and would they have been better prepared later.

What if Galway had scored that penalty in Carrick on Shannon, would they have gone on and beaten us well?

We were therefore also sometimes on the right side of fine margins.

I'm sorry, but Geezers behaviour, shouldering a Monaghan player on the field after confronting the referee before the start of extra time in the quarter final, did that help out cause?

Not every great footballer is a successful manager.

I truly believe we definitely could have done much better in the last 8 years. We had and still have great talented footballers.

Lost an AIQF by a point after leading with 5 mins to go.
So we couldn’t hold on to leads before Geezer became manager eh??

 

[niall1980]

Hhhhmmm….

So Geezer’s team had a good 2022 where we got beaten in the first round against Donegal and were put out on penalties against Galway.

But 2023 somehow was a poor year where we get to Ulster Final for the first time in 15 years, get beaten on penalties by the reigning champions? We beat the pundits favourites for the All-Ireland, Galway, the same team that “roasted” us in Croke Park and knock them out. Get to an all Ireland quarter final, underperform and get knocked out on penalties again.

Don’t understand the logic one bit.

Every single game we played this year we were one kick of the ball from winning it and losing it. This is against the top teams, the Kerry’s, Mayo’s, Galway’s, Tyrone’s of this world. We are a battle hardened team that are incredibly hard to beat - ask any football folk from other counties. No one turned us over this year, no one.

The journey we have been on since we last were accepted at the top table has been long and hard. In my opinion Kieran McGenney has the right to hold his head very high - he’s brought us back to that table.

I don't criticise those that demand success but it is him that has roused the county from their slumbers and filled the Athletic Grounds.

It’s easy to parrot the high stool experts but the project is not yet finished I am still with the architect.

We didn’t knock out Galway

 

[niall1980]

So Geezer is making players go to the papers to speak up for him in an attempt to get the clubs to give him another year. Ok.

 

[thecritic]

Will be good to know soon what the story is for next year.

Whatever the decision, let's hope there will be someone tactically shrewd on the line in some capacity to join the excellent motivators that are already there.

 

[JoeH]

Hhhhmmm….

So Geezer’s team had a good 2022 where we got beaten in the first round against Donegal and were put out on penalties against Galway.

But 2023 somehow was a poor year where we get to Ulster Final for the first time in 15 years, get beaten on penalties by the reigning champions? We beat the pundits favourites for the All-Ireland, Galway, the same team that “roasted” us in Croke Park and knock them out. Get to an all Ireland quarter final, underperform and get knocked out on penalties again.

Don’t understand the logic one bit.

Every single game we played this year we were one kick of the ball from winning it and losing it. This is against the top teams, the Kerry’s, Mayo’s, Galway’s, Tyrone’s of this world. We are a battle hardened team that are incredibly hard to beat - ask any football folk from other counties. No one turned us over this year, no one.

The journey we have been on since we last were accepted at the top table has been long and hard. In my opinion Kieran McGenney has the right to hold his head very high - he’s brought us back to that table.

I don't criticise those that demand success but it is him that has roused the county from their slumbers and filled the Athletic Grounds.

It’s easy to parrot the high stool experts but the project is not yet finished I am still with the architect.

I think this is an excellent post
Very balanced.

Teams setup this year to stop Armagh from playing such was the respect they had for Armagh.

Yes it's been frustrating at times but this squad and management (not so sure Donaghy will leave this year) needs to go again. Maybe another voice is needed to help everyone.
The alternative being in division 2 is trying to rebuild and trying to get to division 1 as opposed to staying out of possible drop to division 3.

We all want Armagh to do well - we've supported the team through the hard and good years. We will continue to do so.

 

[JoeH]

Yep we’re on about the fourth one more year and each year it’s less of a compelling argument. In 2022 we peaked under Geezer and from memory we needed to benefit from far fewer small margins, bar the Galway game. 2023 the small margins made a huge difference both for and against us. Added to that the team looked to be playing well within themselves with an element of fear. Donaghy has seen enough.

I think that if certain players would only stay for McGeeney then we’re as well without them. I’m dubious of that argument anyhow. The likelihood is that they would all give it another year and if they werent seeing much game time then they’d be inclined to call it a day. When you go, you’re gone and they all know that.

I’m not sure how we should measure the success of management next year but one thing I want to see is the team really going for it. I think we’ll have the same management in 2024 and we’ll be frustrated again. I’ve not really heard anyone saying ‘we’ve done so well in the last 9 years.’

This thing about a 'fourth' one year
There is no such thing as 3yr contracts. Managers are ratified on a yearly basis by the county committee which is made up of club delegates and county officers.
Every year this happens.

All the best players in the county and who want to play for the county are involved

 

[Armaghabroad22]

On a side note, it has been very interesting watching all the well timed newspaper and online reports and interviews with current players backing McGeeney. He is obviously skilled in getting his message to the public. If he is retained next year (which I think he will) I have no doubt these media interjections will have played a significant part in persuading club delegates to back him.
Smacks a bit of desperation, maybe he could follow his old clubmate into politics.......

I appreciate this is not necessarily aimed at me, but none of my argument for McGeeney staying on is on the basis of money, luck or fine margins, nor have I said he deserves it.

Players wanting to play for management is however huge, and the risk of players deciding they may not want to commit for another year if there was a change in leader is something we do have to consider, particularly when we relied so heavily this year on some of the older lads to push us over the line. It's not just about wanting to play for a particular person, it's also the people management and style of football and backroom team that individual brings. And we still don't have any solid idea of who might take that role if McGeeney were to leave.

We only have to look at Donegal and their unfolding this year. I certainly don't know the full ins and outs of what happened in their camp, but changes in management can be huge for squad consistency and performance.

I also think the idea of McGeeney somehow orchestrating players to come out and support him in the media is ludicrous. You are talking about grown men with their own views and opinions which they are more than entitled to have and voice.