Ulster Senior Football Championship 2020

thecritic

Well-Known Member
McGeeney's record in Ulster has been very poor but I think he deserves a shot at developing this team next year with division 1 football to hopefully support that. For me, that will have been enough of a shot - time to give someone else a go to freshen-up the set-up - I think even the most hardened McGeeney supporter would agree with that. Nobody is questionning his commitment etc.
When you struggle against Clare and Derry you're really not going to have much of a chance against a top 4 team. That's what's really disappointing for me - we didn't really hit our peak post lockdown.
 

ragingbull

Well-Known Member
McGeeney's record in Ulster has been very poor but I think he deserves a shot at developing this team next year with division 1 football to hopefully support that. For me, that will have been enough of a shot - time to give someone else a go to freshen-up the set-up - I think even the most hardened McGeeney supporter would agree with that. Nobody is questionning his commitment etc.
When you struggle against Clare and Derry you're really not going to have much of a chance against a top 4 team. That's what's really disappointing for me - we didn't really hit our peak post lockdown.
His record as Kildare manager against ulster teams was poor too
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
Poor enough alright that. I felt with about 10 minutes or so left in the first half we had given up and it was over. At no point after that did it look like we were getting back in.

Soupy was unbelievably poor today which was so disappointing as he really stepped it up this year.

Was there an issue with the team? The body language even during what you could see of the warm up before the game didn't inspire confidence.

Coldrick is a ref that tends not to favour one team and other than a few baffling decisions (and we can't be inside his head and see what he sees or hears from his officials) I don't believe he was overly bad. Certainly didn't cost us the game. If I remember right from the Twitter graphic, we got about the same amount of frees.

Hate to do this, but Blaine was to blame directly for several of their scores. Don't remember exactly, but I know he drove the ball straight to Donegal on at least 3 occasions [that I can think of] and they scored almost instantly. No player gave him options either which didn't help, but Donegal pushed up on us all the time and they knew we would struggle and boy did we struggle.

Our midfield was woeful. Either that or they were non existent.

Rory Grugan had a seriously off day. Rian had a seriously off day. Oisin actually was really hard working by the look of things.

Was there an issue with the team? (yes I have put that down twice)

I thought Aidan Forker was just about the best player we had on show, and gave Murphy no respect at all. He certainly wasn't intimidated by him. Yes he was rugby tackled by Murphy early on and Murphy knew he was wrong as he started shouting immediately at the ref to distract him - clever as it worked! Didn't notice the ball throwing at the end, but they did both shake hands with Barry Cassidy talking to both and Aidan obviously didn't take kindly to what he said.

I'll now concede and join the voices that Geezer has maybe done as much as he can with this team. Not for the reasons others have said, but simply because he's tried [hard] and seems to be static. Whilst acknowledging he has taken us to division 1 which will most likely see him given another extension, at the very least his backroom needs a shake up - real good one. Jim McCorry should maybe stay for his experience, but Denis?? Not sure what he contributes although he's a likeable guy and a county employee, so most likely will stay too! What has Paddy McKeever added? What high level experience has he brought to the table? Same thing with John Toal. These were all great servants to our county and still are, but other than the promotions, we are still hurting today. We always seem to have have a lot of stats people and GPS stuff. What exactly do those people and the equipment add? I know almost all counties use this with similar personnel, but is that what brings the like of Dublin success or is it simply just the players.

Strength and conditioning gets a regular mention, but I think I'm right in saying it's the yoga professional that looks after that. The same lass that was around in '02. Is that a weakness? I'm sure she's good at her job, but is it another area to improve?

Someone from outside the county is the call, but there are some within that know success or at least relative success. Yes the McEntees are great lads and I believe they have something to give. Still not convinced that they would take it on though - at any price! What about the McGilly lad from Annaghmore? He's been successful at Sigerson and also got Moy an All Ireland title. I know he's with Down at the minute, but has he ever been approached?

I don't think Geezer should be run out of town. I'd prefer continuity, but maybe a different voice inside the head, can ignite a spark. Then again, maybe it's a complete emptying of the cupboard and a few new brooms is what is called for. No answers to that, just hurting with disappointment this evening and not because I really thought we would win, but more I thought we'd give a better account of ourselves. A more passionate account. A more proud account. We're a proud, passionate county, but looking at the tanking today and compare that to the last result Donegal got against the neighbours, makes you wonder where the passion and pride was today.

Ah well, we breathe and go again next term! Merry Christmas everyone, wherever you are!
Poor enough alright that. I felt with about 10 minutes or so left in the first half we had given up and it was over. At no point after that did it look like we were getting back in.

Soupy was unbelievably poor today which was so disappointing as he really stepped it up this year.

Was there an issue with the team? The body language even during what you could see of the warm up before the game didn't inspire confidence.

Coldrick is a ref that tends not to favour one team and other than a few baffling decisions (and we can't be inside his head and see what he sees or hears from his officials) I don't believe he was overly bad. Certainly didn't cost us the game. If I remember right from the Twitter graphic, we got about the same amount of frees.

Hate to do this, but Blaine was to blame directly for several of their scores. Don't remember exactly, but I know he drove the ball straight to Donegal on at least 3 occasions [that I can think of] and they scored almost instantly. No player gave him options either which didn't help, but Donegal pushed up on us all the time and they knew we would struggle and boy did we struggle.

Our midfield was woeful. Either that or they were non existent.

Rory Grugan had a seriously off day. Rian had a seriously off day. Oisin actually was really hard working by the look of things.

Was there an issue with the team? (yes I have put that down twice)

I thought Aidan Forker was just about the best player we had on show, and gave Murphy no respect at all. He certainly wasn't intimidated by him. Yes he was rugby tackled by Murphy early on and Murphy knew he was wrong as he started shouting immediately at the ref to distract him - clever as it worked! Didn't notice the ball throwing at the end, but they did both shake hands with Barry Cassidy talking to both and Aidan obviously didn't take kindly to what he said.

I'll now concede and join the voices that Geezer has maybe done as much as he can with this team. Not for the reasons others have said, but simply because he's tried [hard] and seems to be static. Whilst acknowledging he has taken us to division 1 which will most likely see him given another extension, at the very least his backroom needs a shake up - real good one. Jim McCorry should maybe stay for his experience, but Denis?? Not sure what he contributes although he's a likeable guy and a county employee, so most likely will stay too! What has Paddy McKeever added? What high level experience has he brought to the table? Same thing with John Toal. These were all great servants to our county and still are, but other than the promotions, we are still hurting today. We always seem to have have a lot of stats people and GPS stuff. What exactly do those people and the equipment add? I know almost all counties use this with similar personnel, but is that what brings the like of Dublin success or is it simply just the players.

Strength and conditioning gets a regular mention, but I think I'm right in saying it's the yoga professional that looks after that. The same lass that was around in '02. Is that a weakness? I'm sure she's good at her job, but is it another area to improve?

Someone from outside the county is the call, but there are some within that know success or at least relative success. Yes the McEntees are great lads and I believe they have something to give. Still not convinced that they would take it on though - at any price! What about the McGilly lad from Annaghmore? He's been successful at Sigerson and also got Moy an All Ireland title. I know he's with Down at the minute, but has he ever been approached?

I don't think Geezer should be run out of town. I'd prefer continuity, but maybe a different voice inside the head, can ignite a spark. Then again, maybe it's a complete emptying of the cupboard and a few new brooms is what is called for. No answers to that, just hurting with disappointment this evening and not because I really thought we would win, but more I thought we'd give a better account of ourselves. A more passionate account. A more proud account. We're a proud, passionate county, but looking at the tanking today and compare that to the last result Donegal got against the neighbours, makes you wonder where the passion and pride was today.

Ah well, we breathe and go again next term! Merry Christmas everyone, wherever you are!
Good post as always. Any criticism is measured and well delivered unlike that of others. Agree with most of it. Don’t agree that McGeeney should go. I’ve been consistent saying it and will keep on saying it. Also the league starts fairly soon and I don’t think now is the best time to change a manager. If we fail miserably in division one then yes. Get rid but I think he deserves the chance to lead us there
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
Very disappointed today. Second and if possible third fiddle in a game that apart from the first five to ten mins we were destroyed. I really believed we cud put it up to them. Didn’t and looked every bit of a team on the end of a 12 point defeat. The problems in Armagh football were cruelly exposed there today.

The problems go much deeper than that what we witnessed. Declan Bonner has worked at underage level with a lot of those Donegal and with a good degree of success I must add. In comparison our record at underage level this past 8 years or so has been abysmal.

Apart from out u 20s reaching a final two years ago it has been very poor and I stand corrected. Every year at u 14 level I have taken county squads to play in blitzs everywhere. Tyrone, Donegal are streets ahead. Basic skills , handling etc much better .

A root and branch review has to be carried out. Some men are doing excellent work but we need to examine why we are not producing enough quality players.

If what I’m doing isn’t what’s required I’ll gladly stand aside and gave way to a better system. I’d be the first one to question it.

Our clubs apart from Cross are way behind at ulster club level and Cross are slipping. It is depressing but back to the match today and I felt that Brendan Donaghy has been humiliated by Kieran McGeeney. Fit and raring to go but hasn’t seen a moment of game time in the last four matches. His physical presence and know how and leadership qualities were sorely missed. I was really looking forward to our journey into Div 1, now I’m not so sure. Anyway roll on late Jan Feb or whenever.
Is Donaghy flying fit? How do you know this? Going by what you have said anybomaywr who is fit but didn’t get a game has been humiliated by McGeeney. I’m sure if Donaghy felt rhat way he would have left the panel. Agree with most of what you say though
 

Big Jim

Well-Known Member
Good post as always. Any criticism is measured and well delivered unlike that of others. Agree with most of it.
Thanks Niall.
Don’t agree that McGeeney should go. I’ve been consistent saying it and will keep on saying it. Also the league starts fairly soon and I don’t think now is the best time to change a manager. If we fail miserably in division one then yes. Get rid but I think he deserves the chance to lead us there
That's a fair enough comment because I'm not convinced it's the right time either, but changes are definitely needed. Maybe it's a "change as good as a rest!" type of thing.

Just strangely very calm about it all. Disappointed yes, but content enough. Obviously not with the result, but for some reason, I'm not annoyed!
 

niall1980

Well-Known Member
Thanks Niall.

That's a fair enough comment because I'm not convinced it's the right time either, but changes are definitely needed. Maybe it's a "change as good as a rest!" type of thing.

Just strangely very calm about it all. Disappointed yes, but content enough. Obviously not with the result, but for some reason, I'm not annoyed!
I know what you mean about not being annoyed. I’m similar myself. Do wish we had performed better but we were never gonna win the game. Shows how much work we need to put in tho.
 

Throwball

Well-Known Member
Very disappointed today. Second and if possible third fiddle in a game that apart from the first five to ten mins we were destroyed. I really believed we cud put it up to them. Didn’t and looked every bit of a team on the end of a 12 point defeat. The problems in Armagh football were cruelly exposed there today.

The problems go much deeper than that what we witnessed. Declan Bonner has worked at underage level with a lot of those Donegal and with a good degree of success I must add. In comparison our record at underage level this past 8 years or so has been abysmal.

Apart from out u 20s reaching a final two years ago it has been very poor and I stand corrected. Every year at u 14 level I have taken county squads to play in blitzs everywhere. Tyrone, Donegal are streets ahead. Basic skills , handling etc much better .

A root and branch review has to be carried out. Some men are doing excellent work but we need to examine why we are not producing enough quality players.

If what I’m doing isn’t what’s required I’ll gladly stand aside and gave way to a better system. I’d be the first one to question it.

Our clubs apart from Cross are way behind at ulster club level and Cross are slipping. It is depressing but back to the match today and I felt that Brendan Donaghy has been humiliated by Kieran McGeeney. Fit and raring to go but hasn’t seen a moment of game time in the last four matches. His physical presence and know how and leadership qualities were sorely missed. I was really looking forward to our journey into Div 1, now I’m not so sure. Anyway roll on late Jan Feb or whenever.

On another thread I mentioned underage before I read your post. From under 8s I have seen numerous coaches more concerned with winning matches than developing players. As well as losing the late developer this also instills bad habits in better players as they are encouraged to put the head down and carry ball, hit the long ball in to the big fella etc..

I have seen a number of underage matches this year. The behaviour of many of the coaches- and consequently the players - in a sizeable portion of those games has been embarrassing. Funnily the best display of 'head up' football and players and coaches encouraging each other was from the club with the best record in the county.

On your other point. If Donaghy is fit as you say it is a black mark against management in my opinion.
 
I have deliberately waited a while before posting to let the head settle.

Donegal are better than us yes - but it was the manner of our defeat today not the defeat itself that is so hard to take.

We were extremely poor and it was an embarassing performance - that is what hurt.

I don't think Kieran will go and I don't think the county board will push him either. I'm also unsure who would replace him to be truthful - there are not too many outstanding candidates out there IMO.

Spare a thought for the players tonight too as they will be hurting - they didn't deliberately under perform and this will really impact some of them.

I agree about our conditioning and will repeat a point I made previous - Julie Davis is getting well paid now for around 7 years and are we getting value for our money?

As I said I can't see Kieran going anywhere so maybe it's time he freshens up his management/backroom team.

I also don't see too many outstanding players at club level who aren't on the present panel - yes there are a couple but not too many. I think the issue is our tactics/coaching not our personnel.

We are not at the same level as Donegal or Dublin (or dare I say Kerry) but we are better than today's performance which is the most fustrating part of it all.
 
Every year at u 14 level I have taken county squads to play in blitzs everywhere. Tyrone, Donegal are streets ahead. Basic skills , handling etc much better .

A root and branch review has to be carried out. Some men are doing excellent work but we need to examine why we are not producing enough quality players.

I do think there are serious issues in our development squads/underage structures and coaching. This has been going on for a few years now and is something that needs addressed at county board level.
 

gar

Member
Is Donaghy flying fit? How do you know this? Going by what you have said anybomaywr who is fit but didn’t get a game has been humiliated by McGeeney. I’m sure if Donaghy felt rhat way he would have left the panel. Agree with most of what you say though
Brendan Donaghy was named at centre half against Roscommon. Also named on the initial team were so to Aaron McKay and jemar hall. Brendan didn’t start nor was he brought on jemar and Aaron were both brought As they didn’t start. In the four matches McGeeney has used nearly all his 26 match panel except Brendan who I say again is fit and raring to go. It is my opinion that he should have been brought on it was pretty obvious but the manager thought otherwise. Brendan is the most senior player in the squad . To not even consider giving him a runnin any of the four games to me in my opinion is humiliating .
 

h754136

Active Member
Deeply disappointing today on several levels. Never expected to win, but it was fair to expect a lot better than that. Not unlike 2015, when Donegal also gave us a harsh reality check. It took us two or three seasons to get moving again after that result - you'd fear a repeat.

Promotion this year was fine, but it is games like today against which you really measure progress. And on that showing there hasn't been very much in recent times. Most frustratingly, we were an absolute rabble from about the 20th minute onwards. To lose to a better team is one things, but to allow the whole show fall apart is something else. That is not the mark of a team really going anywhere.

I don't know what can happen from here. McGeeney will stay on, but what more can he really do? Division One will be extremely challenging. And we won't make up the distance to Donegal (nor probably Tyrone) in Ulster. It's worth noting that we're not a particularly young team, with a lot of key men now knocking about the 30 mark. They probably don't have the time to start again under a different approach. Some talent is trickling through, but not enough - there have been good posts on this subject made by men who know what they're talking about. It's difficult to swallow, but the reality is that we're years, maybe decades, of work away from dining at the top table again.
 
Brendan Donaghy was named at centre half against Roscommon. Also named on the initial team were so to Aaron McKay and jemar hall. Brendan didn’t start nor was he brought on jemar and Aaron were both brought As they didn’t start. In the four matches McGeeney has used nearly all his 26 match panel except Brendan who I say again is fit and raring to go. It is my opinion that he should have been brought on it was pretty obvious but the manager thought otherwise. Brendan is the most senior player in the squad . To not even consider giving him a runnin any of the four games to me in my opinion is humiliating .

If Brendan Donaghy has been fit for the last 4 games then it definitely is a massive mistake by our management not to use him.

Our team was crying out for him and I for one thought he must have been injured and that's why he hasn't featured.

I'm shocked to find he was fully fit all along.
 

OneofTwo

Member
I do think there are serious issues in our development squads/underage structures and coaching. This has been going on for a few years now and is something that needs addressed at county board level.

The development squads/academy are shambles.

Jobs for the boys with little chance for coaches to progress if you haven’t played county football, particularly 2002. The last academy restructure claimed their focus was solely on kids playing schools football at Grammar/Macrory schools and those outside of those probably weren’t good enough. I was astounded. County players brought in when they decide they fancy a bit of coaching regardless of their experience or qualifications. When was the last time we had a minor manager that wasn’t an ex County player as a matter of interest?

It is a separate issue to the senior team but certainly a factor as part of the overall issue.
 
Top